MPG2 vs AVI capture quality using AIW

[randytsuch]

Hi guys,
Newbie here .
I just put together a new PC, using a 9600pro AIW card. Running a P4 at 3.2G, so speed is not an issue. Have 60 and 80G hard drives.

Was wondering if anybody has compared capturing to MPG2, versus capturing to uncompressed AVI, and then using something like TMPGENC to convert to MPG2?

I am capturing 8mm home video tapes I have made in the last 7 or so years.

Using 480x720 resolution, so my AVI files are HUGE, around 1 gig per minute. This seems kind of big to me, but I searched and saw somebody say that was about what you should get. Just doing the math, (480 x 720 x 29.97 x time), I get it should be around 40g per hour.

So now, I either need to capture to MPG2, get a bigger HD so I could at least capture a two hour tape at one time, or lower my resolution.

Since I am archiving my tapes to DVD, I am trying my best to lose as little as possible during the process of capturing/converting.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Randy

[gf]

Hi randytsuch,
I have a Canopus DVStorm2 card. It has a hardware encoder on board, also it lets you capture in avi mode also. Now to answer your question. If you want to do a fast capture (no editing, minimal work) capture in MPEG format. If you want to edit a video or have better compression control and better quality, capture in avi mode and then do a SOFTWARE conversion to MPEG later. Yea the size is huge but the results are worth it. On my system I have 3 drives, 2) 30 GB 7200 rpm Western Digital drives as a raid0 setup. I capture to these drives then move the video to my C: drive where I edit it and convert it to my MPEG format.

Steve

[non-linear]

I capture using the MPEG2 format, using 8Mbps CBR, and I re-encode to normally a 6Mbps file in TMPGEnc and get very good results. I think you can capture up to 10Mbps MPEG2 in the ATI Multimedia Center program. I use MPEG2 because AVI just takes too much space. Although I could choose a different codec to yield a smaller file, I get great results with this, so why bother with AVI?

[randytsuch]

I capture using the MPEG2 format, using 8Mbps CBR, and I re-encode to normally a 6Mbps file in TMPGEnc and get very good results. I think you can capture up to 10Mbps MPEG2 in the ATI Multimedia Center program. I use MPEG2 because AVI just takes too much space. Although I could choose a different codec to yield a smaller file, I get great results with this, so why bother with AVI?

Hi non-linear,
Thanks for feedback. But I was wondering why you capture at 8Mbps, and use TMPGEnc to encode down to 6? Is there a reason why not just capture at 6? Sorry if this is a silly question, but I only started playing with this stuff a couple of months ago, and there's a lot to learn here.

Hi Steve,
You reminded me of one reason to stay in AVI, so I can edit things. But I have heard of MPG editors that let you edit just as much as you can in the AVI world. I guess I need to look at those some more if I really want to capture in to MPG2. Otherwise, I will probably get a 160G sata drive for video capture.

Randy

[Zetti]

I've made tests using an AiW card, go directly to MPEG-2 if you don't intend to do any editing later;

BTW, cutting comercials out isn't actually editing, so you might go to MPEG2 as well if that's the case

Zetti

[syeager]

I have an AIW and I capture in mpeg at a high bit rate ( usually 6000 or 8000 ) and use a good editing program ( like Ulead VideoStudio 6 or 7 ) that will allow editing with minimal or no rerendering. Very fast and great quality.

Ultimately, the best quality is supposed to be available by capturing avi and using a good program, such as TMPGENC, to get the best and smallest mpeg2. However, that takes a huge amount of disk space and a lot of time to reencode.

Good luck.

[Tommyknocker]

1G/minute? DV usually runs around 5 minutes/Gig. If your camera can transfer via firewire, maybe you should look into that, as it usually gives the better quality.

[You_Are_Alive]

DV compression is fixed at 3.5MB/s. If concerned about drive space and quality, then keep your settings to capture DV AVI. Then edit, and finally use your favorite encoder for final output.

[tigerman8u]

I have the AIW 9000 pro. IMO I can't see any difference in quality capturing to avi or mpeg2. I always capture to mpeg2 and use TMPGenc DVD Author then nero to burn. Has worked great for me.

[randytsuch]

Hi guys,
Thanks for all the advice.
Few things.
I may be a newbie, but I know cutting is not the same as editing .
I was actually only adding captions to some videos before, which is nice but not that big of a deal if I lose.

I have ulead videostudio DV 5.0, so I am not sure if that edits mpg or not. Will give it a try soon.

In my old setup, I was downloading from my old camera, through my new DV camera, via firewire to my PC. With my new setup, since I got a AIW9600, I can hook my old camera directly to the AIW card for capturing.
I did notice the files were a lot smaller when I downloaded through firewire, but I do not know what the difference is. Anybody know what the setting difference is for DV? I'll see if I can figure it out, but for DV, the program I used did not allow me to change much, so I just used it.

I will also try an mpg2 capture as soon as I get a change, and see what it looks like.

Thanks again,
Randy

[non-linear]

Hi non-linear,
Thanks for feedback. But I was wondering why you capture at 8Mbps, and use TMPGEnc to encode down to 6? Is there a reason why not just capture at 6? Sorry if this is a silly question, but I only started playing with this stuff a couple of months ago, and there's a lot to learn here.

I capture at a higher bitrate than my final output because I know that when TMPGEnc reencodes, I will lose some quality, as MPEG is a lossy format. By using a higher bitrate in capturing, then the quality loss when it's reencoded will not be noticeable or as noticeable (to me anyways).

[indolikaa]

I have captured AVI and MPEG-2 from my ATI AIW 9000 Pro, and done exactly what you are asking to compare the results myself.

I saw very little difference, but if I had to pick a better encoder it would be the TMPGEnc engine. However, the ATI quality is such that I only use TMPGEnc for 'non-standard' conversions or PAL authoring. When I finally get off my lazy ass and put together a Xeon HT system I'll reevaluate, but until then nobody has ever complained about my ATI captures, so I see no need to change horses.

Standard disclaimer applies, of course.

.indolikaa.

Standard Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are those of Indolikaa Khan and are in no way backed by scientific or religious convictions. I calls them as I sees them. You're entitled to your own opinion and that's fine with me. Well all have the right to disagree. If you can understand and accept this philosophy, you've earned my respect. If you can't, **** off.

[randytsuch]

I have captured AVI and MPEG-2 from my ATI AIW 9000 Pro, and done exactly what you are asking to compare the results myself.

I saw very little difference, but if I had to pick a better encoder it would be the TMPGEnc engine. However, the ATI quality is such that I only use TMPGEnc for 'non-standard' conversions or PAL authoring. When I finally get off my lazy ass and put together a Xeon HT system I'll reevaluate, but until then nobody has ever complained about my ATI captures, so I see no need to change horses.

Standard disclaimer applies, of course.

.indolikaa.

Indolikaa,
wondering if you could share what settings you use for your mpeg captures, did you use the "lordsmurf" settings?

Non linear,
I guess I still don't understand why you need to use TMPGenc. Can't you just take your MPG2 files, and use a DVD author program, to make the DVD? That's what I was planning to do.

Randy

[non-linear]

Non linear,
I guess I still don't understand why you need to use TMPGenc. Can't you just take your MPG2 files, and use a DVD author program, to make the DVD? That's what I was planning to do.

Randy

I never use the mpeg files from capture straight to DVD for a few reasons. First, I always do some cutting (cut out commercials, trimming beginning and end of video, etc), as well as tweak the video levels, chroma, audio levels, etc. I use DVD-Lab to author, so I have to have the final files to import.

If your captured mpeg is fine, then you can use that material for authoring.