How can I put multiple VCD mpg files on a DVD-R?

[digital_frog]

I've read most of the relevant guides in the guide section incl. lordsmurf's about making dvds from multiple vcds but they cover the process of extracting files from already burned vcds (with isobuster) rather than adding vcd compliant mpg files to a dvd.

Here's what I'd like to do: Multiple divx/xvid files ->vcd compatible mpg files, then add mpg files to dvd. I realize it's not a drag and drop process, but can it be done? If anyone can point me to a guide that covers this I'd appreciate it. Also, is it important for all files to be in the same system, ie. all NTSC or all PAL?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

DF

[Baldrick]

Don't convert to VCD. Convert directly to dvd with low resolution similiar vcd if you want to store several hours/dvd. You can't mix PAL and NTSC on same DVD.

[ttn]

Hi,
well I guess it is that simple. I have a lot of cartoons on VCD now on DVD-R. The only problem I encountered was that I could not mix NTSC and PAL VCDs on same DVD-R.

I did it this way:
1) Ripping the VCDs using VcdGear, ie. converting the *.dat files to *.mpg files.
2) Use TMPGEnc DVD Author by adding the above *.mpg files just as it was eg. ordinary MPEG-2 files. TMPGEnc DVD Author will by itself do the necessary audio sampling rate conversion from 44.1kHz to 48kHZ.

Regards Torben.

PS: I have used DVDRHelp.com for several years now, but yesterday I registered as user and this is my first post. Hope you can use it, otherwise report back and ask for more. This is a great site ).

[digital_frog]

Thanks baldrick, but I'm a bit confused now. Do you mean convert each divx avi to dvd using DVD2SVCD? Won't that force me to convert to 720x576 and use the DVD settings in DVD2SVCD? Or am i missing something?

[ttn]

Hi again,

saw Baldricks answer and your new question so perhaps I misunderstood your problem a little.

You can easily convert your DivX/Xvid files to VCD compliant *.mpg files using TMPGEnc encoder program (using the VCD templates). And it is free for MPEG-1 encoding.

Afterwards you can author these using TMPGEnc DVD Author as I mentioned. And burn directly the generated *.ifo and *.vob files to a DVD Video in the VIDEO_TS directory.

This is the easiest and most simply way, the only drawbacks are:
1) VCD quality/resolution is not that good, but if that is what you want that is OK. It gives a lot of hours on one DVD-R.
2) The audio is resampled with a little extra loss of quality that could have been avoided. But anyhow, it was probably only 128kbit/s MP3 at the source material.

/Torben.

[digital_frog]

Hi ttn, thanks for the input. That's what I was planning to do (i.e. convert to vcd, then use dvd author to add the files to the dvd), but what I think baldrick is saying is to convert directly to dvd (without going through the vcd stage) at low resolution but i'm a little unclear on how to do that.

In any case I'll go ahead and give your method a try. The source files aren't that great anyway, so vcd quality is the best they're going to be. Thanks for your help.

DF

[Gazorgan]

I have mixed NTSC and PAL DVD's, with TMPG Author. You need a player that won't go nuttso, but it can be done.

What Baldric is saying is convert AVI to MPEG2. Your assuming he meant 720x576. MPEG2 has more than that resolution. Probably 352x576 is best for most AVI's ( 352x288 progressive is another good choice).

Check the valid DVD resolutions here: https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

[digital_frog]

Ok, I understand what you're saying. The problem is, DVD2SVCD only supports predetermined resolutions (VCD/SVCD/DVD) so I don't see how i can covert my divx file to a custom mpeg2 resolution. I have Canopus procoder that can probably do that but it has audio sync issues, so what do you recommend?

TIA

DF

[digital_frog]

Ok, here's another thing I found in the guides but correct me if i'm wrong:

"If your DVD Player supports MPEG1/2 ISO files, you could just convert the VCD DAT files to MPG and burn them directly on a DVD±R/W as standard data. You should then be able to select and play the MPG files from the file browser on your DVD Player. But this DVDVCD will only work on DVD Players that supports MPEG1/2 ISO."

As far as I know, my player supports mpg. So theoretically i can just convert the divx avis to vcd, then add them as data with nero, right?

[ttn]

Hi,

seen the DVD resolutions as pointed out by Gazorgan. I think MPEG-2 encoding is more efficient than MPEG-1, so making an MPEG-2 encoding at eg. 352x288 (PAL) should give a better quality than MPEG-1 at same resolution (VCD) and bitrate (could be interesting to know/see for sure).

You can also higher the bitrate used (and resolution too) giving better picture quality, but all at the cost of less minutes in total at the DVD.
Changing the video settings for MPEG-2 and keeping within the DVD standard can be a little tedious, but using eg. the TMPGEnc DVD template and only change the bitrate and resolution as pointed out by Gazorgan should be fairly easy (still being compliant).

Back to your last question: If you are sure your DVD player can play MPEG1/2 ISO files, yes you should be able to convert the clips from *.avi to *.mpg and afterwards burn them onto a data-DVD. A friend of mine has a DVD player capable of doing this (at least for data CD-ROMs), but I think it is quite few types of players supporting this. Anyhow you can give it a try.

/Torben.

[ronnylov]

The audio is different on VCD and DVD so that's why it is better to convert directly to DVD instead of converting to VCD first. Let's say you have an avi with audio sampled at 48 kHz. Then you convert it to VCD you get a resampling to 44.1 kHz and compression in mpeg1 layer 2. Then you put the VCD on DVD the audio will be resampled again to 48 kHz and maybe encoded as ac3. You get worse audio doing this way.

You can encode the video with VCD settings but encode audio with 48 kHz sampling frequency to a DVD compliant format directly from the avi source. PAL DVD players supports audio on DVD in mpeg1 layer2 but with 48 kHz sampling frequency so you can just encode as VCD but change audio to 48 kHz instead of 44.1 kHz. You may also want to increase the video bitrate a bit to something like 1.5 mbit/s to get better video quality at vcd resolution on DVD.

Also if you want DVD compliance the GOP should not be longer than 15 frames for PAL and max 18 for NTSC. But when you encode to VCD the GOP may be longer. There is a template in tmpgenc for low bitrate DVD that you can try instead of the VCD template.

[digital_frog]

First of all, thanks to everyone for the info.

Ok, here's what I understand so far. If I can keep audio at 48khz (DVD2SVCD allows it under the "audio" tab) and encode to vcd then plop it on the dvd as data, that works.

But the consensus seems to be to use Tmpgenc to encode as low res DVD instead. Problem is I can use DVD2SVCD with CCE blindfolded at this stage so probably easier to do a quick and dirty conversion to vcd keeping 48->44 khz unchecked in the settings. But I'll install Tmpgenc and give it a go with the other proposed suggestions (or try it with Procoder).

One LAST question: Some of my divxs are encoded with 44khz audio. Here's what I did and tell me if I'm right: Opened the file in Virtualdub, set video to stream copy and audio to full processing. Selected PCM with "change frequency" to 48000 in the audio settings (and "high quality" selected). That's right, right?

Thanks again,

DF

[digital_frog]

You may also want to increase the video bitrate a bit to something like 1.5 mbit/s to get better video quality at vcd resolution on DVD.

Ronnylov, one question about this. Can you do that? I thought vcd was fixed at 1150... will it be compliant if I increase it?

For the most part it probably wont help anyway as some of the files are between 700-900 mbits so even the vcd bitrate doesn't produce any improvement, (I'm assuming increasing the bitrate of a compressed file doesn't improve the end result, right?) but useful to know for higher quality files.

[ronnylov]

You are correct that VCD is limited in bitrate to 1150 kbit/s. But we are talking DVD now and mpeg-1 on DVD can have a video bitrate up to around 1850 kbit/s (I don't remember the exact value). Mpeg2 on DVD can have a bitrate up to 10 mbit/s.

Also there is differences between mpeg1 encoding and for instance divx. A divx avi can be compressed to a lower bitrate and still have better quality than VCD because the compression method is more effecient at low bitrates. But if you convert it to a less effective compression like mpeg1 or mpeg2 then you need a higher bitrate to get the same quality. So I think you'll see a difference with higher bitrates but of course you can never get any better quality than your source video. Try some different bitrates and see if you can see the difference. I don't think you can get acceptable results with mpeg-1 at bitrates as low as 700-900 kbit/s but if you want to try it you may be interested to look at www.kvcd.net

[Gazorgan]

DVD2SVCD is a great tool. But it has it's limitations (being SVCD or full D1).

If you learn the steps of conversion, you will have much better results.

I suggest you look at TMPGEnc (free 30 day trial). It is more user friendly than CCE.

Converting AVI's to MPEG2 is pretty straightforward. The usual failure occurs in the audio (specifically VBR audio in the source). The guides have covered it to death, but since your authoring, you can leave the Video and Audio seperate.

For most 700 MB avi's, I suggest 352x288 MPEG2 progressive at around 1.5 Mbps (everything VCD wanted to be), or 352x576 MPEG2 interlaced (1/2D1) around 3000-4000 Mbps (everythng SVCD wanted to be). Full D1 is a waste on low-res avi's.

Basic tools are:
virtual Dub
BeSweet
TMPGEnc

and you Authoring tool (TMPG Author?)
Goldwave and/or avi2wav for pesky VBR audio issues. ac3fix for AC3 audio AVI's (vdub will strip it, but it messes up the header, ac3fix fixes the header).

[digital_frog]

Here's an update from my conversion adventures if anyone's interested: Installed Tmpgenc. Tried two different files using mpeg2 at 3000kbps CBR / 576x304 (all other settings default) and 128kbps audio. File no1 froze with no explanation whatsoever on every try. File no2 went through but gave me a 6GB file (!) with no audio.

I'm sure a lot of this has to do with using the program for the first time. On the other hand, vcd's created at 1150kbps with dvd2svcd played beautifully, even dropped them on to the dvd without having to author. So, until i learn tmpgenc i guess i'll have to stick with the default res of 352x288 and 1150kbps.

Thanks again,

DF