Ultimate computer

[nissmo300]

Can you guys list the best parts to build a computer. For example, what is the best:

1. Motherboard
2. CPU
3. Memory
4. Hard Drive
5. Video Card
6. Sound Card

List the best hardware in for these categories...

[The village idiot]

1. four or more 64 bit processors
2. 64 bit processors
3. Memory that fits the above board about 8GB worth
4. 10,000 rpm SCSI LVD320 drives in raid 5+ configuration
5. not really sure about this, something with several DVI outputs
6. not sure again

Via has a 4 processor Optoron board, not sure I would reccommend that one, but maybe someone else's board.

[holistic]

Price range? ... .
Best today or a week from now.!
RED ones are BEST.

[freestyler]

15K Scsis would do a better job

[nissmo300]

1. four or more 64 bit processors
2. 64 bit processors
3. Memory that fits the above board about 8GB worth
4. 10,000 rpm SCSI LVD320 drives in raid 5+ configuration
5. not really sure about this, something with several DVI outputs
6. not sure again

I dont mean this high tech. I meant for the average person. For example an Intel or Asus motherboard. Western Digital 250 Hard Drive... etc...

[mrtristan]

This is an extremely open ended, highly opinionated subject. I would suggest you set a budget and say what you're going to use the computer for.

[The village idiot]

1. four or more 64 bit processors
2. 64 bit processors
3. Memory that fits the above board about 8GB worth
4. 10,000 rpm SCSI LVD320 drives in raid 5+ configuration
5. not really sure about this, something with several DVI outputs
6. not sure again

I dont mean this high tech. I meant for the average person. For example an Intel or Asus motherboard. Western Digital 250 Hard Drive... etc...

What do you mean? That is only slightly above what I would normally run . If I had the room and money available I would have never built this SS50 that I use, it would have been a dual something or other. And quads are just starting to move into the nearly expensive range. I would still say a dual with either firewire 800 ide raid, or internal ide raid, maybe now SATA raid. I really wish Intel didn't screw everyone with the P4. Notice that only the Xeon is MP capable, not the whole line like it was with the PIII and lower. That was the other thing that divided the Pentiums from the Celerons, celerons would not do SMP.

[The village idiot]

BTW, you did say best

[nissmo300]

I was thinking along the lines of this kind of setup:

1. Asus P4C800 E-Deluxe P4 875P/FSB800
2. Intel Pentium 4 3.20 (800FSB & HT)
3. 1GB Corsair DDR500 Mhz PC4000 64-bit Dual-Channel
4. Dual 250 GB Western Digital Sata-500 RAID
5. nVidia GeForce FX5900 Ultra 256MB 850Mhz DDR
6. SoundBlaster Audigy 2 7.1 Dolby Digital Surround Sound

7. 8X DVD+/-RW Plextor Dual Format DVD Burner


How is this system?

[housepig]

How is this system?

overpowered for playing Solitaire, yet underpowered for real-time High-Definition 3D animation rendering....

what do you want to do with it?

[pixel]

I was thinking along the lines of this kind of setup:

4. Dual 250 GB Western Digital Sata-500 RAID
5. nVidia GeForce FX5900 Ultra 256MB 850Mhz DDR
6. SoundBlaster Audigy 2 7.1 Dolby Digital Surround Sound

How is this system?

just my opinions:

try to find info on decibel levels for different sata hard drives, some can be quite loud. i have never used any western digital drives so don't know about them (i use seagate).

the ati 9800 256MB beats the fx5900 on all test runs, so go for ati.

i use an audigy 2. it's a quality sound card, much better than onboard audio.

[rallynavvie]

See, you already had something in mind, stop playin' us

Single processors are for chumps, get at least two of them working for you. Then you can do an encode on one CPU and play Battlefield on the other, or use both to do your encode to make it go twice as fast. Let's see the HT try that

If you do go dual get the latest Tyan board like the Thunder, or get the MSI K7D Master. Both have some nice onboard options. Then put two Athlon MP2800s on it. Drop about a GB of Mushkin RAM in it and the board is set. For hard drives you may as well start out using SATA since it seems to be here for good. SCSI is great but it gets expensive fast, especially SCSI RAID. Get some WD Raptors or something. The video card isn't very useful for digital video surprisingly, so unless you're doing 3D effects just an average card will do. The GeForce vs Radeon bit is played out, get whatever one you can find a better deal on. Better yet get a hardware MPEG encoder like the Canopus DV Storm 2 so you can save on some of the processor speed for work with MPEG2. For an audio card I use the Hercules cards, I get IRQ conflicts with SB products.

What am I missing?

[BJ_M]

see my profile

[The village idiot]

see my profile

I was waiting for that

That quad must be nice to work with. And it does qualify for supercomputer status at a sustaied greater than 1 Gigaflops per for all tasks, though I think most dual Xeon P4 will also make that mark now as well as new dual Macs.

[808smokey]

I would buy AMD vs. Intel. They always out perform Intel. Besides that look at the date stamped on the CPU. Brand outta the box Processors usually have a date made stamp from 2 years ago. Which can only mean one thing.... What do they have on the shelves right now... 5gig, 6 gig...10GIG!!! Intel is going down the tubes and will outta business in the next 5 years.

Just my .02¢

[pixel]

I would buy AMD vs. Intel. They always out perform Intel. Besides that look at the date stamped on the CPU. Brand outta the box Processors usually have a date made stamp from 2 years ago. Which can only mean one thing.... What do they have on the shelves right now... 5gig, 6 gig...10GIG!!! Intel is going down the tubes and will outta business in the next 5 years.

Just my .02¢

From my experiences I have never met an AMD that outperforms a same spec Intel. All my processors have had a date stamp that is only a month old so I don't know how you have got that info, unless you are buying older processors that don't sell quickly and a re left on the shelves for a long time. Intel will not go down the tubes, they have too much funding to make that happen (corporate contracts, governement contracts etc.), plus they have a new processor round the corner (probably will not be 64bit though which would be pretty dissapointing).

On your point though, there is now not much difference in processors (the main real difference being the safety function of the Intels), and the new 64bit AMDs with 1MB of L2 cache do look pretty good in comparison to the Intels on the market at the moment. It is all because Intel went slow and decided the P4 could ride it out for a bit longer.

[BJ_M]

I would buy AMD vs. Intel. They always out perform Intel. Besides that look at the date stamped on the CPU. Brand outta the box Processors usually have a date made stamp from 2 years ago. Which can only mean one thing.... What do they have on the shelves right now... 5gig, 6 gig...10GIG!!! Intel is going down the tubes and will outta business in the next 5 years.

Just my .02¢

cpus you buy in the box are not made 2 years ago unless you buy a 2 year old one on purpose (where the heck do you shop?) ...

intel is not going down the tubes anytime soon ... in fact the cpu p4 bussness is only a small part of thier overall company ..

[stiltman]

Brand outta the box Processors usually have a date made stamp from 2 years ago.

Why are you buying 2 year old chips? It does save you money

Which can only mean one thing.... What do they have on the shelves right now... 5gig, 6 gig...10GIG!!! Intel is going down the tubes and will outta business in the next 5 years.
Just my .02¢

Hate to hear what you can come up with if you spend 3 cents instead of 2

[808smokey]

I'm not saying go and buy 2 year old chips. I'm saying that AMD devleoped the technolgy 2 years ago. Even there new 64 chips are over a year old. Intel can't keep up. As soon as intel put out there best chip, AMD giggles and says OK, wait... BAM!!! here's something better that we've had for 2 years. Look at this chip, the latest and greatest:

AMD Athlon 64 ADA3200AEP5AP
1MB L2 Cache, 1600 Mhz Bus, The ONLY 64-bit Windows Compatible PC Processor

http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=19-103-413-01.JPG

See the date on it? 2001

[BJ_M]

thats a copywrite for thier logo date .. not the date the chip was made..

chips are patented -- not copywrited ..

AMD devleoped the technolgy 2 years ago

what technolgy ? I have had 64bit workstations made in 1996 even .. we have many now -- 64bit chips been around a LONG time (ask HP , IBM SGI , and others) ..

AMD has some really great products - there is no doubt ... but so does intel .. im just glad there are both because we all reap the rewards ..

[808smokey]

I find that hard to believe.

what technolgy ? I have had 64bit workstations made in 1996 even .. we have many now -- 64bit chips been around a LONG time (ask HP , IBM SGI , and others) ..

You've had 64 bit processors since 1996. That's impossible.

AMD launched the first AMD64 processor, the AMD Opteron™ processor for servers and workstations, on April 22, 2003. AMD will launch the next AMD64 processor, the AMD Athlon™ 64 processor – the first and only 64-bit processor for Windows®-based desktop and mobile PCs – on September 23, 2003.

[BJ_M]

i'm sorry to burst your bubble -- but you may have to learn a lot of computers and advertising untruths..

also -- read CAREFULLY amd's marketing hype (which even then is not 100% correct) , they may also have hired someone from apple's marketing dept. - as apple is also advertising nonsense..

the first and only 64-bit processor for Windows®-based desktop and mobile PCs

Windows NT 4 was available for alpha systems several years ago and you can still buy it (it comes on the standard install cd and is still sold for embedded systems .. the alpha chip is/was a 64 bit chip and nt4 ran great on it . So AMD is smoking crack on that point , there were even alpha based laptops built !! ..

AMD launched the first AMD64 processor

well yes -- i suppose AMD DID build the first AMD 64 bit proccessor , just like NEC built thier proccessor and MIPS built thier proccessor and IBM built thiers also and so forth ... and so on ..

Now a little history on some of the systems I use -- which back in 1992 were producing 64bit cpu 's for workstations (and still are)

MIPS R8000
Brief Description
The first superscalar implementation of the MIPS architecture is the R8000 (code name "TFP") that has been introduced in July 1994. It is a 64bit RISC microprocessor with strong emphasis on floating point performance, that is spcifically designed for supercomputing applications.

Key Features
Multicomponent chipset consisting of an integer unit (IU), floating-point unit (FPU), tag RAMs, and 4 MB of data-streaming cache
True 64-bit microprocessor with 64-bit integer and floating-point operations, registers, and virtual addresses
Funcitonal Units: 2x Load/Store, 2x ALU, 1x Shifter, 1x Integer Multiply/Divide, 2x FPU
Four-way superscalar architecture, so 4 functional units can operate concurrently (any combination allowed)
16 KB of instruction cache (I-cache) in IU, 16 KB of dual-ported data cache (D-cache) in IU, 1 K entries of branch prediction cache
Memory Management Unit (MMU) in IU contains a 384-entry, dual-ported, three-way set associative Translation Lookaside Buffer (TLB)
ANSI/IEEE-754 standard floating-point coprocessor with imprecise interrupts
32 double-word (64-bit) general-purpose registers in IU and 32 double-word (64-bit) floating-point registers in FPU
128-bit data bus and a separate 40-bit address bus that can access up to 1 TB of physical memory
Full compatibility with earlier 32-bit and 64-bit MIPS microprocessors
Further Information
SGI - MIPS R8000 (TFP) Microprocessor Chip Set
R8000 press release
Systems that use this processor
POWER Indigo 2 <-- this is a small desktop workstation
POWER Onyx <-- this is a bit bigger workstation
POWER Challenge <-- a server



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MIPS R4000
Brief Description
The R4x00 processors have been available and used in different versions. PC (as in "R4000PC") denotes primary cache only and SC denotes secondary cache. The MC versions contain special support for cache architectures in multiprocessor systems. As all R4x00 series processors the R4000 is a 64bit processor and implements the MIPS III instruction set thus making the processor compatible to its predecessors. They contain 32 64bit integer registers and 32 64bit floating point registers, are superpiplined (8 stages) and approach an execution rate of one instruction per cycle. It also contains an onbaord MMU with a TLB (to provide rapid virtual to physical address translation) and contains an on-chip floating point unit. The R4000 contains an 8KB instruction and 8KB data cache for a total of 16KB of on-chip 1st level cache.

Further Information
Download MIPS R4000 Microprocessor User's Guide from techpubs.sgi.com
Systems that use this processor
Challenge S
Challenge M
Crimson
Indigo
Indigo 2
Indy

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MIPS R10000
Brief Description
The MIPS R10000 ("T5"), which has been made avaiable in 1995, is the first 4-issue superscalar processor in the MIPS history. As the R8000, which has been released a year before, the R10000 implements the MIPS IV ISA and is a true 64bit processor, but in contrast to the R8000 the R10000 is a single chip processor. It includes 32 KB 1st level data and 32 KB 1st level instruction cache for a total of 64 KB on chip 1st level cache. The processor has 5 functional units that actually process the instruction: 2 integer units, 2 floating point units and 1 load/store unit. The pipeline length depends on the functional unit an instruction must pass. The pipeline length is 5 stages for integer, 6 for load/store and 7 for floating point instructions.

Key Features
ANDES Advanced Superscalar Architecture
Supports four instructions per cycle
Two integer and two floating-point execute instructions plus one load/store per cycle
High-performance design
3.3 volt technology
Out-of-order instruction execution
128-bit dedicated secondary cache data bus
On-chip integer, FP, and address queues
Five separate execution units
MIPS IV instruction set architecture
High Integration Chip-Set
32 KB 2-way set associative, 2-way interleaved data cache with LRU replacement algorithm
32 KB 2-way set associative instruction cache
64 entry translation lookaside buffer
Dedicated second level cache support
Second Level Cache Support
Dedicated 128-bit Data Bus
Generation of all necessary SSRAM signals
3.2 GB per second peak data transfer rate
Programmable clock rate to SSRAM
Compatible with Industry Standards
ANSI/IEEE Standard 754-1985 for binary floating-point arithmetic
MIPS III instruction set compatible
Conforms to MESI cache consistency protocol
IEEE Standard 1149.1/D6 boundary scan architecture
Avalanche Bus System Interface
Direct connect to SSRAM
Split transaction support
Programmable interface
Further Information
Download MIPS IV Instruction Set from techpubs.sgi.com
Download MIPS R10000 Microprocessor User Guide, Version 2.0 from techpubs.sgi.com
SGI - MIPS R10000 (T5) Superscalar Microprocessor
The MIPS R10000 Superscalar Microprocessor
Byte Magazine Nov/94: T5: Brute Force
R10000 press release
Systems that use this processor
Indigo 2
O2
Octane
Octane 2
Onyx
Onyx 2
Challenge


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MIPS R12000
Brief Description
The architecture of the R12000 processor, that has been introduced in 1998, is very similar to the one used in the R10000 processors. Some characteristics of this processor:

MIPS IV instruction set
4-way superscalar 64-bit architecture
Out-of-order instruction execution
32KB instruction cache
32KB data cache
128-bit dedicated secondary cache bus
5 separate execution units
Further Information
Byte Magazine Jan/98: RISC Fights Back with the Mips R12000
Systems that use this processor
O2
O2+
Octane 2
Origin 3000


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MIPS R14000
Brief Description
Like the R12000 the R14000 CPU is an enhanced version of the R10000 architecture.

Further Information
Systems that use this processor
Fuel
Octane 2
Origin 300
Origin 3000


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MIPS R16000
Brief Description
Like the R12000 and R14000 the R16000 CPU is an enhanced version of the R10000 architecture.

Product Description
Four-way superscalar, 64-bit architecture
Out-of-order instruction execution
Five separate execution units
MIPS IV instruction set
32KB two-way set-associative on-chip instruction cache
Further Information
Systems that use this processor
Fuel


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PMC-Sierra RM7000
Brief Description
SGI lists the following characteristics for the RM7000A processor in the O2+ product specifications:

Dual-issue symmetric superscalar microprocessor with instruction prefetch
MIPS®IV superset instruction set architecture
Integrated primary and secondary caches
16KB instruction, 16KB data, and 256KB on-chip secondary cache
Per-line cache locking in primary and secondary cache
Further Information
Systems that use this processor
O2+


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General Ressources
Microprocessor History
Great Microprocessors of the Past and Present
Unix and RISC, a New Hope
RISC Refined: Berkeley RISC, Stanford MIPS . .

[chiapet]

OMFG i am so techie illiterate that i haven't a clue as to the things you people are talking about.

Don't get me wrong, i'd love to know and learn but just looking at all that makes my head hurt and my eyes bleed.

Where can i go to get edumacated in this area (besides school, don't have $$$$ to spend in addition to the computer).

[holistic]

chiapet , start here : http://www.google.com/ ... an excellent resource.

Simply ask the question , then pick out the BS (this takes a little learning) to find relevent infomation.

Example : What is mpeg2
Returns --> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=What+is+mpeg2&btnG=Google+Search
(this may vary - depending on the filter settings you have chosen in google.)
From there i selected : http://www.mpeg2.de/ then http://www.mpeg2.de/doc/index.htm

I got lucky there because I knew what i was looking for. The procedure is valid for most searches.

ANOTHER ......... What is firewire .... returns : http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=what+is+firewire
Selecting : http://www.dvcentral.org/Firewire.html gives a good answer.

The "trick" here is to read the supplied answer, THEN goto another site and compare. The problem with the internet ,compared to published works such as Encyclopædia Britannica is that there is no control over the content. My observations have come to the following conclusion : There is an excessive amount of plagiarism (hehe - type that into google) on the net. Couple that with people with no intrest/desire to follow up and confirm what they have copied and you end up with disinformation.

The internet, local library and a good search engine has taught me volumes. I have learnt (self taught) all I know with those resources.
Mind you ,as I said "take with a grain of salt" what you read on the web. Once backed up with a published article the content has credability.

BELIEVE ME ............. OR NOT

Point of note : There is an abundence af info on this site to confuse and amuse for weeks of reading. Just refer to the "how to - guides" ."other" section for media/player/software info

[808smokey]

BJ_M your right

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (June 7, 1994) -MIPS Technologies, Inc. today announced the world's fastest commercially available supercomputing microprocessor, the 64-bit RISC MIPS R8000 chip set. Specifically optimized for supercomputing

If your referring to supercomputers... But who the hell has supercomputers on there desk at home or work?

The Athlon 64 isn't the first 64-bit processor your right but it is the first x86-64 processor, meaning that it is able to run 32-bit and 64-bit code seamlessly. As far as dates go I wasn't talking about the Copyright.. Look at the date code. Also how do they copyright something that doesn't exist? Other than that I'm done argueing with you.

[BJ_M]

BJ_M your right

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (June 7, 1994) -MIPS Technologies, Inc. today announced the world's fastest commercially available supercomputing microprocessor, the 64-bit RISC MIPS R8000 chip set. Specifically optimized for supercomputing

If your referring to supercomputers... But who the hell has supercomputers on there desk at home or work?

The Athlon 64 isn't the first 64-bit processor your right but it is the first x86-64 processor, meaning that it is able to run 32-bit and 64-bit code seamlessly. As far as dates go I wasn't talking about the Copyright.. Look at the date code. Also how do they copyright something that doesn't exist? Other than that I'm done argueing with you.

if you read the info i posted above -- you will notice that they built several (many) desktop workstations with the same chip.. these were small workstations , but very powerfull (at the time) ..

[ofbarea]

The best CPU?

According to Tom's Hardware Guide:

Summary: The P4 3.2 EE wins 32 times, the Athlon 64 FX-51 15 times - an uncertain 64-bit future for AMD

Take a look http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-53.html