dvd recorder vs. dvd writer

[thecenter]

hello everyone.
I'm looking into a huge project of transforming more than 1,000 analoge tapes (mainly vhs) and mini dv to DVD.
my question is what is better for this kind of project. the quality and the ability to handle the settings are highly important.
Wether to choose an easy-to-use and fast DVD RECORDER or the safer, better results but slow and clumsy DVD WRITER.

I'd be glad to any suggestion what so ever.
Thanks, Amir.

[JohnnyCNote]

Why not try the stand-alone recorder first, as it would be easier than trying to use a computer and capture card? As long as you get it from a place where you can return it if it doesn't work well, then you should be covered....

[Marco33]

I think you answered you own question.

A dvd recorder is very easy and simple but, a burner gives you more control, Once you get over the learning curve.

I transfered about 20 VHS tapes to DVD. With an initial investment of $300 to do it on the computer, NOT including the burner.

I think it was worth it.

I would jump at a DVD recorder except for one reason. The time limit. With a burner you can sqweeze as much time onto a disk as you want. Usefull for those tapes that are 2 hour and 5 minutes long. With a recorder you are limited (just like a VCR) with the amount of time that can be recorded to disk. I think it's 2 hours.

[Captain Satellite]

I think you answered you own question.

A dvd recorder is very easy and simple but, a burner gives you more control, Once you get over the learning curve.

I transfered about 20 VHS tapes to DVD. With an initial investment of $300 to do it on the computer, NOT including the burner.

I think it was worth it.

I would jump at a DVD recorder except for one reason. The time limit. With a burner you can sqweeze as much time onto a disk as you want. Usefull for those tapes that are 2 hour and 5 minutes long. With a recorder you are limited (just like a VCR) with the amount of time that can be recorded to disk. I think it's 2 hours.

Wrong. Depending on how important quality is to you, you can squeeze as much as six hours on a disc with a stand-alone, although I wouldn't do it. For 2:05 I would use FR mode.

[DereX888]

No matter is quality or amount of time important to you - computer with capture card and dvd burner will always win with standalone recorder.

Last year I used my old "PVR" computer (first Pentium 4 1400MHz, 256MB RDRAM, 40GB hdd, ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 7200) to transfer ~300+ of my family's old VHS, VHS-C, Hi8 and 8mm analog tapes to DVD-Rs, not mentioning my own and my dad's collection of LDs...
Before that I've tried it first with standalone Panasonic, because older dvd-authoring PC software was too time-absorbing to play with, but it just didnt work the way I wanted (when combining few tapes on each disc). Menus were lame, and quality was visibly worse when I used LP mode (compared to computer capturing at lower bitrates).
But it all changed when wonderful TMPGEnc DVD-Author appeared, I immediately set my own recording template on ATI's MultiMediaCenter (software for ATI A-I-W Radeon) with slightly modified specs (MPEG-2 VBR with avg. 7Mbps/max.9Mbps, audio MPEG-1 LayerII 320kbps) and I captured all of my stuff on computer. Creating proper dvd files with TMPG DVD-Author is quick, and I dont worry when after adding few captured tape files total dvd size comes out too big to fit on DVD-R, I just run it later through DVD2One to make it fit. And still the quality of such disc is visibly much, much better quality than probably any of the LP-mode recordings on any standalone dvd recorder.

With few tapes I would just go for standalone recorder, but since you have ~1000 tapes to be transferred to DVDs then I'd definitly would use computer.

One tip: no matter what you'll use (standalone or computer) don't go into editing them old tapes! Just capture/record them as is, one by one, or you'll *never* finish transferring them, trust me

[Marco33]

I think you answered you own question.

A dvd recorder is very easy and simple but, a burner gives you more control, Once you get over the learning curve.

I transfered about 20 VHS tapes to DVD. With an initial investment of $300 to do it on the computer, NOT including the burner.

I think it was worth it.

I would jump at a DVD recorder except for one reason. The time limit. With a burner you can sqweeze as much time onto a disk as you want. Usefull for those tapes that are 2 hour and 5 minutes long. With a recorder you are limited (just like a VCR) with the amount of time that can be recorded to disk. I think it's 2 hours.

Wrong. Depending on how important quality is to you, you can squeeze as much as six hours on a disc with a stand-alone, although I wouldn't do it. For 2:05 I would use FR mode.

That's why I used the words "I think" instead of " I know".

No need to shout.

[glockjs]

if you have a descent computer get a burner(like said control). if your computer isnt up to date and dont feel like upgrading, definately get a standalone...

[mmasw]

what nobody has mentioned is that you better be a very young fella if you plan on moving 1000 tapes onto your PC via a capture card, do some editing, apply some filters, and then author the results as dvd, followed by the burn and testing......you better be young, because you'll be old when you are done.

This will take a lot of time....especially, for example, if you choose to use DV as the capture codec. While it is easier to edit, you then will have an encoding phase adding to the overall time.

If you decide to go with a pc conversion process you may want to consider a capture card that has realtime MPEG-2 capture ability as that will save a lot of time. But then MPEG-2 is much more of a challenge to edit then any avi codec. Most people will also claim that a dv > mpg-2 process will yield a better result. I think the quality difference is negligible when the source is VHS tape.

I've converted many vhs tapes to dvd. I capture direct to mpg-2 using an ATI AIW Video card. And I then use TMPGEnc DVD Author to create the dvd's (somtimes Ulead's MF2).

For example: say you have 4 episodes of The Rockford Files on 2 VHS tapes recorded in SP mode. I use this as an example since I've done this actual project

Because the quality of the source (std vhs recording from analog signal) is average at best, I determined that I wanted to get all 4 episodes on 1 dvd. Some people say never go less then Half D-1 (352 X 480) resolution, but I chose to anyway, so I set the capture at 352 X 240. Without the commercials the episodes are about 45 minutes each, so I set my bitrate at 2750 Kbs CBR. This rate will also allow the extra space on the dvd for menus.

Now I originally did some test comparisons. I melded some high action/low action/dark/bright scenes together and did a couple of test dvd's on rw discs....one at the parameters listed above and another at full dvd 6000Kbs 708 X 480 resolution to try and determine the qualitative difference. After about an hour, and viewing from a foot away on a 32" Sony 4:3 CRT, I was able to determine that the latter capture which was 125% 'bigger" was about 2% better. The vhs analog source will only yield a certain level of quality to digital video no matter what the bitrate or resolution.

Anyway, the dvd looks fine....about equal, maybe a bit better then the vhs tape, and I have motion menu's as well. Between the capture program and the author program, I am able to do sufficient editing of the video.

But overall, that project probably ate up 10 hours of my life....a rather questionable investment of my time. It's a "valuable" dvd if I could only find a market for it.....and not get sued by James Garner.

So, by extrapolation, your 1000 tapes could have 2500 hours of video and it will take you about 17 years to finish...and thats consecutive time. If you figure about 4 hours a day. 7 days a week. you'll be done in 102 years....

103 years if you actually bothered to read this seemingly endless reply to your simple question.

....sorry....too much high octane coffee this morning.

[movie freak]

i have a capture card and a dvd burner in my pc, i also have a standalone dvd recorder, i tried transferring the video tapes to pc using the capture card, this was really difficult because you have to know quite alot about what you are doing.
The dvd recorders are very easy and good to use. I have a philips DVDR75. and i just press play on the tape and record on the dvd recorder, very simple, i can even make my own menu's and thumbnails for the menu. Very Cool.

[hech54]

I have both a Philips recorder and a computer burner. I went out and bought myself some +RW discs to record to in my Philips...rip them to my PC and edit....OR....leave it on the +RW disc and edit right on the disc with Ulead Movie Factory 2.
MF2 has some problems and the "Edit Disc" function is really all that software is good for....but it works MOST of the time.
If MF2 fails....I turn to good old TMPGEnc DVD Author.

[coyote]

One last option is to opt for both. I think the HP External +RW acts as an external dvd burner, but also allows you to plug your sources directly into it and hit one button to burn it to dvd without going through the pc. If the quality isn't up to what you like, you can then do the PC option without having to buy new equipment.

[TheFamilyMan]

Unless your planning on making this your life's work, get a standalone recorder. Many people at this site like the panasonic E50 since it has a TBC (time based corrector), video noise reduction and lots of recording options. A VCR with with a TBC and video noise reduction, such a the JVC sr-v10u, will also help immensly with the quality. This two units together (~$600 US) should produce top rate quality with minimal hassle. With VHS source, video noise reduction and a TBC are an absolute must for digital conversions.

[tag]

Many people at this site like the panasonic E50 since it has a TBC (time based corrector), video noise reduction and lots of recording options. A VCR with with a TBC and video noise reduction, such a the JVC sr-v10u, will also help immensly with the quality. This two units together (~$600 US) should produce top rate quality with minimal hassle. With VHS source, video noise reduction and a TBC are an absolute must for digital conversions.

Stupid question, perhaps, but why is it necessary to have **2** TBC's? I mean, isn't it overkill to have stuff like TBC, DNR, etc., on a machine that's feeding another machine with almost the exact same features?

[K2]

I have done 250 with a dvd writer but 1000?...... I would get a dvd recorder immediately.

[lordsmurf]

@tag, no, not if they work differently.

I opted for the 3-way option. Two cap card systems AND a standalone. Each is useful for it's own thing.

[tag]

@tag, no, not if they work differently.

I opted for the 3-way option. Two cap card systems AND a standalone. Each is useful for it's own thing.

TheFamilyMan suggested a JVC sr-v10u. Would that unit combined with a Panasonic E60 or Sony GX7 yield decent quality (or better, hopefully) DVDs? (consider I'm sort of looking to spend under a couple of grand here).

[thecenter]

hi !
thanks all for the suggestions.
I know 1000 tapes seems a lot, that's way it is an important question, actually speed vs. quality.
At this moment, I'm more convinsed towards a cumputer with a burner. after all, I just heard that there's gonna be a dvd with 20GB, so there's something to wait for.

[Sam Ontario]

hi !
thanks all for the suggestions.
I know 1000 tapes seems a lot, that's way it is an important question, actually speed vs. quality.
At this moment, I'm more convinsed towards a cumputer with a burner.

If you are already familiar or good at computer with a DVD burner for the VHS to DVD, you should wait until the DVD Recorders mature. If you do not have plenty of time for the 1000 VHS, go for the DVD Recorder. Its always a pain to get things work for you from scratch using computer with a DVD burner.

[BowlPacker]

Another consideration is do you want to use the PC for anything else? When transferring old 8mm camcorder tapes to DVD last year, the PC was pretty much off limits for several hours a day while capturing. If you capture to AVI (DV, MJPEG, etc) then encode to MPEG-2, then there's another couple of hours. Although you can technically use your PC during the encode process, it can be a little bogged down, and I was always paranoid I'd make a wrong move in Windows and lock the PC up and have to start all over.

[normando]

I thought I would offer one other inexpensive alternative.

I recently picked up one of OfficeMax's KHyperMedia 8X +R burners for $69 after rebate after I read that it was actually a BenQ DW800A.
http://www.benq-eu.com/Products/DVDRewriter/index.cfm?product=373

Well I found out that they have a program called Qvideo on their website that allows you to burn directly from a DV camcorder onto a +R or +RW disc via firewire. It even creates menu screens with thumbnails. You can record several clips onto one disc.
http://www.benq-eu.com/ServiceAndSupport/Drivers/drivers.cfm?product=573

If you would purchase this drive and an inexpensive DV Bridge box, you could have yourself a makeshift DVD Recorder with all of the flexibility of a DVD 8X +R burner. The DV bridge box allows you to plug in your composite video or s-video and audio into it and it exports this info to your computer through a firewire cable.

This drive is an absolute steal. You can buy a firmware upgrade for $10 that converts it into a dual burner. I don't see any need for the upgrade now that +R discs are affordable and can burn at 8X. I have been burning Memorex 4X +R (Ricoh-JPN) discs at 8X that I got on sale a month ago for $1 each from BestBuy.

Oh yeah... this drive rips much faster than the Plextor 708A (using the hold the eject button in until it flashes 3 times trick).