Which version of windows do you need to copy a DVD ?

[vega1970]

I've got an old PC (Pentium III 500MHz) but with a lot of memory (640Mb)
and disk space (40Gb free). It's running Windows ME.

I intend to buy a decent DVD-Writer (probably the new Plextor 708) within
the next 2 monthes.

I would like to use the writer to copy DVD-video disks. I especially would
like to copy one of my disk (the "Tomorrow never dies" movie) that's badly
scratch and which I can no longer read properly on standalone player.
I've already successfully copied it on VCDs, but I'm not happy with the
quality.

These things being said ... here's my question: I remember reading
somewhere that you can't write very big files (over 2 or 4 Gb ... can't
remember exactly) on a FAT32 partition. DVD iso files being bigger than
that ... does this mean that I have to upgrade to at least Windows 2000
to be able to burn DVD properly ?

[lordsmurf]

Yes.

(they all work)

[Gees]

The 4 gig limit is for any one file (in FAT32). When you back-up, it creates all the individual files, so you're OK, unless you attempt to make one file, like ISO.

I've successfully backed up DVDs on ME, but have since also added XP to the PC and it has definite advantages.

But yes, ME is fine for a backup.

[Gurm]

Right... as long as the individual files on the DVD are well under 2gigs.

This is NOT always the case.

But most programs have now been tailored/tweaked to NOT try to make files bigger than 2gb.

And remember you can't use ISOs ... AT ALL ... and sometimes a direct disc-to-disc copy will try to make a file that big on the HDD and that is bad too.

- Gurm

[housepig]

And remember you can't use ISOs ... AT ALL ...

before I built my NTFS video box, I made ISO's with DVD Decrypter under WinME (FAT32) - for discs that were over 4Gb, I would end up with a 4Gb ISO file and another file containing the excess 300Mb.

all backups made this way were perfect. don't know if this was an undocumented feature or what, but it worked for me...

[Gurm]

I find that hard to believe, since the maximum filesize in Win98 is 2GB, not 4GB.

I've heard other people make this claim that they had somehow made ISOs of that size - and it usually turned out that either they were confused, or they were using some sort of program that split up the files without them knowing about it.

I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, just 90%.

Because if you tried to make a file bigger than 2GB on a FAT32 system, you'd get a file error.

We've heard from lots of people who were like "gee it's always corrupted halfway through" because they were getting munched after the 2GB limit.

But on the other hand I've seen the rare machine here and there that IGNORED the 2GB limit, but those files were subject to pretty immediate corruption.

Perhaps if you ALWAYS burned IMMEDIATELY that wouldn't be so much of a problem, but you're DEFINITELY either confused or in a tiny minority.

- Gurm

[housepig]

Gurm -

So what you are saying is that the 20-30 single-layer discs I have backed up, using DVD Decrypter in ISO mode for reading and for writing, under WinME, don't exist, and that when looking at files in Explorer under WinME, the files I have that are 4Gb aren't really there?

I agree, it's strange, and undocumented in DVD Decrypter. And unfortunately, I can't readily duplicate it, becuase I've upgraded that machine to XP, and I'm not going to reinstall ME on it just to prove this point. Then again...

what would you accept as proof? what can I show you that would convince you I'm not "mistaken"?

I mean, I can give you screen shots of DVD Decrypter in process, and screen shots of the files on the hard drive, but I'm not going to go that far if I'm going to hear shouts of "doctored! impossible! fraud!" after the fact...

[MOVIEGEEK]

@housepig,
How were you able to put two ISO images on one disk?

BTW..Win98 limit is 2GB,98SE & ME are 4GB.

[housepig]

I find that hard to believe, since the maximum filesize in Win98 is 2GB, not 4GB.
...
Because if you tried to make a file bigger than 2GB on a FAT32 system, you'd get a file error.

FAT16 has a 2Gb limit, FAT32 is a 4Gb limit. I don't remember what Win98 formats natively, but WinME is a FAT32 OS.

I think you need to check the specs....

[housepig]

@housepig,
How were you able to put two ISO images on one disk?

I wasn't - what I was getting was three files - an .ISO (4Gb), a .MDS (5K or so) and a third file (150-300Mb, depending on the original dvd size). I think the file extension on the third was .DVD, but it's been a while since I've done this.

under NTFS, using DVD Decrypter, I get the .ISO and the .MDS, but not the third file, because NTFS supports >4Gb... there is no "overflow" that can't fit in the ISO file.

[FOO]

I have a compromise explanation.

The machine register size starting at the 386 is 32 bits.
You can count 2 to the 32 power things with that. 4,294,967,296 decimal
Note those are UNSIGNED numbers. so you can't represent negative values.

Within a particular program you may wish to access a particular byte in a file.
Obviously , no file can be bigger that 4G if you want random access.

Now why the 2G limit ?

There are development languages (like Microsoft Visual Basic) that
do not have UNSIGNED integers. The positive range is 2 G

So you can't write a program that deals with 4 G files with VB
because you cant generate a file address bigger than 2G

[overloaded_ide]

Ok, my 2 cents

Gurm,

I find that hard to believe, since the maximum filesize in Win98 is 2GB, not 4GB.

Win98se is fat 32 (or choice of fat 32 or fat 16 I think) so as fat 32 you have a 4gig limit right. Ok no problem with 4 gig files then! But if you run Win98se as a fat 16 (I think you can?) then you would have the 2gig limit still.

Now if the file is over 4 gigs, then it is either split into 2 files, or you have a problem

Since ME is newer than 98se, it would stand that it is fat32 so the 4 gig limit.

W2k can be either fat 32 or NTFS, so you either do or do not have a 4gig limit. Your choice

I think all the above is correct, been awhile.
It could also be that you only had the fat16/Fat32 choice with 98 if upgrading an older system also. I know I did run 98 both ways in the past.
I had compressed fat 16 drives when I first started using 98, so I stayed fat 16 for awhile.

I was running dual boot with W2K and 98SE, so my boot drive had to be fat32 and thus I had the 4gig limit on it, but not on the slave drive I capture to. SO W2k was on a fat32 drive capturing over 4 gig files on a NTFS drive just fine! Well Untill I went to ATIs MMC 7.7 which had a problem with my setup, so I had to convert the boot drive to NTFS also.

So back to the first post.
My sugestion is don't rip to ISO!
Use DVDshrink to ripp the DVD to hard Drive as a backup. You can compress it slightly to be under 4gigs if a DVD5, and a DVD9 you have to compress anyway if it is actually over 4.7 gigs.
Or you have to split to 2 disks.

Really you don't have to compress a DVD5, but I like to stay back from the edge of a DVD R some since that's where alot of people get errors.
The files size is not a problem for ripping anyway, since you will be getting many 1 gig files (.vob), not just one 4-5gig file.

Then just drop the files into the burner of your choice, like nero in video DVD mode, Or Record now max, or whatever app you choose

[FOO]

OK, why did Fat16 have a 2G limit ?

[thayne]

OK, why did Fat16 have a 2G limit ?

Because when FAT 16 was invented a 100MB hard drive was concidered HUGE.

[FOO]

So it was a random number someone came up with ?

How about 2^16 * 2^15

2^15 was the max cluster size. 32768 Why ?

[Gurm]

Again with the signed and unsigned integers.

My bad, I hadn't seen you saying that you used ME, I thought we were discussing Win98.

And it DOES depend on the program. Even under Win2k or WinXP, there are programs that won't exceed 2GB due to the whole signed/unsigned thing.

- Gurm

[jdizzy40]

I've got one thing to say "FoodFight"! :P

[housepig]

My bad, I hadn't seen you saying that you used ME, I thought we were discussing Win98.

no prob, I figured as much.

and as far as the documentation in Decrypter goes, you're right - it is not documented anywhere that it splits the files under a FAT32 system.. but on my system it did, and the backups are perfect.

[Gurm]

A lot of DVD programs started implementing this on the sly.

It's hard to explain to people that had JUST BOUGHT ME that their $100 investment was a piece of shit.

- Gurm

[vega1970]

So. To conclude: it seems that the 4Gb limit is not a problem as long as
you use DVD decrypter to create and burn .iso DVD files.

Anyway, to be on the safe side and avoid potential problems, I decided to
install Win 2000 SP4 in dual boot with Win ME on a new 40Gb NTFS
partition on my third HD.

I did it yesterday and it worked like a charm.

Thanks for the feedbacks everyone.

[Gurm]

Just out of curiosity, but why on God's Green Earth(tm) would you possibly want to run ME?

It's the spawn of Satan and a crack whore.

- Gurm

[overloaded_ide]

Just out of curiosity, but why on God's Green Earth(tm) would you possibly want to run ME?

Because it's the only thing that his MICROSOFT BOB will run in

I'm sorry, but I just could not resist than one
It was such a setup, just waiting to happen

Please don't flame me for it.

[Phil Thomas]

I thought ME stood for multiple errors

[Gurm]

ME = Moron Edition

[Phil Thomas]

or ... Multiple Exceptions

[MOVIEGEEK]

EDIT