LSX MPEG Encoder better then TMPGEnc?

[Guiboche]

I recently downloaded a copy of LSX MPEG Encoder v3.5 (the latest) and to my amazement, I found it to be a better encoder then both TMPGEnc and Panasonic.

To test it out I encoded a 3 minute sequence from "Run Lola Run." LSX did a fantastic job of handling the extreme fast motion through out the entire sequence. After encoding the same sequence with TMPGEnc 12h I found that it created a lot more macroblocks than LSX. The same sequence encoded with Panasonic also created more blocks than LSX.

I have uploaded 2 second clips of each encoder. Look at the sidewalk and the cars that pass by on the street. LSX has the least amount of blocks and produces a better image. These are all encoded using the NTSCFilm VCD Standard. What do you all think?

LSX MPEG Encoder v3.5:
http://www.escape.ca/~guiboche/lsxmpeg.mpg
Best quality, least amount of blocks.

TMPGEnc 12h:
http://www.escape.ca/~guiboche/tmpgenc.jpg
Very good quality, but more macroblocks then LSX.

Panasonic:
http://www.escape.ca/~guiboche/panasonic.jpg
Good quality. Less macroblocks than TMPGEnc, but more than LSX. I was never really a fan of this encoder though for it’s awful color tone correction and color bleeding.

[Greg12]

However, LSX costs $$$

TMPG is free

[Rene]

agree.
Same findings here.
Additionally, Ligos is 30% faster (my unscientific estimate).
In my view, TMPGenc still is the best in clarity.
Ciao!
Rene

[vitualis]

I'm still constantly surprised by comments of Panasonic MPEG Encoder's "terrible colour correction".

Just leave the Panasonic MPEG Encoder on its default settings (i.e., the colour correction to PC -- which actually means no colour correction is done at all). The resulting MPEG has colour fidelity as good as any other MPEG encoder.

Regards.

[Belboz]

Those last two links have jpg extensions when you meant for it to be mpg.

Just thought you might want to know. I still grabbed them though.

I agree in your tests the lsx version does look the best.

Did you do much "tweaking" to the settings on all three encoders? Or go with the defaults?

[Guiboche]

These were each encoded on all their optimal settings. I did try a "reduce block noise" for TMPGEnc, but it didn't change the quality very much, so I just left that option out.

And even though you choose "PC" for color correction on the Panasonic encoder it still makes the final file a lot more darker then the source.

[pdaldegan]

What would those optimal settings be, exactly?

[Guiboche]

Here are the complete settings:

For TMPGEnc:

Video tab

Stream type: MPEG-1 Video
--------------------------------------
Size: 352x240
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 525 line (NTSC)
Frame rate: 23.976
--------------------------------------
Rate control mode: Constant bitrate (CBR)
Bit rate: 1150:
VBV buffer size: 40
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Motion search precision: Highest quality (very slow)


Advanced tab

Video source type: Interlace
Field order Top field first (field A)
Source aspect ratio 4:3 525 line (NTSC, 704x480)
--------------------------------------
Video arrange Method: Full screen


Gop structure tab:
IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBP
Number of I picture in GOP: 1
Number of P picture in GOP: 5
Number of B picture in GOP: 2
Output interval of sequence header: 1

(Checked) Output bitstream for edit (Closed GOP)
(Unchecked) Detect Scene Change
(Unchecked) Force picture type setting


Quantize Matrix tab:

Default
--------------------------------------
(Unchecked) Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr not CCIR601
(Checked) Use floating point DCT
(Unchecked) No Motion search for still picture part by half pixel
--------------------------------------
(Unchecked) Soften block noise


For LSX MPEG v3.5

MPEG-1 (with VCD Option selected)
Frame Rate: 23.976

Everything else was on default except for “Gop Sequence” which I changed to I=1, B=5, P=2

Everything was default for VCD NTSC on the Panasonic encoder.

[vitualis]

Guiboche,

You've used NTSC-FILM for TMPGEnc and LSX, but if you just chose the NTSC-VCD setting for the Panasonic encoder, then you would have gotten a frame rate of 29.97. Did you change it manually to 23.976?

If not, then the test is not fair. NTSC-FILM has a relative higher bitrate per frame compared to NTSC of 25%, which is a massive difference for MPEG-1 at VCD bitrates.

OK, downloaded your clip and this is not an issue...

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>And even though you choose "PC" for color correction on the Panasonic encoder it still makes the final file a lot more darker then the source.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

You are using v2.51? From my experience, the colour fidelity is VERY good with the Panasonic encoder. If it looks much darker, I would strongly suggest that to be due to some sort of playback/display artifact.

The true test should be with all three clips burnt onto a VCD and viewed on a good quality TV -- preferably double-blinded.

Regards.

_________________
Michael Tam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitualis on 2001-07-17 06:32:21 ]</font>

[Lamont Cranston]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-17 05:58:36, Guiboche wrote:
For LSX MPEG v3.5

MPEG-1 (with VCD Option selected)
Frame Rate: 23.976

Everything else was on default except for “Gop Sequence” which I changed to I=1, B=5, P=2
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you increase the B frames for higher compresson only?

I have the LSX35 encoder and I would rate TMPGEnc equal to or better in image quality (sharpness, blocking, artifacts). However, the LSX encoder can't encode DV type 1 video only DV type 2 video and it can't resample the audio. If you transcode DV video type 1 to type 2 your audio will be 48khz. TMPGEnc can do it all.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lamont Cranston on 2001-07-17 06:49:23 ]</font>

[vitualis]

Guiboche,

I've had a look at your clips... From those samples, you're right! The LSX encoder in this case seems to be clearly ahead.

Did you use "PC" setting for the colour on the Panasonic encoder? Although the Panasonic clip wasn't as sharp and had more blocking than the LSX clip, the colour was almost identical to that of the LSX clip (I did a few frame captures and merged the frames together as different layers -- using "difference&quot.

Regards.

[Guiboche]

The reason I increased B frames to 5 was so it was the same as TMPG and Pansonic's settings (althought I believe Panasonic's B frames is 4 now that I look).

And also, I used PC setting for the Panasonic v2.51 enocoder, yes.

[TOMMO]

In my humble opinion TEMPEnc beats the lot. After reading this post I went immediately to the Ligo page downloaded the software.

No good to me with a Miro DC30 i'm a afraid.

[Hans Herbert]

What Please ???
LSX is GREAT SHIT !!!
HO,HO VIDEO LAMER !!!
TempEnc is Slow , is the Very Best !
Do have NOTHING SEE QUALITY !!!!!
LSX - HA,HA,HO,HO !