Are portable MiniDV's Professional grade?

[burdo]

Are the minidv camcorders that retail $800 and less able to give professional results ? I am looking to buy one for home use but never know what it might lead to. Just wondered if they were able to perform to that standard. As well as anyone have any suggestions for a model. I am looking at dvspot but they all start looking the same heh. Thx

[rallynavvie]

I've got a Sony TRV25 that works OK, but I think for professional you've gotta look at a 3 CCD camera, and those start at ~$2500 for a good one. The problem is you can't zoom (pan and scan basically) on the footage from a consumer camera hardly at all so what you see is what you get. It's plenty good for simple things like that where you don't need to crop and resize the film.

[BJ_M]

they also dont have the lens quality generally speaking .. but more than one has been used at times for "pro" work (ussually news)

[burdo]

thx for the replies. Figured big money cameras were the only real solution. Guess ill wait awhile and see where things go. Unfortunately my 8mm video output crapped out, lcd and composite video out stopped working. But it shows real time on lcd weird.

[mikesbytes]

If you are just looking at them for personal use, then you will get a considerable improvement over the old 8mm one anyway. For home use the difference between a better quality single ccd and a 3 ccd camera is small, but none the less, if you want it for commerical purposes, then you probably should get a 3 ccd camera.

[thing914]

You could check out the new Panasonic PV-DV953, a 3ccd for just over $1k street price or its baby brother, the PV-GS70 the is a 3ccd in your price range. I've been looking at the 953 myself.

[burdo]

will do , all I need is a way to convert the 8mm tapes heh...

[thing914]

You could pick up a Digital8 camcorder on ebay. That's what i did so could play/capture/convert the older tapes, the Sony TRV103 is going for about $250-290 Check the specs to be sure on any other models, some of the newer Digital8 models can not play back the older 8mm and Hi8 tapes. The 103 can.

[burdo]

Ill check into that as well.

[energy80s]

For "cheap" 3 chippers you are talking about the Sony 950 or the Canon MX2 - both selling for around £1400. Neither are broacast quality, but they are pretty damn good for home / semi-pro use.

[Innershield]

As mentioned, go with a Digital8 so you can play back your 8mm tapes. Tapes for a Digtal8 use use Hi8 tapes but record digitally. The tapes are half the price of Minidv tapes too. Also Digital8 cams have higher zooms than a miniDV. I have a Sony TRV740 which has megapixel and I get outstanding clarity and quality. It originally cost $799 but I have seen them on eBay for around $400.

[vhelp]

Hi guys, TGIF to all :P

Yeah, @ burdo..

You also gotta figure the user's level of operation. How good is the
person behind the camera ??

Yes, the cam can do lots of things, but although (consumer models) lower
grade quality, you can still optain good quality and/or even sometimes,
convence that of profesional quality IF:

* You are skilled behind the camera (and know how to operate and take
...advantage of the camera and features etc.

* Have a good quality (low budget/consumer brand) cam

* Right equipment for that given scene etc.

* all properly tuned processes working in concert w/ each other will yield
...acceptable (prof) quality though not true profelssional quality.

My advice to you (or anyone) is like this.., if you want the best/max quality
from home footage, besides a good cam (known/reputable brand) go out
and get yourself a GOOD quality brand tripod.., one w/ fluid smooth motion
for panning up/down/left/right, and you'll very good quality. But, hold your
cam in your hands while you shoot, and you can forget about prof quality
or anything close to convencing prof quality !!

A stable shoot can win you great quality. Couple that w/ proper lighting and
encoding (color minipulation etc) and you have even more convencing prof
quality.

All the above (and then some) requires a learning curve. Time. etc.

The biggest issue w/ good quality (from tripoding) is learning to master the
"fluid motion" of panning (any/all direction) You've gotta learn how to master
this process. Just look at the news and see how they do it. Watch them
closely. Yes, a sticky tripod, for whein you are panning your cam, can result
in jerky footage. I'm still learning this. Cold weather doesn't help (as in
this evening football game I too footage of) My hands could not stop shaking
because of the cold weather at night. I had to use my body to pan the cam
and even that didn't help as much.. better than nothing. But, it got cold enough
that my legs began to shake. I had to call it quits after half-time. But, I got
some good footage (using a tripd, though sticky)

tripod, tripod, tripod, .. .. ..

From the desk of,
-vhelp 2035

[burdo]

thx to all thet took time and posted. You made some great points vhelp. I am in no way an experienced camera operator. As well as the digital8 idea is a good one. Guess I need to go down to Best Buy and play around with some cameras. Thx again

[racer-x]

vhelp made a good point with the use of a tripod.

If your camera has digital image stabilizer, disable it for better video quality. If your camera has an optical image stabilizer, it should be fine.

Never use digital zoom, unless you like crapy, noisy video.

[lordsmurf]

As a news photographer, I'll say right away that I couldn't do jack squat with a non-pro camera. I'd miss the controls and abilities.

Does that translate to video also? I'd say so. Still photography and video have much in common.

Can consumer cameras be used in a pinch? Sure. For regular work? Not at all. I've used a point-n-shoot when the situation warranted it. But that's maybe 1% or less of the time.

Options, quality, lens, etc etc. All those things mark the difference in pro and consumer. The BIGGEST difference I find in pro cameras is PRECISION and ACCURACY.

If I pull out my F5 or D1, I will get the shot I want. If I had a point-n-shoot or some cheap SLR, I may be limited. I'd prefer to be limited by my own mind and art/news ability, not the device in my hand.

I remember the ol' college newspaper. Every year a new staff is hired, sometimes every semester. We'd get in the kids fresh out of high school applying for the job... and they'd bring point-n-shoots with them. Or they'd claim to have a great camera for news work... and it'd be some POS Canon Rebel. Those kids normally didn't get hired. They just didn't know any better. They'd never been in a semi-pro environment like the ones they were applying for. There are reasons the pros buy the cameras they buy. Learn them.

Hope that helps.

[Sugar]

The question really is: what is your intended use?

Are you looking for good quality at affordable price or are you looking for pro-quality for pro-work.

I am more in the 1st category and are therefore very happy with my Sony PCR-115E (the equivalent of the DCR-PC 120 without blutooth and in PAL format).

I was looking for good quality at reasonable price, coming form the Hi8 world. I hesitated between the Digital8 and DV format for a while for the advantages mentioned above (ability to play both analog and digital tapes). But in the end, what won me over was the definition and the optics: 1.5M pixel (gross) and a Zeiss lens.
The result is extremely satisfactory. I capture my films and edit them with Premiere 6.5, compress them with TMPGEnc, author with DVDit and burn my DVDs with Nero 5.5.

Do not forget either: technology is moving fast and improvements are made daily which drive prices down. Again look for the best quality / price ratio for you.

[burdo]

I will never use it for anything more that xmas, vacations and of course the lil ones as the grow but I just wanted to keep my options open. I thought of doing some home movie to dvd conversion locally for low prices and thought it might one day end up as me taping things for people ie weddings , bdays things of that nature but it will more than likely never go past the personal use heh. As well as cost is an issue money is tight and now i cant sell my 8mm to offset it and my digital camera is so old it wont yeild much in the +cash column thx for the input...

[g_shocker182]

You could check out the new Panasonic PV-DV953, a 3ccd for just over $1k street price or its baby brother, the PV-GS70 the is a 3ccd in your price range. I've been looking at the 953 myself.

Hatz and I have discussed this camera over a few PMs. I checked out the lowest price online and that lead me to amphotoworld.com (that JVC cam was selling there for $590). Here's a link from the PM he sent me that you definitely should look at.


http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1988.html

[deepdown]

Hey,
I bought a Sony DCR-TRV 890E , its a semipro camera (if you can call it that) And it works great. (only thing with 890E is that it has no DV-IN, but with a LANc cable and h a c k ... you can enable it)

..but

I did have a repair on the camera for $725 US.
That is alot of money!

And reason was that the camera had got "inside damage", which could come from a knock on the camera - but it may be invisible on the outside.

What I want to tell you is; if you buy a expensive camera, be ready to pay a great deal of money on repair too..

I think small DV cams works good, but they make the movie more "filmed on a shaky hand"..

[subigo]

Don't let people tell you that certain cameras could never be used for pro work, that's BS. Plenty of movies, tv shows, etc... have been shot on cameras under $2500. The Sony vx-2000 (which can be found used for under $2000) was used to shoot a ton of movies (I can name them if you really want).

I know a guy that shot an award winning short on nothing more than the panasonic dv-852 (about $600)...

Go to triggerstreet.com and watch some of the shorts and find out what they were shot on, it will give you a good understanding of what certain cameras can do.

But to answer your question, yes... check out the panasonic dv-953 and the dv-852... with the right lighting and work in post, you can make these look just as good as a $2500 camera.

[Vintageman]

I've got the Panasonic pv 953 and it 3cc picture is great but, only if you have good lighting or are shooting on a good bright day. Night shots and in door are pretty bad without proper lighting.

[subigo]

I've got the Panasonic pv 953 and it 3cc picture is great but, only if you have good lighting or are shooting on a good bright day. Night shots and in door are pretty bad without proper lighting.

What he said is true, but remember, any camera is going to look like crap if the light is too low. When was the last time anyone heard of a film being shot without lighting? It's all about the lighting. . .

[racer-x]

I rcently bought the Panasoniv dv-953. It is a nice camera for the money. The video quality is excellent with good lighting. 90% of my videos are outdoor sports anyway, and this camera really shines in that respect.

Like subigo says, lighting is everything. Even the movie industry shoots thier night scenes during the day, then darkens them when they edit to make it look like night time.

[vhelp]

.
.
In addtion to lighting, which is always very important, finding that right
tripod will make or brake your footage (if you're looking for profesional
style output - or closest to it)
.
.
But, another aspect of profesioanlism is the skill level. That includes techniques
and specials gifts and things.

Another aspect of profesionalism is the fluidness in operation. Panning
and moving your cam around. If one is talking about (or actually, realying
upon) can-held cams (just because they say the stabilizer will handle
the shakes) is off to a bad start or wrong turn.

I would say that in addition to, and "user desingable", lighting as being the
first important aspect of profesionalim, movment of cam (aka, camming)
is critial to smooth / fluid quality. The more jerks and sudden or abruptness
in camming, and you've got amature footage. It's that plain and simple.
.
.
Movement of the cam (or panning) smoothly is what really gives the shine
in videography. You gotta have the right moments.

Of course, the lens also plays in important part too. Among other things.
Actually, there are many, but lighting and panning (L&P) is most important.
.
.
The Interlace and/or pogressive can always be worked out.

There are other good techniques to master in your footage profesionalism.
Some are:

* Turn off stabilizer (these sometimes leave artifacts)

* Turn auto-focus (these also leave artifacts) If you have a manual ring for
...focusing, better learn how to use it under quick conditions. It'll pay off.
...But, even if you leave AF off, and while your footaging around in distant
...scenes, you won't really notice anything bad w/ your video. Really. So,
...don't be affraid of doing things that sounds like going against the grain.

* Shoot in 4:3 mode. If you really need widescreen effect, you can always
...crop off 60 pix top/bottom and enocde 16:9 mode, for a really nice looking
...film effect.

* If you cam allows, shoot with 1/60th mode also. On my TRV22, there is
...no setting for this, but in memory mode, I believe it is set to 1/60th
...anyways. You can tell this by pointing your cam at your tv set while hooked
...up to it. If the video is crystal clear, it is set to 1/60th, if not, or partially
...covered by dark or blackness, it's above 1/60th. Memory mode will be
...in 1/60th (based on my understanding of this principle) But, lighting does
...effect this 1/60th - so it will depend on this too.

Now, if you have poor lens, like the Canon ZR-10 does, there's not much
you gonna obtain, even in better lighting condition. Lens is very important
too.

So, there's some more tips for getting that much closer to profesionalism

From the Video Workstation of,
-vhelp 2125

[deepdown]

You all seem to know a good deal of "what's good cameras".
And I also SO do believe that light has everything to say when shooting film.. the same also comes to using a digital camera. The more light, the better.. (of course to a sertain extent)

vhelp, what you wrote, wow. You really seem to know alot!
It would be nice if you could sum up which cameras NOT to buy.. making it easier for us "or me"... camera amatures.. which camera I should buy.

Or better yet, post which cameras that is good!

And don't let price be a obstacle, now and then shops do have SALE's. (and I'm there 05am to make sure I get it )

[vhelp]

hay guys, if TGIF again hehe :P

..and over 3" of snow so far, and climbing higher, over here.

@ deepdown,

GEE, tanx for the vote of confidense

vhelp, what you wrote, wow. You really seem to know alot!
It would be nice if you could sum up which cameras NOT to buy.. making it easier for us "or me"... camera amatures.. which camera I should buy.

Well, I don't claim to know "everything" ..just lots more then some but
not enough for others
.
.
Sorry, I can't give you any info on your request for "cameras NOT to buy"
because I can't afford to buy/try/return.

Most of my knowledge (if you call it that) is obtain through lots of trial and
error excercises. I do.. therefore, I am. hehe.. Just kidding. Anyways..
I do. I go out and just do. And, learn from doing. I just happen to remember
lots of do's and don't's (when it comes to my cam) And, yes, I have lots
more to learn.
But really, I'm just a beginner too.

-vhelp 2126

[morr1s]

I've got the Panasonic pv 953 and it 3cc picture is great but, only if you have good lighting or are shooting on a good bright day. Night shots and in door are pretty bad without proper lighting.

I own the Panasonic 852 minidv and thought I had problems with indoor lighting until I discovered the magicpix effect which is used for low lighting situations. It also has pass-thru for tape conversions which I didn't see in the instruction manual[/quote]