How to convert PAL Subtitles to NTSC Subtitles?

[svcdsubguy]

Hi, I have a PAL subtitle file (can convert it to just about anything with Subtitle Workshop). I want to convert it to NTSC subtitle file. In Subtitle Workshop there's an option that you can set FPS to 29,97 but the resulting subs are not synced properly. Is there a tool that can do this?
I've searched the net and chatrooms but can't find soulution to this.

[mujahid7ia]

maybe its not synced properly because the video file itself is NOT 29.97 fps! If the subs are pal, chances are the video is too... so it wont be synced! 25fps v. 29.97

[svcdsubguy]

Sorry I should have clarified that I converted the video from PAL to NTSC already. So originally this PAL (25fps) divx would be in sync with its subs. Once I convert video to ntsc subs won't sync (and they shouldn't), but that's where my question is... how do I make them sync with the new NTSC video
Thanks for repy!

[FulciLives]

Sorry I should have clarified that I converted the video from PAL to NTSC already. So originally this PAL (25fps) divx would be in sync with its subs. Once I convert video to ntsc subs won't sync (and they shouldn't), but that's where my question is... how do I make them sync with the new NTSC video
Thanks for repy!

I am NO expert when it comes to subtitles but I've run into this problem myself and the only answers I could find was that there was a way to do it but I never got a detailed how-to answer nor could I ever get it to work trying more than one or two sub ripping programs. So I never really did figure out how to take a SUB script and change the timing from say 25fps to 23.976fps (I usually convert 25fps PAL to 23.976fps NTSC as it seems to work well with most sources that way).

So ok I couldn't figure out how to change the timing in the SUB script but I did come up with another method that works.

My solution?

Use an AviSynth AVS script that loads your movie and the subs (I used VobSub here for the subs). Then after loading both do your AssumeFPS (23.976fps) line in the script.

In this way the subs will be hard encoded into the video BUT they will be in sync. You will also have to convert the audio from 25fps to 23.976fps using BeSweet (make sure you use the most current BETA version).

It works. It works well. Only drawback is the subs are "burned into" the image and therefore cannot be turned off but I always did this using English subs and non-English speaking movies so ... my point is ... I'd never watch the movie without subs anyway ... so ... who cares that you can't turn the subs off?

The other option ...

A user on here by the name of Xesdeeni has created an AviSynth AVS script that converts 25fps PAL to 29.970fps NTSC but the total running time of the film is unchanged. Therefore you could keep the subs seperate ... not have to change the timing on them ... and they will still sync up. Haven't actually done this method with a movie that has subs but I have used this method on some PAL to NTSC and the original sound still syncs without needing to change it with BeSweet so if the sound still syncs to the new NTSC then so should the subs.

Here are two links that will help you with Xesdeeni's method. The first is his website. The second is a thread on THIS website that discusses the process in great detail.

1.) http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

2.) https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433

Hope this helps!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

Sorry I should have clarified that I converted the video from PAL to NTSC already. So originally this PAL (25fps) divx would be in sync with its subs. Once I convert video to ntsc subs won't sync (and they shouldn't), but that's where my question is... how do I make them sync with the new NTSC video
Thanks for repy!

I just wanted to add that since your source is a DivX then it is most likely PROGRESSIVE PAL video. As I said this is very easy to convert to 23.976fps but my experiences with the process I talked about is more atuned to conversion to MPEG-2 for DVD usage (and would also apply to say SVCD or even VCD).

However it still should work with a DivX if you load the AviSynth AVS into VirtualDub (I use VirtualDubMod) then re-save it as a new DivX.

Assuming you are going for DivX to DivX

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SaSi]

Please clarify a couple of things:

1. What is your video file format and what do you want to do with it?
(for example: It's divX and want to make a DVD or SVCD)

2. What do you want to do with the subtitles?
(for example: burn them with the video or make a DVD with selectable subtitles)

3. What is a PAL subtitle file?
To my understanding, a subtitle set can be "named" PAL if it's in graphic format (bmp) and has a size of 720x576 (while NTSC is 720x480) OR if the subtitle timing script refers to frames rather than time.
What is the format of the subtitles you have? If you have a script, can you post an extract (5-6 lines with subtitle references plus the header will do).

[svcdsubguy]

The other option ...

A user on here by the name of Xesdeeni has created an AviSynth AVS script that converts 25fps PAL to 29.970fps NTSC but the total running time of the film is unchanged.

This option is more applicable to me because I want to do switchable subs. I'm gonna dig into that thread to try to locate how to do it :P It might turn out to be a 2-way process, that is first I convert 25fps to 29.97 withouth changing length of film. And then that file to mpeg2.
Thanks, hope it works shomehow though, because I can't find a way to do it any other way!

[svcdsubguy]

Here are some more clarifications

1) My end result is DVD-compliant files. Evrything separate -- Sound, video and subtitles. I would want to switch Subtitles on/off. But I can pretty much bring any files so that they'll be DVD-ready. So video/sound-wise I'm alright.

2) Subtitles I can also convert to lots of formats via something like Subtitle Workshop and then put them into the DVD. The frame rate conversion of subtitles, now that's where I'm stuck.

3) By "PAL subtitles" I meant 25fps. They are small files, text-based, and are time-stamped. I could paste you some subtitles but they could have different styles depending on the file format. Here's SRT for example:
---
51
00:05:33,450 --> 00:05:35,460
Those things are dangerous
to play with.
----

[FulciLives]

Here is the AviSynth AVS script that will convert a PAL DVD to MPEG-2 NTSC DVD format. The new NTSC video is the same length as the original PAL so there is no need to adjust things such as audio tracks and subtitle tracks.

LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\MOVIE\VIDEO_TS\movie.d2v")
crop(0,0,720,576)
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()

You can get the SmoothDeinterlacer.dll file from Xesdeeni's website (link provided in my previous post). Also this script and the SmoothDeinterlacer.dll will only work properly using AviSynth version 2.08 ... not the newer 2.5x version. Last time I looked you could find a single file download of AviSynth version 2.08 in the download section of the doom9 website.

If you prefer to use AviSynth 2.5x then I wouldn't worry about installing version 2.08 as I reinstall one or the other to switch back and forth myself. Never had a problem doing that.

Anyways when you load tihs AviSynth AVS script into TMPGEnc or CCE you should encode as if you are inputting an INTERLACED NTSC source. Also the script will work with either a 4:3 PAL source or a 16x9 PAL source just make sure you select the correct aspect ratio in your encoder to match the source.

Good Luck

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Don't forget to change the DRIVE PATH info in the script to match where your files are on your own HDD

[svcdsubguy]

FulciLives:
It didn't seem to work, I tried couple of tests. And the video stayed unsynced with subs. I modified your script somewhat because my input isn't mpeg but it's DIVx, but I didn't change the main thing of it (right?). At least it seems that the subs should have been synced.

AVISource("J:\Movies\movie.avi") 
ChangeFPS(59.94) 
SeparateFields() 
SelectEvery(4,1,2) 
Weave()

So, I just loaded this script into TMPGEnc, and it produced an mpeg video file. I used this video file along with audio that I extracted from the DIVx and imported both into DVDMaestro. I also imported unmodified subs into it. Then the whole thing generated a DVD. And you know the rest... Any ideas Maybe you could point out where I've screwed up or perhaps another solution? I'm so curious about this thing... there's got to be a solution to this puzzle
Thanks!

[FulciLives]

FulciLives:
It didn't seem to work, I tried couple of tests. And the video stayed unsynced with subs. I modified your script somewhat because my input isn't mpeg but it's DIVx, but I didn't change the main thing of it (right?). At least it seems that the subs should have been synced.

AVISource("J:\Movies\movie.avi") 
ChangeFPS(59.94) 
SeparateFields() 
SelectEvery(4,1,2) 
Weave()

So, I just loaded this script into TMPGEnc, and it produced an mpeg video file. I used this video file along with audio that I extracted from the DIVx and imported both into DVDMaestro. I also imported unmodified subs into it. Then the whole thing generated a DVD. And you know the rest... Any ideas Maybe you could point out where I've screwed up or perhaps another solution? I'm so curious about this thing... there's got to be a solution to this puzzle
Thanks!

What MPEG-2 encoder did you use and what settings did you use?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Heavensent]

if you want to convert the subtitle to other framerate
you can use SubTool.

[adam]

Your problem has nothing to do with the subs, it has to do with the video conversion. The simple fact that your audio still syncs with your video, despite the fact that you didn't adjust the audio's playback speed, confirms that you are not converting to NTSC properly.

For instance, many people incorrectly use frame decimation to convert 25->23.97fps, or god forbid frame duplication to convert from 25->29.97fps. Either method retains the same playback time and thus if you convert your subtitles to NTSC they will run 4% slower and no longer sync. If you converted to 29.97fps without using a telecine filter than no wonder your subs don't sync.

I can't say I recommend FulciLive's suggested avisynth script. I really don't see the point of it. You will be throwing away alot of quality by converting a 25fps progressive source to 29.97fps interlaced. If all you wanted to do was keep the playtime the same then just do changefps(23.976). But even this is not ideal. As FulciLives suggested before, it is extremely easy to just slow it down to 23.976fps and apply pulldown flags, and this is by far the highest quality method to use.

Have you tried just using the assumefps(23.976) command in avisynth? This is the only proper way to convert progressive PAL footage to NTSC via avisynth. If you use any other command than the subs will not sync.

Just to clarify, assumefps retains the same number of frames but just speeds up or slows down the speed at which they run. This is the proper way to convert between 25fps and 23.976fps.

changefps either adds or removes frames to change the framerate. The total playtime stays the same, but playback become choppy for obvious reasons. Assuming you do not have a "damaged" source, there is really no reason to ever use this function.

If you just want to use TMPGenc to do the conversion than you need to set the framerate to 23.976fps, enable the 3:2 pulldown while playback option on the video tab, and you MUST enable the "do not framerate conversion" filter on the advanced tab. If you don't do this then it will use frame decimation to change the fps.

If for some strange reason you wanted to convert to 29.97fps directly, then you MUST use the 3:2 pulldown filter on the advanced tab. Really, the only reason to ever do this would be if you needed to directly transfer to an analogue medium.

However you do the conversion you will also have to adjust the audio's playback speed. You need to slow it down by about 4.03%. BeSweet's internal regional format conversion option works well for this.

If you aren't already, then I suggest you follow one of the PAL->NTSC conversion guides on this site, because it seems you are mixing and matching conversion methods. Just because two streams both started out at 25fps and ended up at 29.97fps doesn't mean they will still be in sync.

[FulciLives]

Well the AVS script is really intended for INTERLACED PAL to NTSC but can be used with a PROGRESSIVE PAL source as well.

It is NOT the best solution for PROGRESSIVE PAL but it does work and the new NTSC video will be the same running length.

I suggested this method because he wants to keep the subs seperate yet still sync up.

I don't know how to convert subs without loading them into the AviSynth script and burning them into the image.

This is why I suggested the method that keeps the new NTSC the same length as the original PAL that way the subs do not have to be changed and kept seperate.

When I do something with subs I load them into the script so they get burned into the image and no sync problems that way.

I just don't know how to take a sub file timed for PAL and retime it for NTSC and keep it seperate.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman