capturing using ATI MMC

[qwerty99]

i have an ati all in wonder 128 pro agp and i'm using a the ati mmc 7.1 that came with the card. but when i capture there is a problem the audio and video are out of sync. i use the same settings with virtualdub and it works fine, but i would prefer to use the ati software. the settings i'm using is huffyuv, frame rate 15 and 640 x 480. anyone know why this is happening?

[dlb]

Lordsmurf has a good guide using ATI cards.

Go to www.lordsmurf.com

dlb.

[qwerty99]

the guide didn't really help cause i know how to use the software. i just don't know how to fix this error

[non-linear]

Are you dropping any frames?

We could probably help you better if you filled out your computer profile.

[Duchess]

MMC 7.1 is hopeless. Go to the ATI website and download the latest version, it's free so it isn't going to break the bank. I think you will find that it cures your problem

[bottle-necked]

The 128 is a good card and is capable of capturing quality video in either AVI or MPEG.

I've had V7.1, 7.5, 7.6,7.7, and 8.6 MMCs. The first 3 versions are not very good. The 7.7 is fine and the 8.6 is ok too. You can upgrade straight to the newest 8.6 version but I've read about some problems using that version with the 128 card. I would then try 7.7. You can probably find all the older versions of MMC at the ATI site.


The latest CATALYST is something else. When I had an older SoundBlaster Live card and upgraded to the latest CAT, my CPU load went way to high. I fixed it by uninstalling the CAT and using my older version driver. I now have an new Audigy2 card and it works with the new CAT just fine. You'll need to experiment.

If you can write down the average CPU load (before and after modifications) using preset capture templates of various sizes and compressions, you will be able to see any improvement. If you're having trouble now with video quality and audio sync I'd say your CPU load is very high.

Question: Why 15 fps? That is making me think your drive isn't fast enough to keep up with 29.97. Lower the framesize.(?)

Good luck.

[pixel]

It may be because the ATI software doesn't like some ATI codecs and causes these to be out of sync.

It may also be because you are capturing in 15fps (though it shouldn't be) and the software can't keep the audio and video in sync.

You should try upgrading at least to 8.1 because I downloaded 8.6 and the newest catalysts (which I think is what I was already using) and have started dropping more frames than I did in 8.1 (even though I have just upgraded to a better CPU now).

I don't know if it is MMC 8.6 that is causing it or the drivers, so I will try using older versions of both. At least if you upgrade to 8.xx you will be able to capture 48000Hz audio.

[non-linear]

MMC 7.1 is hopeless. Go to the ATI website and download the latest version

The current version is 8.5. I think it'd be better to download 8.5. It's still available for download at the ATI website:

Multimedia Center 8.5
http://www2.ati.com/drivers/mmc-8-5-0-0.exe

Also, there's 8.1

Multimedia Center 8.1
http://www2.ati.com/drivers/mmc-8-1-0-0.exe

Since it's a AIW 128 Pro series, I don't know if anything over 8.1 would be supported (I remember not being able to use 8.5 on my old AIW 128 card, don't know if the Pro series is the same thing).

You could try installing one of those. Other than that, I'm stumped.

Good luck.

[bottle-necked]

It may be because the ATI software doesn't like some ATI codecs and causes these to be out of sync.

pixel, I've always wondered why ATI supplied .vcr codec with its cards. It's a modified version of MPEG2 (I think). I wonder if their cards are more suited for that codec instead of MPEG2.

I think dropped frames and audio sync problems can be traced to a bottle-necked point in the system. Either something suffering from compatibility issues or something that's too slow to keep up with the flow of things. I've had various problems in the past and they were all caused by these 'bottle-necked' problems.

My little worn out 1900+ can capture 720x480 8Mbps VBR MPEG2 and only run around 55% CPU load. There are no dropped frames even at the begenning. The quality of the video is 'close' to the original. I can capture 704x480 AVI/Huffy (default) with no problems with a CPU load averaging around 35%. I don't have some magic system, but I've worked pretty hard to eliminate my bottle-necks. ATI MMC hasn't been as consistant writing to my RAID controller as other software can. I eventually narrowed that down to a driver compatibility issue between ATI and VIA. I finally downgraded my RAID driver to a version ATI could use. Again, another bottle-neck.

Good luck.

[qwerty99]

non-linear: i don't think its dropping frames. when i capture in mpeg 1 or 2 then it drops frames. but i'm using huffyuv. i'll try installing the new version. i'll upgrade to the 8.1 version. my computer info is a pentium 4 2.0 ghz 384mb ram

bottle-necked: the reason i did 15 is cause that what i used with virtualdub and it takes up less space. but i'll try it with 29.97. i have 30gb free for capturing

[qwerty99]

i don't think the 8.1 upgrade will work. it works for:
ALL-IN-WONDER 9700 SERIES
ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 8500 (128M)
ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 8500DV
ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON 7500
ALL-IN-WONDER RADEON
ALL-IN-WONDER VE PCI
RADEON 9700 SERIES
RADEON 9500 SERIES
RADEON 9100 SERIES
RADEON 9000 SERIES
RADEON 8500 SERIES
RADEON 7500 SERIES
RADEON 7200 SERIES
RADEON 7000 SERIES

i have a all in wonder 128 pro. i think i can only upgrade it to the 7.9 version. that was under win 2000 -> multimedia center -> all in wonder 128 pro family. i clicked on the ATI-TV WONDER link for the 7.2 version and the newest one was 7.9 . is that the one i'm suppose to upgrade to?

[bottle-necked]

I've read it both ways, "it won't work and it will work". Like I said, I've read that the versions of MMC newer than V7.7 might not work well with that 128. I'd use the 7.7 then later try the new CAT driver. Don't try them both at once. If you have trouble you won't know which one is causing it.(?)

Just do your tests, you'll know pretty quick that way. The 7.7 is a good driver and a nice upgrade from the 7.1. You'll like it. But, the new 8.6 might also work and it's nicer than the 7.7.

Use control panel 'add/remove programs' to remove your old version of MMC then install the newer version after you reboot. If you need to go back just do the above again. It won't hurt it either way.

Good luck.

[qwerty99]

where do i get the 7.7 version from? i could only find the 7.9 version. shouldn't the 7.9 version work since it shows that in the 128 pro section?

[Nelson37]

Had the same card, 7.6 was OK and 7.7 was better, 48K audio, worked well. No dropped frames, Mpg-1 and Mpg-2, AVI needs some tweaking but better than Vdub, with different soundcards sometimes dropped 5-10 at the beginning. Getting 7.7 working was a real adventure, could not get 8.1 working after several attempts, finally bought a Radeon just to get Max and Avg bitrate settings! For $79.95 it was worth it!

If you attempt MMC upgrades, get the de-installation guide at Rage3d and Follow It! Every time, and make sure and curse ATI while doing it. When you download the new components and Catalyst drivers, get the last 2 or three versions of each, you may have to mix and match. Something as simple as re-booting (or not) at a certain point, even if the software tells you to, can make the difference. At one point I had everything in 8.1 working EXCEPT the TV app. And no, for those of you who have suffered thru this, the HardwareInit switch didn't work, the install directory swap trick, the asx files, nothing. Though I have seen some reports af AIW 128 users who have it working.

Last I checked 8.6 users were reporting many problems, from 8.1 it doesn't add much except EasyLook.

[qwerty99]

does anyone know the link to the 7.7 upgrade? i was having trouble finding it

[elkfir]

Here's link to page with older drivers:

http://www.ati.com/support/products/radeonwinmepreviousdrivers.html

MMC 7.7.0.1 is down there somewhere

[lordsmurf]

i have an ati all in wonder 128 pro agp and i'm using a the ati mmc 7.1 that came with the card. but when i capture there is a problem the audio and video are out of sync. i use the same settings with virtualdub and it works fine, but i would prefer to use the ati software. the settings i'm using is huffyuv, frame rate 15 and 640 x 480. anyone know why this is happening?

Frame rate 15 ?
PAL=25, NTSC=29.97

I suggest ATI MMC 7.7 only if MMC 8.1 or 8.5 won't install.

I'm not sure if the PRO card will take to MMC 8.x, but it should. I know that others here have some registry trick for non-Radeon cards, but not sure this would be needed. If I ever find it again, I'll including an ATI installation manual at lordsmurf.com.

The new 8.6 has some issues that were introduced. And honestly, nothing really changed from 8.1 to 8.6 besides the number.

The 7.7 was the first stable one. The 7.1 didn't even report dropped frames.

This PRO card in use has the same capture chip as the AIW RADEON cards. So the card is fine.

You may want to blanket uninstall all ATI software and ALL codecs on your system. Then put back ONLY what is needed, starting with DirectX 9 and the ATI MMC 8.1. Then put back HuffYUV. Do not add any codec packs like NIMO.

Put back XVID, Divx, whatever after you have the capturing operating perfectly.

And if you're not editing, consider MPEG capture.

[qwerty99]

elkfir i have windows 2000 not ME. do you know the link for win 2000? also the link is for the radeon card. would that work for the 128 pro?

[elkfir]

qwerty99,
From what I gather from above posts, it should work with 128 pro (I don't know, I have Radeon). ATI doesn't indicate on their site.

There isn't a specific link for Win2000, but here's link for XP:

http://www.ati.com/support/products/radeonwinxppreviousdrivers.html

You'll notice however that the link to MMC 7.7.0.1 is exactly the same for XP as for 98/ME:

http://www2.ati.com/drivers/mmc-7-7-0-1-noDVD.exe

In other words, 7.7.0.1 is 7.7.0.1, no matter what OS you're using. It either works, or it doesn't.

[qwerty99]

ok thanks. i'll try that

[qwerty99]

i installed the ati mmc 7.7 version. it didn't help, the audio and video are still out of sync. and now it keeps making a folder in my d drive called ATI MMC. i'm not even saving anything in the d drive and it doesn't save any files in that folder but it keeps making it everytime i start it. how do i make it stop making that folder?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Try PowerVCRII for 30 days(free),I use it and it works great.

[qwerty99]

the thing is i want to use ati mmc cause its easier to use. if i had to choose something other than that i would choose virtualdub. so i just need to figure out why ati mmc is capturing the audio and video out of sync

[lordsmurf]

Try PowerVCRII for 30 days(free),I use it and it works great.

Two questions for you:

1. Do you just live with deinterlacing or did you run the PowerVCRII registry hack?

2. How did you get around the 44.1 audio error, where the 44.1hz audio gets a 48hz audio flag, and the demultiplex of files in either Womble or TMPGEnc causes the audio to lose sync with video ?

Hi,

I've read elsewhere about a site that teaches how to make an ATI "clean trouble free" install;

The site is 3drage.com, but it doesn't work, does anyone have the apropriate information ?

Thanks,

Andre

[lordsmurf]

Hi, I've read elsewhere about a site that teaches how to make an ATI "clean trouble free" install; The site is 3drage.com, but it doesn't work, does anyone have the apropriate information ? Thanks, Andre

Best thing is to clean out the registry, delete all folders, and uninstall as best as possible. Also scan the Win\SYSTEM and SYSTEM32 folders for ATI files, and delete them.

I was just at the rage forums the other day, though I'm not sure you got the right address for it. It was up.

After all that, reinstall the newest ATI drivers and ATI MMC 8.1 or 8.5 (not 8.6). The newest drivers come as a single package for install (FINALLY!!!!).

[MOVIEGEEK]

Try PowerVCRII for 30 days(free),I use it and it works great.

Two questions for you:

1. Do you just live with deinterlacing or did you run the PowerVCRII registry hack?

2. How did you get around the 44.1 audio error, where the 44.1hz audio gets a 48hz audio flag, and the demultiplex of files in either Womble or TMPGEnc causes the audio to lose sync with video ?

1.I don't interlace my DVD's and most of the time I use 720x480.I did a test on my standalones between inter. and deinter. and it makes no differance.BTW...what is this reg.hack you're talking about?
2.I either use TMPGEnc or VideoStudio 6 to convert the audio to 48khz,I've never had one capture->DVD go out of synch.

[lordsmurf]

I guarantee you that there is a huge quality difference between interlace and deinterlace (when using interlaced source). Read up on it here:
http://www.lordsmurf.com/capture/interlace.htm

As far as the hack, it'll appear on my site later this month. It's a bit too involved to explain without a guide.