Shootout - Cinemacraft vs MainConcept vs TMPGenc

[arcorob]

Funny, there is no forum called ENCODING

Anyway, I have

Mainconcept
Cinema Craft 2.6 SP
TMPGenc (various including latest)

I generally (how about always) use TMPG because it is what I learned back in the www.vcdhelp.com days. So when I do wedding videos with VEGAS, instead of encoding directly to MPEG, I go back to DV AVI and then MPEG 2 with TMPG (always a CBR of 4500) .

My question, if i setup a shootout, that is use the same clip and encode using all three products, same bitrate, etc., how could I judge the final result as who wins ? Is it all in the eye of the behold or is there some tool that will give me a stat rating ?

I know the question sounds silly but I want to get the MOST picture, the BEST motion, etc from the source to mpeg .

I good example is someone here posted a few pics of how good a different VCR was compared to others. SOME THINGS are noticably different so I will take whatever help I can get.
Steps are not the issue.

Best result are key...Thanks

[adam]

The differences between encoders is going to be completely subjective. Just do samples from each and pick the one that looks best to you.

All the different objective tests must be taken with a grain of salt. Generally lower quantization is good, but this really only holds up when comparing output from the same encoder. When you test between 3 encoders it means very little really. You can look at bitrate curves to ensure that bitrate is being allocated accurately (for CBR it doesn't even apply) but I can tell you that all three of these encoders are going to pretty much act as expected. Things like signal to noise ratios are also completely useless when comparing between different encoders.

Basically the only test that is accurate and meaningful is to just watch it.

Personally, I find it a bit odd that you are bothering to do all this testing when you will get a much more significant quality increase by just using VBR in any of those three encoders. An avg bitrate of 4500kbits is fine for full D1 DV sources, but a max of 4500kbits? DV is some of the most complex footage you can get a hold of. Personally, I wouldn't be satisfied with DV encoded at 4500kbits CBR from any encoder.

[arcorob]

Adam,

Thank you ....and I have to ask, if 4500 CBR is not desirable, what can I use (use terms in regards to TMPGenc which I am most familiar with)

I have tried VBR before with mixed results but I am sure that is a result of my lack of knowledge there.

The average of 4400 or 4500 CBR is because I can then get 2 hours of wedding video on a disk.

Yes, I have seen the guides but I need some standard settings. Generally what I am encoding for 1 disk

1- 45 minute wedding mpeg
1 - 1hr and 10 min reception video
1- 5 minute music video (montage)
Menu has jpeg background and music playing...

Thank you in advance...and let me ask this, if I did go VBR, would it them make a difference ? Or still subjective ?

[RabidDog]

Even with my limited knowledge I would say that you will get a BIG improvement using Vbr over CBR especially as you are using quite a high bitrate. As to which encoder is best..try it and see (also ask opinions of others and use the most difficult source... long fast pans and rapid movement source with dark areas and really bright areas (reception perhaps?) ...

[disturbed1]

A VBR encoding with an avg bitrate of 4500 should take up the same space as a CBR encoding with 4500.

Varible Bitrate does as the name says, varies the bitrate. With VBR you specify 3 settings, min, max, and avg. In the most complex scenes, more bitrate is given to those scenes while giving less bitrate to stale motionless scenes. Less complex scenes are easier to encode, so this saves bitrate for more complex scenes.

You usually obtain higher quality using VBR in the same amount of space used with CBR.

TMPG, CCE, Maniconcept, ProCoder are all high quality encoders. Each person has their own view on which one is "the best"

For TMPG something like Max - 8000, AVG - 4000, MIN 2000 would be a good starting point. TMPG likes it's bitrates in a ration like that, 2:1. It's just funny that way.

For CCE maybe Max 8000, AVG 4000, MIN 500. CCE does have a better bitrate displacemnet so a lower min can be used with multipass encodes without fear of quality loss.

[BJ_M]

8800 high , AVG - 4200, MIN 2000 is good for main concept ..

8800 instead of 8000 for high as MC doesnt seem to hit/avg as high