Editing AVIs (Huge file sizes)

[moorthy]

I've just captured a 3 hour AVI using Virtual VCR and the PICVideo codec.

The resulting file was 36 Gigs in size.

I used VirtualDUB to edit out all of the commercials, and then clicked on "Save As AVI" to save my masterpiece to my hard drive.

I figured that since the original was 36 gigs, my new file should be in the range of 32 gigs. (Which was okay since I was editing the original on my second 80 gig HD).

Boy, was I wrong. The hard drive was completely filled after no time at all.

Doing a test, I again edited the original three hour, 36 gig file, and isolated a TWO MINUTE portion of it. When saved, it was 3.7 gigs !!!!

Why are the edited avis so big?

Is there another program that I should be using to edit the files?

Thanks in advance.

[Gees]

What codec are you using? Or none at all - uncompressed?

Need more info to be able to help. There are too many flavors of avis.

[moorthy]

When capturing (with Virtual VCR) I use PICVideo.

When using VirtualDUB, I didn't select a codec. I didn't think that I needed to.

Dammit.

Will selecting a codec in VirtualDUB reduce my quality (will it re-encode after the edit)?

It would be nice to just go ahead and delete the commercials in my original AVI without any loss. Is there a better program out there to use?

Thanks.

[andkiich]

Sounds like VirtualDub saved the edit section as an uncompressed AVI.

[Gees]

If you edit - then save it choosing it's original codec - that is the smallest it will be without choosing another codec.

It's up to you to determine size vs. quality. Do another few 2 minute tests with different codecs and see which you're happy with.

I'm assuming you want to keep this file as an avi and not convert it further? Like to mpg for a DVD?

[moorthy]

I most definitely want to make a DVD out of it.

It's a football game that I've captured from my satellite dish.

What's the best way to edit out the commercials? Encode it to an MPEG first?

[Gees]

No - definitely always better to edit in avi.

So, if you are re-encoding to mpg later don't worry about the size of the avi. Leave it in as close to its original state as possible (ie - same codec).

YOU CAN... encode it straight to mpeg (after cuts) by frameserving through virtualdub to tempgenc. But you'd need to read up about that process if you never have. Too detailed to go into here.

[moorthy]

But....

If I capture using VirtualVCR and PICVideo codec, will I lose quality after editing in VirtualDUB and RE-SAVING the file using PICVideo codec?

Isn't it re-encoding?

And if so, is there a way (perhaps by using another program) of just deleting commercials without re-encoding?

Thanks.

[Gees]

no - well bare minimum (quality loss) - so long as you have all the settings identical.

You have no other choice unless you want to leave the commercials in.

No, there is no way to delete commercials, produce a new video and not have to re-render it. It's impossible.

- read my post above and study up on frameserving if you want to attempt that. That would skip the interim step of a second avi, BUT you still have to render - except straight to mpeg.

[ZippyP.]

If all you're doing with Vdub is editting out certain parts then there is no need for re-rendering (or recompression). Simply mark and delete the parts, make sure that audio and video are set to "direct stream copy" then save avi. Simple as that.

[Gees]

Zippy - I think the confusion was at the "Save as" stage (which I'd call rendering). :c) That's without any - what I'd call re-encoding - changes to format, codec, etc.

There was another post tonight with same thing, basically "can't I save the edited video without having to make a new video?"

I feel confident the answer is: no, you can't. :c)


PS Good luck with your software choice. I think you can do nicely for far less than you'd set your budget at. :c)

[burdo]

i noticed the same thing a 3 min selection was bigger than my original 12 min avi heh. but I have a weird problem with vdub just stopping around the 4 min mark. The preview vid just goes blank. It happens with all my clips. Im trying to put my homne movies in order instead of it jumping all around.. any help would be appreciated
Forgot
AMD 2200xp
512mb ram
Winxp home
Captured with 8mm cam through advc1394 using WINDV
ran the error test in vdub and clips had no error
the clips are 2.7gig a piece
thx here is the topic
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180938

[Gees]

Burdo - you'd do better to put your question in a new thread since it's different than this topic. Give it a title that describes it as best you can (ie: Vdub blank screen after 4 min.) and provide as much info as you have. File properites, what you are trying to do in Vdub, what version you use, etc.

I'm sure you'll get responses that way.

Good luck.

[drisley]

I've just captured a 3 hour AVI using Virtual VCR and the PICVideo codec.

The resulting file was 36 Gigs in size.

I used VirtualDUB to edit out all of the commercials, and then clicked on "Save As AVI" to save my masterpiece to my hard drive.

I figured that since the original was 36 gigs, my new file should be in the range of 32 gigs. (Which was okay since I was editing the original on my second 80 gig HD).

Boy, was I wrong. The hard drive was completely filled after no time at all.

Doing a test, I again edited the original three hour, 36 gig file, and isolated a TWO MINUTE portion of it. When saved, it was 3.7 gigs !!!!

Why are the edited avis so big?

Is there another program that I should be using to edit the files?

Thanks in advance.

After editing in virtualdub, set both the video and audio to "Direct Stream Copy".
That way it will just cut and splice, and save in original codec. No recompression, no loss of quality.

[mats.hogberg]

If you want to turn it into a DVD, then load it up in VirtualDub, edit out what you don't want, then frameserve to your encoder to encode it to a DVD compliant mpeg. By frameserving, there's no need to save out the edited version as a separate file (that you just save out to encode to mpeg anyway).

/Mats

[Gees]

Mats. I did say that a while back. :c) Hopefully, they are studying up on it right now. Huge time and disk space saver. :c) Everyone should be doing it.

[Dragonsf]

Maybe avisnyth can do the same faster (i.e. framserving)

[andkiich]

One other option might be to do as I have done many times, I open TMPGENc and encode the pieces of the video that I want directly from the original AVI, in the bitrate that you will use in the final DVD.

[Gazorgan]

You have to direct stream copy the Audio and Video, no processing.

I do this all the time, then delete the original. This gives you a commercial free capture that you can then use in batch encodes ( never try to batch encode frameservers ). You can frameserve and skip the save step, but if it crashes your SOL.

[Schmendrick]

I must agree to andkiich. Use the ProjectWizard within TMPGEnc and select Source range on the third screen of the ProjectWizard, then mark a commercial and cut it out, repeat this until you have cut out all you want and finally encode to an authoring compatible DVD-MPEG2-Format. A prerequisite for TMPGEnc is that you have to have the audio in uncompressed PCM-Audio-Format. TMPGEnc is not able to read MP3-audio.
If the cutting precision within the source range window is too low then you cannot avoid to use VirtualDub for cutting, with direct stream copy checked for video to avoid reencoding and direct stream copy for audio if it is PCM-audio or if your MPEG2-encoder can read the compressed audio.

CU

Schmendrick

[burdo]

Wow frameserving is no joke, I tried it with cce and i must say fast and easy way to trim those avis to the desired positioning. Is there a way to set multiple starting points and ends for batch frameserving?? That is the only downfall you cant set it and walk away. But still very nice. All I need to do is find some music to mux in heh..

[mats.hogberg]

That's true - you save yourself a lot of trouble, time and HD space by frameserving, but, alas, there's no batch frame serving.

/Mats

[johns0]

you can do batch encoding with tmpgenc,just start frameserving,load the file into tmpgenc and then choose source ranges and save project and and batch encode the projects.

[RoopeT]

Frameserving the simple way: Avisynth. Just open your video in VDub, write down where you want to cut (frame numbers) and create a small script:

Avisource("capture.avi")
trim(0,15000)+trim(18000,33000)

what the script does: it returns the first 15000 frames of your video (10 minutes in PALland), then jumps 2 minutes ahead (a very short commercial break) and continues your video for another 10 mins from where the ads ended.

[Gazorgan]

Bah, there is always one in the group. A 3 hour capture has what...15 commercials? That's 30 break points down to the frame. I find VDUB easier, as I can preview my cuts....sometimes you want to chop the re-play (the 30 seconds that's played over after the commercial).

I do this all the time, and VDUB is easier and faster than AVISynth for commercial cutting on anything bigger than 30 minutes.

[SMHarman]

You could encode the entire block in TMPGEnc then using TMPGEnc Author mark the chapter points and also mark the sections to delete / exclude from the transfer to DVD I think.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/172123.php

Step 4 - use the cut function to remove the ads

[SaSi]

If all you're doing with Vdub is editting out certain parts then there is no need for re-rendering (or recompression). Simply mark and delete the parts, make sure that audio and video are set to "direct stream copy" then save avi. Simple as that.

I quote ZippyP again, since it's the obvious answer to the issue (of trimming and cutting unwanted parts within the video). The critical thing is, you need to select "Direct Stream Copy" before you go to save the new stream as a new AVI. This is the only way to trim without needing to re-encode.

There is only one slight detail, though. How you capture (which codec) is important. If you capture using, e.g. DivX with an index frame interval of 300 frames, then if you need to cut somewhere after the index frame you are in trouble. You can cut every 300 frames exactly, or re-encode.

For this reason, the best codecs for capture (when editing and trimming will follow) are the ones that only produce "index" frames, like hufyuv, MJPEG, etc. (And I used to capture using DivX enjoying the small file size).

[pijetro]

Gazorgan wrote:

Bah, there is always one in the group. A 3 hour capture has what...15 commercials? That's 30 break points down to the frame. I find VDUB easier, as I can preview my cuts....sometimes you want to chop the re-play (the 30 seconds that's played over after the commercial).

I do this all the time, and VDUB is easier and faster than AVISynth for commercial cutting on anything bigger than 30 minutes.

Do you let this stop you from using AVISynth?? I found a neet little program (VCFtoAVS). I cut out all the commercials, and save the .VCF file in VirtualDub. I load the .AVI and the .VCF that holds all the settings into this neat little program, and voila, a script with all the commercials cut out...You can also add multiple .AVIs and make your trims likewise...It's a lifesaver, for only 1 minute of extra work.....I'm using CCE, so it's a big difference for my encoding. No colourspace changes..

But back to the original post, if you don't wanna learn frameserving, then do as mentioned above. Video>direct stream copy, Audio>direct stream copy, File>Save as AVI .....

No, there's no recompression (direct stream copy is self explanitory)...

Oskiweewee dude!!!!!!! Good luck...