Downloaded movies = warez?

[mats.hogberg]

99% of every noob question starts with "I've got a coupla downloaded movies that I'd like to play on my standalone DVD player" or something to that effect.
With the speed if light, a bunch of people start discussing if this is warez or not, is the forum at risk... - in effect hijacking the topic.
Does "Innocent until proven guilty" ring any bells?
Again, there's only one (Mr B himself) who can decide what's allowed or not, but I've not seen anywhere in the forum rules that mentioning that you've downloaded a movie (be it using IRC, DC, KaZaA...)is prohibited.
I'm not so stupid that I'm unaware of the fact that the probability for a downloaded movie to be illigal is pretty high, but that's not the point.
My Q is: Is it fair to state "I've downloaded a movie" or not?

/Mats

[Craig Tucker]

Is it fair to state "I've downloaded a movie" or not?

/Mats

Yes it is. We assume that there is no copyright violation unless it is stated to the contrary in the post.

[marvel2020]

I think it's fair to mention " I've Downloaded A Movie", but when you name the movie in question especially when it's not released on DVD yet then thats where it becomes the warez Taboo.

But we are all breaking the rulez anyway when we backup are own DVD's, If you take time to read the copywrite material, it's says something like.....



This movie and it's content's are the property of etc,etc, no unauthorised public viewing, copying, rental, lending, etc, etc,

Anyone caught doing so it liable to prosecution etc..


So as you can see we all break the rulez.

[lordsmurf]

Things change.

==

These are the times in which we live...

Just a few years ago, you could say that you downloaded a movie, and people thought nothing of it. In fact, it would probably amaze somebody that you could get anything other than pictures or text. Even at the height of Napster, nobody cared about movies. Most of them were legal.

==

Let me give you an example of something else that has changed...

I remember being a kid in the 80s, and it was quite common to hear "I'm gonna kill you" in the school yard or amongst friends. In those days "kill you" meant to either 1) beat the snot out of you or 2) kick your butt at some sport. These days, saying "kill you" will land you in jail (at any age) with an FBI interrogator. How's that for change?

==

In fact, right this moment, I'm watching a Charlie Chan movie on FMC. It was accepted for years as good entertainment. Recently, some Asian group tried to have it stricken from the air waves. Suddenly, it was a "bad thing". Thankfully, they lost their argument.

==

It's hard to do anything these days without pissing somebody off or making them jump to wild conclusions. Thankfully, the mods at this site have common sense.

[Rookie64]

I haven't been around here all that long yet, so I don't know if this is anything I should have any say in, but downloading movies IMO doesn't imply doing something illegal or violating copyright laws.

People in general assume a movie means full length feature film released by a hollywood studio or distributor, but movie can be any length and can be a home made non-commercial file, old feature films that may very well be in the public domain (no one owns the rights anymore, and there are hundreds of those which you can research), films from other countries that aren't protected by U.S. laws or by laws of other countries (keep in mind that this site can be accessed from around the world)
and there are forms of "fair use" of a given length of a clip and how it can be used on the Internet (that does not require any permission from the copyright owner)

And how about the people who share their own creations they link you to on this site - those are movie files, and even though some may be under copyright protection, you were given access to them from their owners, right?
Or at least we are to assume the ones that made them are the ones posting the links to 'em

There's also a difference between talking about downloading something (that perhaps you don't have the right to do) and providing a link or giving a source to where you downloaded the file.
Someone can *say* they downloaded this or that movie, but how can anyone prove they actually did download that movie?

I wonder more about when people reference IRC, KaZaA, etc if that is permitted, 'cause those could be considered sources for Warez even though those aren't the only things that can be obtained from those sources.

Sort of like using Napster as a reference...yet not everything on Napster was ripped from a commercially released CD.
Some artists used Napster to promote themselves and allowed their music to be downloaded.

Then again, saying the name of a P2P program isn't exactly linking anyone to it directly nor is the program itself illegal.


Just some thoughts to take into consideration

[tandynor]

Well I have stopped downloading Music/movies off of the net. a long time ago. Why? because the quality is pretty bad. I am very picky about My video/audio. Kazaa is more fustrating than ever. you have worms, viruses, incomplete files, 4 minutes of a 30 second loop of a song, Blank video files. etc.. You waste like 3 to 8 hours to download a Movie when you could have went out to the thearter and watched it and saved the heartbreak when you open the file and its blank. Most people pay 40-60 bucks for their internet service. for cable and dsl anyway. and thats the whole reason for getting BROADBAND! I dont condone piracy but I know I diddnt get DSL for playing multiplayer MINESWEEPER! 50 bucks times 12 months equals $600 bucks a year. I dont even spend that much going out to the movies/rentals/music cd's! well anyways I was trying to make a point in here somewhere, but now Im just babbaling!

also on a side note this is not WWW.downloadedmoviesHELP.COM, its DVDhelp.com(formaly VCDhelp). I think mentioning that you downloaded a movie is not wrong, but it would certainly draw attention to the site if somebody was monitoring this site. When sites/things get popular like KAZAA/grandtheft auto for example, they get singled out and attacked first. Im pretty sure if the movie companies wanted to start cracking down on backing up DVD's, this site would be high in thier hit list.

[lordsmurf]

and thats the whole reason for getting BROADBAND! I dont condone piracy but I know I diddnt get DSL for playing multiplayer MINESWEEPER!

This is a terrible assumption too.

I have 1.5 cable connection, and I rarely download music/video/etc. I like the speed when uploading and even mere viewing of Web pages. On dialup, you type in www.whatever.com and it takes at least 10 or more seconds to load. With my connection, I type in www.whatever.com and BAM! The page is there instantly.

I do lots of work online and need the fast connection. The 10 seconds per page adds up quickly. Cable gives me at least 10x the productivity.

[tompika]

What about this one:

Mr X. buys a Sony500 bundled with several softwares for a higher price.
Later he finds out that the Sony firmware is crap at burning cheap medias at 4x so he flashes the drive with a Liteon firmware.
Oops but the bundled burning program won't work with the renamed drive anymore.
He decides to get a serial nr. to make it work.

He doesn't steal IP because he actually paid for the software.
Or does he...?

(shame on the manufacturer that won't provide a decent FW for the drive).

[mats.hogberg]

As always, my intent is just to throw the torch and sit back and look at the flames, but as always, I can't resist!
We're getting a little off topic here: It's about what is allowed to write here at this forum without having a bunch of righteous poeople jumping all over you, calling you a pirate and even nastier stuff. In specific, I'm afraid we're scaring a lot of newbies away if we, as soon as they type "downloaded", start performing some kind of exorcism, that I've noticed lately, mostly performed by rather experienced Forum users. The mods stays out of such business.
So, I've got the answer I wanted. It's not agains forum rules to state that you've downloaded a movie. I can't imagine that the protocol/application used (KaZaA, DC, mldonkey, IRC...) for doing so would act as a modifier to this rule.

/Mats

[Gazorgan]

Bah.

Pretending it's true doesn't make it true. With the exception of Star Wars Kid and certain Hookah/Dead rock concerts, it is all pirated.

No one is going to go though all the effort to download a public domain release and put it on their DVD player. Maintaining your own personal reality doesn't change the facts.

In my dozens of PM's and emails, I have yet to come across someone converting a public domain movie. Timeshifting TV eps is still piracy if someone else does it (unless they don't remove the commercials, but even then if you d/l it out of regieon your still in trouble via the advertiser/fraud clause in fair use).

Methods have gone from IRC to FTP to P2P to Bittorent etc. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.....

[dcsos]

There are a number of STAR TREK episodes (original series)
whose copyright lapsed due to a mistake..but they are indeed PUBLIC DOMAIN and if you find these episodes, download them!

"There is an interesting hole with respect to copyright on Star Trek.
The first few episodes, supposedly, did not have a copyright mark.
This was before the update of the US Copyright law, and so anything
which was published without a copyright statement at that time is
public domain. This means that emblems and images from those first
few episodes are fair game for use in a publication. Images from
later episodes, are copyright."

[mats.hogberg]

So, Gazorgan, what you're saying is that asking for help with "a downloaded AVI" equals asking for help with a "named unreleased commercial movie in AVI format"?
How about "backing up" a DVD then? Chances aren't that slim, that it's in fact a rented DVD!
DV? Well, who knows if you've just come home from a movie theatre with your camcorder?
It's just that I don't want noobs to feel harassed on grounds that's not expressed in the Forum rules.

/Mats

[FOO]

The only thing that matters is whether or not it hurts DVDhelp.com
IMHO. I'm not a policeman.

[Gazorgan]

Backing up your DVD or d/l a pirated movie, same reprocussions. My point is pretending it doesn't happen isn't a defense. If the MPA can sue 2600.org to remove the source for DeCSS (which no one actually uses, just a sidenote, and actually fits on a t-shirt, hows that for security?), then whose the next big target in their sights?

[lordsmurf]

Conspiracy theory anybody?

[Craig Tucker]

Yes but the point is, if it is not stated in the post that it is a pirated movie, you cannot just assume guilt. If someone states they have downloaded pirated material then action would be taken, the same as if someone stated they were copying rented DVD's. We all know these practices go on, but assuming guilt of every poster who wants to back up a DVD or needs help with a video file they have downloaded is not the answer.

[Laddydaddy]

If the MPAA wants to get tough and sue this web site they can certainly do it without someone posting a thread about downloaded movies. The tools section provides links to programs like smart ripper and dvd decrypter. The business of this software is to circumvent the copyrite protection of DVD discs. DVD Shrink itself does the same thing. If we cleanse the board of all possible software and references that may upset the MPAA, it would probably become useless to most of us.

[housepig]

Pretending it's true doesn't make it true. With the exception of Star Wars Kid and certain Hookah/Dead rock concerts, it is all pirated.

No one is going to go though all the effort to download a public domain release and put it on their DVD player. Maintaining your own personal reality doesn't change the facts.

Gazorgan -

I have to respectfully disagree with you. check out the Internet Moving Images Archive at www.archive.org

I've downloaded and converted a ton of stuff from this site, since it has a ton of public domain material that I find quirky, amusing and fascinating. All legal. And all, to me, worth "going..through all the effort". (look for a movie called "One Got Fat" and tell me that's not worth watching!)

yes, I'm sure most of what is asked about is pirate footage. but there is public domain stuff out there, even on p2p - type in "jackass" and see how many dorks have uploaded home video of them setting their nuts on fire. not my cup of tea, but not piracy either.

if the poster doesn't incriminate himself ("how do I convert Matrix: Reloaded to svcd?") then we should give them the benefit of the doubt, just like we give it to the guys who ask questions about Maestro that are answered on the 5th page of the manual they "misplaced".

but if they do incriminate themselves, we should come down on them with both feet.

[andydd]

I must admit that there do seem to be more and more warnings posted by moderators, and Ive seen a few posts by confused people wondering why they got a warning.

Lets face facts. Nearly everyone on here has commited something 'illegal' by copying a DVD, is downloading a film or asking others how to any more wrong than copying that brand new shiny DVD you just got from blockbuster. I know that warnings are given out in an attempt to keep this forum 'legit' but to be honest the guy who asks for a Nero serial number isnt doing anything more wrong than the guy who asks for a link to DVD DEcrypter (which is gonna be usesd for an illegal use..i.e Copying a DVD).

[courtrrb]

Don't forget when some people say I dl a file/music/movie what they really mean is that they copyed/ripped it from the disk they already own. So when sombody says I dl a movies we should first ask "what type of dl disk or internet".

[Gazorgan]

I knew it would take less than an hour for the "I use public domain movies" person to show up :P

I'm a firm believer of the theory "I own the disk and I have a backup, doesn't matter who did the backup". This explains my CD/LP collection.

This site is so unlike most other sites, in that it's actually legit. Great stuff on here about DV and Premiere etc. Maybe a very detailed disclaimer section that the noobs have to actually read before they can post? Not sure, but when a noob says the d/l a movie and want it to play on a DVD plaer, they aint talking public domain movies.

[pacmania_2001]

As Craig said, we give them the benefit of the doubt if the thread is ambigious.

I think mats.hogberg has raised an interesting point and one that has been discussed by the moderators, that of user's 'self-moderating' the board. It happens almost daily that a user will post an ambigious (and most of the time, innocent and legal) message. Before you know it their will be three or four users jumping (and sometimes abusing) at the poster.

Whilst I, and I'm sure the other moderators appreciate users actively adhering to the forum rules it's best to simply report the offending topic and just leave the post till a decision has been made by Baldrick or one of the moderators. Otherwise, like above posters have mentioned you risk scaring away new (and potentially good) members from the board.

[Rookie64]

This site is so unlike most other sites, in that it's actually legit. Great stuff on here about DV and Premiere etc. Maybe a very detailed disclaimer section that the noobs have to actually read before they can post? Not sure, but when a noob says the d/l a movie and want it to play on a DVD plaer, they aint talking public domain movies.

I completely agree that the site is the best of its kind, and hate to see it abused in any way by anyone.

Anyway, I realize there is a very large amount of piracy involved in downloading and converting DVDs...but applying that to myself, I know that there are many things that are downloaded or converted that are perfectly legal.
I happen to be one of the rare breed that would convert something in the public domain - it's the sort of thing that I'm into.
I'd actually take something rare or obscure over the current blockbuster, that'll play a hundred times on cable in the next few months
So I'm aware all people don't share the same tastes.

However, I don't download full length movies of any kind -
1. I don't have a broadband connection
2. What I'm seeking isn't out there to download anyway
3. What IS out there that may be of some intrest is stuff I already own or can obtain and would rather convert from the original source for quality...and I would apply a lot of my own editing and filters first.

I happen to download a lot of tutorials that are in video formats (MPEG or WMV) that I've at least converted to VCDs.

As well, I'm also interested in projects others create and share, that I use for educational value or for inspiration.
Yea, I know a lot of people are into movies for their own entertainment, but it's only fair to point out that everyone isn't in this for the same reasons.

And for what it's worth, I wasn't flaming the original post or anyone here.
I think we all bring something unique and/or of value to this forum.
The last thing I'd ever want is for someone to get the site shut down, especially for being carless or out of disrespect.

I agree with most of what's been said in this thread.