letterboxed 4:3 or "true" 16:9??

[madymo3d]

I have noticed recently that some of my widescreen DVD backups to SVCD looks "fat." They're labeld 16:9 or widescreen, and also gives the real aspect ratio. Legally Blonde 2, Italian Job, just to name 2. But using tmpgenc and DVDx, the people looks fat, and the Paramount circle of stars at the beginning of the movie look squatted. Could it possible that it's actually letterboxed 4:3? I mean, to the average consumer it looks wide so it doesn't matter how they label it. The DVD player will take care of any conversions, etc. I know even 16:9 videos aren't true 16:9. Any comments?
Andy

[dahveed3]

The way I tell is by installing DVD2AVI (put it in the Tmpgenc folder and create a start menu shortcut to it), and, after ripping the DVD to the hard drive with either SmartRipper or DVD Decripter, load the VOB's into it. Press F5 for the preview, and DVD2AVI will report the correct original aspect ratio, field order (T=top field first), and whether the movie is progressive, interlaced, and what have you. Then I close DVD2AVI and know what to enter into DVDx without trial and error. I usually use medium zoom for 16:9 and full zoom for 4:3. Then you just leave the Tmpgenc advanced input setting at NTSC 4:3 and full screen(keep aspect ratio), as DVDx has already made the needed adjustments for 16:9 to play on 4:3 TV's. I solved most audio difficulties by using the Video Server to decode to wave and encode to mp2, then letting it mux the finshed product with its included Bbmpeg. The installer does not install Bbmpeg correctly. You must rename the file to cm-bbmpeg.prm. You must also change the file extention of the Tmpgenc output to .mpv. (Just click on all files to be able to change it from .m1v. Then I use Tmpgenc's merge and cut to cut it to VCD sizes, which will also repair the VCD aspect of the mpeg as Bbmpg doesn't do it quite right. When you start the encode, DVDx will error with "fix me-backward pass not supported." Just click "ok" until it stops popping up with that and the encoding will proceed perfectly.

[madymo3d]

Oops, I should clarify that I use both tmpgenc and DVDx independently, not as a plug-in. I don't normally use both, but if there's problem with one I try it on the other.

About the zoom setting in DVDx, I leave it at "None." When you set it to medium or full zoom, does that crop the picture? I mean, the picture normally goes from left edge to the right edge. If you zoom in any more, you have to crop the sides to maintain aspect ratio. I don't see a way around it. Man I wish this video editing stuff is less confusing!

I will start using the settings reported by DVD2AVI. Thanks for the tip.
andy

[dahveed3]

Andy,

Okay, so you're using DVD2AVI to frameserve to Tmpgenc then. In that case, you use the DVD2AVI information to set Tmpgenc to the correct aspect ratio. When setting up Tmpgenc, load the .d2v, and the appropriate Tmpgenc template. Then click Settings, Advanced. On the Video Source Type, Field Order, and Source Aspect Ratio drop-downs, set them to whatever DVD2AVI's preview reported. Leave the Video tab alone, as that is correctly set by the template for the output file. Many times I've seen 16:9 on the DVD label, but DVD2AVI preview showed it to actually be 4:3. That just means that the film was originally 16:9 but the DVD creators changed it to 4:3 to better appear on TV screens. And yes, using Zoom options apply predetermined crops to a movie when necessary, but also correct aspect ratios. Its really doing the same thing as the advanced tab of Tmpgenc settings with a different interface. I don't know about you, but I can't watch a movie in that thin, long box that results when you leave DVDx Zoom set to "None." At least in DVDx 2.2, I've got to use either Medium or Full to get the same picture that I would when watching the DVD. I don't notice any cropping on most movies, if it is even cropping it at all (not sure).

Dennis

[madymo3d]

Thanks for the follow up. I guess that's what I'm really asking, that even if a DVD says 16:9, it could still be a letterboxed 4:3. I have to start paying more attention to the DVD2AVI output and less attention to the DVD box!
Andy

[Gazorgan]

A letterboxed 4:3 isn't 16:9. There's a flag called a DAR (Display Aspect Ratio) which tells your player how to display the video. Skinny/Fat people are created because people confuse resolution ratio (AVI of 640x480= 4:3 resolution) with DAR (where an AVI in 640x480 = 1:1 DAR, although you can't set that on a DVD).

It more easily understood when you consider a computer monitor pixels to be square (1:1) and a TV's are slightly rectangular. Ever wonder how a 720x480 standard DVD can be 4:3 or 16:9? It's all in how it's encoded and flagged. If you treat your source as 4:3 and it's really 16:9 (or vice versa) you get fat/skinny. Just change your source to the correct DAR and you will be fine.

[sn0wb0ard3r13]

I have a question along the same lines of 4:3 & 16:9. Some DVD's I open with SmartRipper say 4:3 on the aspect ratio, whether they are 4:3 or 16:9. The same disc SmartRipper said was 4:3, when I opened the .ifo file in chapter-x-tractor, it says 16:9 (and the box says widescreen too..). SmartRipper rips them fine but then when i encode with dvdx in full zoom, it comes out in 4:3 mode. I can change the aspect ratio on say divxplayer and it comes out fine widescreen, but it's just annoying. I haven't figured out how to change the SmartRipper's settings and don't know if it's possible. Maybe there's something i need to change in DVDx?

[wulf109]

SVCD does not support letterboxing at any ratio. If you encode without the black bars the vast majority of DVD players will display it full screen with the aspect ratio incorrect of course.
Some 16:9 movies are hard-encoded with the black bars part of the video frame. These movies will say 4:3 in Smartripper,even IFOEDIT calls them 4:3.