RIAA losing the war, pushing swappers onto encrypted nets

[DaBarrister]

From BusinessWeek online:

"Big Music's Worst Move Yet - The RIAA's newest legal assault on file swappers is pushing them to encrypted networks, where the damage could become catastrophic

The music file-swapping masses got a fresh jolt of fear on Jan. 21 when the Recording Industry Association of America filed 532 lawsuits against alleged copyright infringers for downloading or sharing pirated tunes on the Internet. The suits made good on the RIAA's promise in December not to skip a beat in its legal war against music piracy. ...

One has to admit: The RIAA sure is tenacious in pursuing its strategy. What it doesn't seem to realize, though, is that it has already lost the war (see BW Online, 1/16/04, "Did Big Music Really Sink the Pirates?"). The recording industry's hardball tactics have fueled a technological shift that'll make it nearly impossible to pursue file swappers in the future.

How so? The culture of fear and loathing that the RIAA has created is starting to put encryption on the must-have list of every Joe and Jane Internet user. The results will be wide-ranging and will pose a threat to the movie industry, the software industry, and just about any other industry involved with the creation and sale of intellectual property."

Original article here: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2004/tc20040127_2819_tc047.htm

[GizmoTheGremlin]

That's a pretty interesting read.

In the end, large chunks of computing and the Internet will go behind a much stronger curtain of anonymity, and the pirates will remain untouchable underground -- thanks to the RIAA's misguided legal missiles.

Probably just means the RIAA will have to pay more for decrypting, etc..., then they'll just sue people for even more money to cut their increased losses.

But who knows, hopefully this will spur up some better ideas from the RIAA than suing their customers. I personally think that the iTunes was a step in the right direction.

[DaBarrister]

But who knows, hopefully this will spur up some better ideas from the RIAA than suing their customers. I personally think that the iTunes was a step in the right direction.

I agree. Computers and networks are here to stay. The music and video industries need to use it rather than fight it. The big winner will be the one who can figure out exactly how to use the technology. In that regard, iTunes is a step in the right direction.

[pacmania_2001]

I think the big winners in this "war" are the lawyers, the anti-piracy services companies and like mentioned above, the ones that can apply the new technology like iTunes.

It's inevitable that such a move happened. Just look at the evolution from Napster (broken downloads, single sources etc) to the clients we have today in programs like Kazaa with multiple sources and resuming. Technology is always a step ahead in this battle, the sooner the RIAA and MPAA realise that the sooner they can actually start to defeat this matter.

The RIAA especially has it hard in the piracy battle because their product is much easier to pirate and implement controls on then say the MPAA.

[DaBarrister]

I think the big winners in this "war" are the lawyers, the anti-piracy services companies and like mentioned above, the ones that can apply the new technology like iTunes.

So far, I'd say the big winners have been the pirates.

That said, I'd agree with the "lawyers" part. Heck, I'm a lawyer and I don't particularly like most of my fellow lawyers, either. :P

[BJ_M]

interisting read, maybe it will end up as in a large asian country right now - that if you use encryption , it is assumed you are doing somthing bad (and its not legal to use any encryption method other than a goverment appored one - in whcih they can decode as they have the keys)... this is true btw ..... so you WILL get arrested there ...

in fact on cnn today (and this is only one small part)
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/01/27/bc.rights.china.internet.reut/index.html

[pacmania_2001]

So far, I'd say the big winners have been the pirates.

Touche

I'm indifferent though as to whether piracy is an issue on such a scale it is made out to be. Whilst not to justify it I have to wonder if those that download movies and songs would actually purchase/view those products if they couldn't get them for free.

[housepig]

I have to wonder if those that download movies and songs would actually purchase/view those products if they couldn't get them for free.

dingdingdingdingding!

we have a winner!

most of the stuff I've downloaded in the past has been stuff that I wouldn't pay for at the prices offered... or it has been try-out material that led me to go out and buy the album.

..or stuff that's difficult to find except at eBay collector-scum prices....

I tend to look at it more like the days when I was taping stuff off the radio. they should make a low-bitrate, legal download site, and cram ads on it. I would gladly click through a dozen ads and dig through a site festooned with banners to legally download stuff.

maybe that should be a new model - 2 low-bit downloads for every ad you click through.

[Rookie64]

Most of the stuff I've downloaded in the past has been stuff that I couldn't pay for because they weren't offered at any prices.

There have been many many times I went searching high and low for my favorite songs/albums/artists in every music outlet online and off, and you know, the RIAA just makes it impossible when they won't release or reissue the stuff that I'm ever so willing to pay for.


I think out of the piracy came a lot of good - I'm now finally seeing more and more reissues of stuff I've been waiting on end for, for *years*

It's about time the RIAA realizes that not everyone is interested in the latest Britney Spears or Eminem album.
Wow, I had the opportunity to download all those songs for free, but guess what....I don't want those songs.
You'd have to pay me to waste my time on them.

Not to mention it can be quite time consuming trying to download on a 56k dial-up...not everyone has a high speed Internet connection, ya know.

Download movies? I wouldn't even attempt such a thing - would be a nightmare to think of how long that would take for even a short one.
And ya get crappy quality compared to a nice DVD that includes great extras not offered in the pirate version.

The Pirates are winning?
Does the RIAA ever take into account the high risks of computer viruses that can and are transferred in with these downloads?
Or how many hard drives have been erased because of these virus attacks and how many people that aren't aware of them.
How may of those files have been backed up - not everyone owns a CD writer or a burner.
What about the media used to back the files up, if the files were backed up? Do they assume all burns were successful and that the media used will last very long?
I often read and hear about all the CD-Rs that have gone bad in less than a month...heck, it's happened to me quite a few times.

Ever stop to think of the quality of those pirated songs? The birates of each...faulty or incomplete files.
Songs recorded from poor quality sources...how 'bout a song from the '70s that was ripped from a scratchy vinyl record or a song drowned in tape hiss?
I have all the snap crackles and pops to prove it

They also assume the pirates can download any song they wish - I don't think so.
Otherwise, I wouldn't have to still be buying my music.

Have I bought more or less music in the last two years?
Well, I've been a pretty serious music collector for years, and guess what...I actually bought more CDs in less than two years than I've bought music in any format in any previous year - imagine that!
Not only that, but I even bought a lot of the same albums I previously owned on vinyl, and paid twice as much the price for the upgraded quality.

Why would I do such a thing, one may ask?
Well, I happen to prefer my music in the best available sound quality...it just sounds a whole lot better.


Would I pay .99 per song from itunes? I think not!
Duh...I don't think it takes Eienstein to do the math and calculate that you actually save money by buying the album itself than paying 99 cents per track on the album to download.
Don't have any use or interest in iTunes - if others do, fine, it's their choice.
But I fail to see how the RIAA thinks that will combat music piracy, when in fact they're making people pay more for their music and giving them less quality than they were before the Napster/Kazaa/P2P craze caught on
Not when Half.com and record bins are just around the corner.


As I've said in other threads before, the record companies have always had the upper hand in all this, and they still do.
They just don't get what the music fans want - more so, they don't listen to what the fans continue to ask for.


Now here's something the RIAA needs to take note of -

Rhino Records (an Independent label) is reissuing, remastering and remixing the following Fleetwood Mac albums...and including alternate takes and several unreleased tracks

There are countless bootlegs of this stuff that's been in wide circulation for years...and even more stuff surfacing each day.
Most of it can easily be found online and downloaded for free from fan sites.

It's these same sites that are advertising the release of the remastered releases.
The new releases will contain stuff that even the bootleggers haven't gotten ahold of -

From The Mac's Official Website...
We can confirm that the street date for the reissues of Rumours, Fleetwood Mac & Tusk is 3/23/04. Each historic album digitally remastered and expanded with rarities. Deluxe packages feature restored LP art, previously unseen archival photos, extensive new liner notes and complete lyrics.

1975 FLEETWOOD MAC, the realigned band’s #1 debut album, is a quintuple-platinum smash! Original track listing now expanded with bonus single versions of the hits “”Say You Love Me,” “Rhiannon,” “Over My Head,” and “Blue Letter.”

19-time platinum in the U.S. alone, RUMOURS is the sixth-biggest-selling album of all time, with sales upward of 30 million worldwide. 1977’s Grammy® winner for Album Of The Year, it spent 31 weeks at #1 and delivered four Top 10 hits. Specially packaged reissue now an expanded 2-CD edition with 18 unreleased tracks!

1979’s experimental double-platinum TUSK, newly restored to its original 2-CD format, is now inside a specially redesigned package and includes 21 unreleased tracks! Bonus tracks include a wealth of rare demos and alternative takes plus the restored, unedited, full LP version of the Stevie Nicks classic “Sara.”

Guess who will be first in line to buy all of these CDs come 3/23/04
8)


Too bad Warner Bros. had no interest in taking the time to do this for the Mac fans...and even more unfortunate that the band members themselves wanted very little to do with the reissues (but the guys who put this all together needed their OK on it to make it happen...one of the reasons this project has taken so long).


Let's see, Remastering older albums...releasing alternate mixes and unreleased tracks....including an attractive package loaded with liner notes, rare pictures and other cool stuff.

DVD-A albums with multi channels


What a concept

The fans have been begging for this stuff for years...we should be thanking the pirates for making this possible, 'cause if it weren't for them, well, we'd still be left with less music (that the major labels would still be milking the fans for), less quality and not much else :P

So, last year I was thrilled to finally be able to get the first two long time out of print Mi-Sex albums reissued as one CD (now if I can only get the next two...crossing fingers for this year)
All the 70s/80s Blondie albums remastered/reissued with extras
and the Patti Smith Box Set with live material, demos and unreleased tracks...all remastered.
A handful of Melanie Safka CDs with a few (not as many as I'd hoped for though) original studio tracks remastered (most of which I discovered through P2P) I am happy to now own without the scratches....and should add are now out of print once again.
Those among a few others.

This year, I get to look forward to Fleetwood Mac remasters...and hoping for more.


Anyway, this is tired old subject, and I was just gonna pass it on by, but decided to put in my two cents, 'cause these are usually the points that are overlooked when this sort of thing gets into a debate.



For every bad thing, something good has come out of it...and if bad brings me something good, then...I want to be bad -- Pia Zadora

[j1d10t]

they should make a low-bitrate, legal download site, and cram ads on it. I would gladly click through a dozen ads and dig through a site festooned with banners to legally download stuff.

maybe that should be a new model - 2 low-bit downloads for every ad you click through.

That would be (really) nice, but I doubt it would ever happen, simply because it makes sense. And if they did, then they can't sue 12 year olds for millions of dollars... It would take all the "sport" out of it :P

You have to think about the mentality of the RIAA (and the MPAA, for that matter). If something makes sense, of course they're not going to do it!

[housepig]

Would I pay .99 per song from itunes? I think not!
Duh...I don't think it takes Eienstein to do the math and calculate that you actually save money by buying the album itself than paying 99 cents per track on the album to download.

sure... if you want the whole album. but for someone who wants, for example, "Steal My Sunshine" from Len, but not the rest of their crappy album, 99 cents for one song I'll listen to beats $5.00 from the used bin for one song I'll listen to and 16 songs I won't....

[adam]

Yeah I don't really see this as changing anything, it will just up the stakes.

But the author of that article sounds pretty ridiculous to me. It makes it out to seem like the RIAA brought this on themselves and that now they are helpless against pirating and will be unable to prosecute anyone in the future ...well they did bring it on themselves but if they had never sued anyone in the first place then how would they have been any better off? Well besides the fact that the average consumer wouldn't hate them of course, the point is that not suing and not being able to sue result in the same thing.

[tigerman8u]

What does RIAA really stand for
Recklessly
Inditing
Average
Americans

[adam]

Close but I think the first A stands for adolescent.

[fritzi93]

I like Housepig's idea, at least it's a constructive suggestion. I'd personally pay to download rare music, but I'd like a high bitrate option too.

I had an LP of the Electric Prunes, Mass in F minor, bought it in '67. It got stolen and for 30+ years, couldn't find a replacement. A few years ago I finally got it via file-sharing. But guess what, the quality stinks. This seems to be an opportunity tailor-made for the RIAA, they don't have to reissue something that'll have very low sales, they just need a database. Lots of folks would like to find some of those moldy-oldies, forgotten tunes from the grooveyard. Sales would add up.

The RIAA will sooner or later have to come to terms with the new technology and find ways to adapt their business model. Opportunities will be where they find them. This anti-pirating effort has a lot of downside: expense, bad public relations, etc. And the upside? Dunno, but I don't think it'll work in the long run.

JMHO

[canadateck]

I read in my local Computer shop that there is a TAX of some kind on all blank media sold and brought into the country. who's that taxed money going to? although I don't download music or movies, I like collecting DVD original's, and make a back up of each one, so they get, assuming the "mpaa" My money for the original DVD then Some tax money from the Blank DVD-r's that I buy. and most DVD's that I would love to buy they wont put on DVD..... They have money comming from everywhere!! Lost my train of thought, they Make me sooo F*** Mad....

[BJ_M]

I read in my local Computer shop that there is a TAX of some kind on all blank media sold and brought into the country. who's that taxed money going to? although I don't download music or movies, I like collecting DVD original's, and make a back up of each one, so they get, assuming the "mpaa" My money for the original DVD then Some tax money from the Blank DVD-r's that I buy. and most DVD's that I would love to buy they wont put on DVD..... They have money comming from everywhere!! Lost my train of thought, they Make me sooo F*** Mad....

in canada -- and in usa on some media only

see here for more info ... https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=791693#791693

[canadateck]

I guess thats why it's legal in canada "For now" to download Music, "not upload" because, we are Really Paying for it. LOL

[BJ_M]

I guess thats why it's legal in canada "For now" to download Music, "not upload" because, we are Really Paying for it. LOL

it is not legal in canada to download music ... it IS legal in canada to copy your own music -- but currently these rights do not extend to movies ..

and new laws coming into effect - EVERYWHERE - which people don't seem to realize will make everything you do illegal --

i posted here about this some time ago --

[j1d10t]

and new laws coming into effect - EVERYWHERE - which people don't seem to realize will make everything you do illegal

That's a scary thought................... :P

[housepig]

Lots of folks would like to find some of those moldy-oldies, forgotten tunes from the grooveyard. Sales would add up.

truly... I read about this band Modulo 1000, a Brazilian psych-rock outfit that released one album around 1970.

some Japanese label reissued maybe 1,000 copies on disc, but have I found one for sale? hell no. but with some patience on Audiogalaxy, I was able to dig up 7 or 8 songs.

now for a decent price, like a buck a song, I'd be happy to pay for a download....

funny.. if you read Frank Zappa's autobiography, he tried (in the mid 80's!!) to interest the music industry in the idea of central servers connected to stores where you'd go in, pick a bunch of individual songs or an album, then customize a cover while the data piped to burners behind the counter. go to the counter, pay for the disc, bingo!

what if they had taken that tack?

[j1d10t]

what if they had taken that tack?

It would (most likely) be a very differnt world...........

[Chuffster]

Most of the stuff I've downloaded in the past has been stuff that I couldn't pay for because they weren't offered at any prices.

That is the only time I've downloaded stuff. If it were available I would buy it. I'm not a massive music fan but I've downloaded some American TV shows not available in the UK for many months (even a year or longer) on any format.

The net has made the world a smaller place and a bigger market. Making consumers wait for official releases is commercial stupidity. The whole DVD region code and staggered movie release program has profitted pirates and region hacked hardware manufacturers to the detriment of the film producers.

Make it available and we will buy it. Restrict it's access and lose profit to pirates and filesharers. It's a simple choice, you'd think they could do the math.

[fritzi93]

The net has made the world a smaller place and a bigger market. Making consumers wait for official releases is commercial stupidity. The whole DVD region code and staggered movie release program has profitted pirates and region hacked hardware manufacturers to the detriment of the film producers.

Make it available and we will buy it. Restrict it's access and lose profit to pirates and filesharers. It's a simple choice, you'd think they could do the math.

Can't for the life of me think of how such practices benefit them. Perhaps someone can explain?

[shelbyGT]

Until the prices on "legal" music sites come down, I'll stick to the radio or buying used cd's off of Amazon.com (the ones that always say "not for resale". I always laugh at that).

I, for one, refuse to pay a buck for a song. even if it is a one-hit wonder. Considering how many 1 hit wonders there are, that just wouldn't make sense.

[Vejita-sama]

Region coding allows the movie industry to sell distrubution rights overseas. You live in Europe and want to see 'Harry Potter' on DVD. No problem well sell you (and only you) the rights to it.

It also allows them to set different market/street prices for the same material. For example, I was really into anime (before it became more mainstream). We use to buy Japanese LDs, translate the movie ourselves, genlock it, and record a 'fan subtitled film' to SVCD tapes.

Fansubs worked under the idea that if it's not avabile for sale in the US it's ok, to make your own subtitled copy When the title came out in the US you stop trading it/buy the US verison.

Most japanese LDs are WAY over priced (say $40/per eps). But when the titles were relased in the US they went for $5-10/per eps (VHS or LD). So people in japan started buying US releases of japanese films (the 'grey market').

Region locks are a way to stop that too. Truth betold there is still a ton of anime that will most likely never be released in the US. And if you don't speak japanese 'fansubs' are the only way you're going to see these titles.

Is that legal, no. Is it ethical, no. But it's also not a lost sale to the japanese companies either. I DO NOT support pirates, but I've done it

[spectroelectro]

The big irony here is that the media conglomerates are going after the little small fry, not the big priates. And who are the big pirates?
Entire countries. Like, oh, say, China.
"The Lion King" was available for sale on streets in China before it became available for sale in the U.S.
In China, whole factories are geared up to manufacture pirate editions in mass quantities.
And let's not even talk about Iran. As it happens, Iran is not a signatory to the Int'l Copyright Agreement. This means that the very concept of copyright as we recognize it has no existence in Iran. The Iranians can print or dupe or stamp out as many pirated books or audio CDs or DVDs as they want, and nobody can stop 'em, since they signed a treaty saying they wouldn't.
Incidentally, that's exactly the same thing the U.S. used to do during the 19th century. America was the biggest copyright pirate on the planet in the 1800s. American printers ripped off Dickesn and Tachkeray and everybody else and never paid 'em a dime and made millions while thumbing their noses at the copyright laws of Europe.
What goes around, comes around...

[canadateck]

I guess thats why it's legal in canada "For now" to download Music, "not upload" because, we are Really Paying for it. LOL

it is not legal in canada to download music ... it IS legal in canada to copy your own music -- but currently these rights do not extend to movies ..

and new laws coming into effect - EVERYWHERE - which people don't seem to realize will make everything you do illegal --

i posted here about this some time ago --

I read this and it seems to me for Now it is. Myabe I'm wrong? http://news.com.com/2100-1025-5121479.html

[DaBarrister]

The big irony here is that the media conglomerates are going after the little small fry, not the big priates. And who are the big pirates?
Entire countries. Like, oh, say, China.

Incorrect. The USofA is constantly coming down on China, Taiwan, Phillipines, Malaysia, etc., trying to get them to enforce our copyrights. These things have to be accomplished diplomatically first, then through ever-increasing trade sanctions. It's not like US forces can swoop down on a market in Beijing and start making arrests, you know.

Hey, that's the REAL reason we invaded Iraq! To stop piracy!

Lookout, Iran....

[BJ_M]

I guess thats why it's legal in canada "For now" to download Music, "not upload" because, we are Really Paying for it. LOL

it is not legal in canada to download music ... it IS legal in canada to copy your own music -- but currently these rights do not extend to movies ..

and new laws coming into effect - EVERYWHERE - which people don't seem to realize will make everything you do illegal --

i posted here about this some time ago --

I read this and it seems to me for Now it is. Myabe I'm wrong? http://news.com.com/2100-1025-5121479.html

very intersing -- that says it IS legal in canada to download to your hearts content while on the gov site and other sites they say it is NOT ... since that link you gave is dated pretty recent - we will go by that

the irony of this is that the RIAA/Canada is going to sue people in canada (also - so they claim) , but it seems legal to download but not to upload .. so i guess d/l away , but dont share anything .. 8)