Widescreen TV owners HELP!!! Backups not 16:9 DVD Maestro?

[F-ING HOSTILE]

The good news: I finally sold enough of my possessions to be able to afford a HDTV Widescreen TV.

The bad news: None of the DVD's I have made using CCE and TMPGEnc work properly!


First let me explain the process I used to create these DVD's. I usually rip the main movie files with DVD Decrypter, and demux using DVD 2 AVI. I frameserve to CCE (or TMPGEnc) using an Avisynth script. Now since DVD2AVI usually likes to stretch widescreen movies (making a 2.35:1 look like 1.85:1, and a 1.85:1 to full screen) my Avisynth script is as follows:
loadplugin("c:\Program Files\AviSynth2\plugins\MPEG2DEC.dll")
mpeg2source("c:\1. THE TERMINATOR\VIDEO_TS\Demuxed.d2v")
bicubicresize(720,360,0,0)
addborders(0,60,0,60)
AddAudio()
I then re-encode using CCE (with a widescreen template), and compile the entire project with DVD Maestro.

The problem with the movies I have made this way is that they do not seem to have a 16:9 aspect ratio. A normal 1.85 widescreen movie on my new TV fills the whole screen, but the movies I have made are still being interpreted as 4:3 (and look just like they did on my standard TV, only stretched sideways). I thought I had the problem licked when I noticed the "4:3 16:9 Letterbox" option at the bottom of the "movie 1" screen where I put my project together. The default setting is "4:3", and all my movies have been made with this. I went back and remade one, making sure to set the setting to 16:9, but it did not fix the problem. When the movies play they still seem to have a 4:3 aspect ratio. I can zoom in to make the movie fill the entire screen, but it looks like shit.

The only other place I can see screwing this up is with the Avisynth script. Perhaps it is making the video fullscreen somehow. Maybe it only appears to keep the widescreen ratio on my old TV because it considers the black bars at top and bottom part of a 4:3 image, rather than a 16:9 (what I mean to say is that I'm manually adding the bars with Avisynth, rather than letting my DVD player do it). It's kind of become a confusing mess to me

I guess what I'm looking for are folks with widescreen TV sets, who use CCE or TMPGEnc, and DVD Maestro, and have gotten their DVD's to retain the correct aspect ratio! The movies I created with DVD 2 ONE, DVD Shrink, and DVD Decrypter (ISO Mode) work perfectly, but I really like the quality I get when I use CCE!

Any help would be greatly appreciated! THANKS!!!

[vhelp]

Hi f-ing, and others..

I see that things are starting to change w/ 16:9 encodes. Only time will
tell, when everyone and all talks will be geared for 16:9 encodes, as I've
ben paraiding about for the last year. Anyways.. as I usually say to some
people when they sound like they have everything they want.. "you'll see.."
Anyways..

If you want to encode your sources (assuming they are true 16:9 sources)
you'll have to set them up properly under TMPG.

I don't have any AVS scripts laying around at the moment, but I'm sure
that others can contribute here.

Video Tab, set to 16:9, and under the Advance Tab, set to 16:9
This will set your apsect ratio for 16:9 viewing. From their, it's a matter of
cutting off the boarders ( you don't need them, and gain extra bitrate or
quality !! ) Next is the proper resizing, and then encoding, burning and watching
on your WS TV set

It looks to be as though you've ben encoding all your WS sources to 4:3.
This has has always ben the wrong way of encoding such WS movie sources,
but people got the idea that it looks good/proper on the TVs, and thats all
that matter, but in reality, they've all ben doing it all wrong.. if you're gearing
for the future (ie, ws tv set) you need to do things as close to proper as
possible. Heck, I'm still learning this AR thing. So, don't going bullying me
around if you're not satisfied

But, do try the encoding above on a few test encodes and burn those to CDR
and see how they look on your WS tv set. Mind you, they don't have to be
a perfect 1.85 or 2.35 wd view. Just so long as they are close, that's all that
really matters, w/ respect to viewing AR properly

Also, you might want to have a look at DJRumpy's guide to all these
talk about Aspect Ratios
..for a great explanation and plenty of calculations to play around with.

Good luck,
-vhelp

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Video Tab, set to 16:9, and under the Advance Tab, set to 16:9
This will set your apsect ratio for 16:9 viewing. From their, it's a matter of
cutting off the boarders ( you don't need them, and gain extra bitrate or
quality !! ) Next is the proper resizing, and then encoding, burning and watching
on your WS TV set

Thanks for the reply!

When I used TMPGEnc, those are the settings I would use. The problem is that in order to have it be the correct aspect ratio, I have to use Avisynth. About 99% of the movies I demux with DVD2AVI get stretched. A 2.35:1 (small) widescreen movie almost always ends up stretched to the 1.85:1 aspect ratio! It gives the video the tall, "long faced" look. If I don't transfer the video via an Avisynth script, the finished movie is stretched in this way (or if it was a 1.85:1 widescreen movie it is now stretched into a full screen movie). I'm really suprised I have not noticed more people posting with this "stretching" problem (I myself submited a post about it when I was first learning to backup DVD's). I guess there are not that many people using DVD2AVI anymore!

[FulciLives]

When I used TMPGEnc, those are the settings I would use. The problem is that in order to have it be the correct aspect ratio, I have to use Avisynth. About 99% of the movies I demux with DVD2AVI get stretched. A 2.35:1 (small) widescreen movie almost always ends up stretched to the 1.85:1 aspect ratio! It gives the video the tall, "long faced" look. If I don't transfer the video via an Avisynth script, the finished movie is stretched in this way (or if it was a 1.85:1 widescreen movie it is now stretched into a full screen movie). I'm really suprised I have not noticed more people posting with this "stretching" problem (I myself submited a post about it when I was first learning to backup DVD's). I guess there are not that many people using DVD2AVI anymore!

Man not to be rude but you fucked up bigtime. You converted all of your 16x9 DVD sources to 4:3 widescreen.

Guess what? When you watch a 16x9 DVD on a 4:3 monitor and you are viewing it in it's native form (without it being resized) then it does appear stretched in exactly the mannor you are talking about. That image actually looks proper on a 16x9 TV and it actually also looks fine on a 4:3 TV because the DVD player will resize the 16x9 DVD for a 4:3 TV

However ... when you re-encoded everything using the script you mentioned you changed the original 16x9 image to a widescreen 4:3 image.

There is nothing wrong with DVD2AVI and there is technically nothing wrong with what you did except now you realize that a widescreen 4:3 DVD does not look so good on a 16x9 widescreen TV ... in other words you should have left everything 16x9 to begin with since it all would have been fine on ANY television ... it would have looked normal on a 16x9 TV and it would have been resized by the DVD player for a 4:3 television.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Man not to be rude but you fucked up bigtime. You converted all of your 16x9 DVD sources to 4:3 widescreen.

Tell me about it ! It would not have been a problem if I didn't buy a widescreen TV.

Guess what? When you watch a 16x9 DVD on a 4:3 monitor and you are viewing it in it's native form (without it being resized) then it does appear stretched in exactly the mannor you are talking about. That image actually looks proper on a 16x9 TV and it actually also looks fine on a 4:3 TV because the DVD player will resize the 16x9 DVD for a 4:3 TV

I don't think you understand this part. Are you saying that if I just forget the Avisynth script, and let the video go from DVD2AVI stretched, on through the encoding process, it will fit right in the end? I tryed this (actually I forgot to resize it), and the finished 235 dvd was stretched to 185. On the widescreen TV it looked the same (like a 185 movie), but was just stretched sideways.

There is nothing wrong with DVD2AVI and there is technically nothing wrong with what you did except now you realize that a widescreen 4:3 DVD does not look so good on a 16x9 widescreen TV ... in other words you should have left everything 16x9 to begin with since it all would have been fine on ANY television ... it would have looked normal on a 16x9 TV and it would have been resized by the DVD player for a 4:3 television.

I went back and recompiled a project I had already done, making sure to select 16:9. It didn't change a thing. It has to be something with the avs script, but when I don't use the script it is stretched, and doesn't fit anyway!

I need to find one of the few movies that DVD2AVI does not stretch, encode it without using an Avisynth script, make sure to select 16:9 on DVD Maestro, and see if that works. What sucks is that even if it does, almost all the movies I demux with DVD2AVI get stretched, and require something to make them hold their aspect ratio!!

[FulciLives]

What I am saying is if you run a 16x9 DVD through DVD2AVI and then re-encode the D2V project file with your choice of MPEG-2 encoder (you could use TMPGEnc or CCE or Mainconcepts etc.) and then author that with an authoring program that allows you to set the format to 16x9 (some only allow 4:3 output but most allow you to select 4:3 or 16:9) then ... yeah ... it will look normal when you view it on ANY type of TV be it a 16x9 TV or a 4:3 TV

Of course you have to make sure the DVD player is set up accordingly. There is an option in the menu (all stand alone DVD players have this) that allow you to select the type of output ... either 16x9 or 4:3 widescreen etc.

So for instance if you play back a 16x9 DVD on a 4:3 TV then you need to select (in the DVD menu settings) that the TV is 4:3 and it (the "stretched" 16x9 DVD) will be displayed properly. However if you have the DVD player set to 16x9 output but you have a 4:3 TV then a 16x9 DVD will play back in that "stretched" looking way.

So when you encode 16x9 you have to remember to set the authoring software to 16x9 instead of 4:3 and you have to make sure the DVD player is set up to match the TV type (either 16x9 or 4:3) that it is hooked up too.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

I don't think you understand this part. Are you saying that if I just forget the Avisynth script, and let the video go from DVD2AVI stretched, on through the encoding process, it will fit right in the end? I tryed this (actually I forgot to resize it), and the finished 235 dvd was stretched to 185. On the widescreen TV it looked the same (like a 185 movie), but was just stretched sideways.

I just answered the first part of this but to make things MORE clear ...

An anamorphic 16x9 DVD of a movie that is 2.35:1 will appear on a 4:3 TV as 2.35:1 meaning that there will be alot of black on the top and bottom but when you view it on a 16x9 TV then it will still have the same aspect ratio but since the TV is widescreen there will be less black on the top and bottom ... about the same as when you watch a 1.85:1 widescreen source on a 4:3 TV.

Remember that a 16x9 TV has an aspect ratio of about 1.78:1 so a movie with an aspect ratio of 2.35:1 will still have black above and below the image to retain the 2.35:1 aspect ratio but it won't be as much black as when you view that 2.35:1 widescreen movie on a 4:3 TV because a 4:3 TV has an aspect ratio of 1.33:1

Hopefully that makes sense

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[F-ING HOSTILE]

What I am saying is if you run a 16x9 DVD through DVD2AVI and then re-encode the D2V project file with your choice of MPEG-2 encoder (you could use TMPGEnc or CCE or Mainconcepts etc.) and then author that with an authoring program that allows you to set the format to 16x9 (some only allow 4:3 output but most allow you to select 4:3 or 16:9) then ... yeah ... it will look normal when you view it on ANY type of TV be it a 16x9 TV or a 4:3 TV

Of course you have to make sure the DVD player is set up accordingly. There is an option in the menu (all stand alone DVD players have this) that allow you to select the type of output ... either 16x9 or 4:3 widescreen etc.

So for instance if you play back a 16x9 DVD on a 4:3 TV then you need to select (in the DVD menu settings) that the TV is 4:3 and it (the "stretched" 16x9 DVD) will be displayed properly. However if you have the DVD player set to 16x9 output but you have a 4:3 TV then a 16x9 DVD will play back in that "stretched" looking way.

So when you encode 16x9 you have to remember to set the authoring software to 16x9 instead of 4:3 and you have to make sure the DVD player is set up to match the TV type (either 16x9 or 4:3) that it is hooked up too.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Thanks for the info FulciLives.

I know exactly what you're saying. I said at the start of the post that I screwed up by leaving the 4:3 default in Maestro! I also said that I tryed to do it right, by selecting 16:9 in Maestro, but it did not change anything!

I'm really thinking it almost has to be an Avisynth problem!

[FulciLives]

I know exactly what you're saying. I said at the start of the post that I screwed up by leaving the 4:3 default in Maestro! I also said that I tryed to do it right, by selecting 16:9 in Maestro, but it did not change anything!

I'm really thinking it almost has to be an Avisynth problem!

Well just use an AviSynth script that doesn't resize the image. If you used the AviSynth script you quoted way above and then set your authoring program to 16x9 well ... that ain't gonna fix the fact that you resized your 16x9 source to 4:3 widescreen in the AviSynth script.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Here we go, round and round! If I don't resize the video that gets stretched, the finished m2v, and consequently, the finished DVD are stretched!

Do I just have a bum version of DVD2AVI? No one else seems to know about the stretching problem, or at least care about it. I've had countless dvd's ruined because I forgot to resize the video (retaining the original aspect ratio) after demuxing with DVD2AVI.

Anyway, thanks for all the help. I really do appreciate it. I'm still trying to figure this one out.

[vhelp]

hi f-ing..

Sorry you got troubles w/ your WS

Maybe we can help each other out. I've ben looking for someone w/ an
WS tv to test my 16:9 encodes that I make w/ DV home-made footage
that I managed to turn into 23.976 (w/ 3:2 pulldown) yeah, I know.. can't
be done - - but I busted it wide open hehe.. my secret :P Anyways..

If you want, I'd be happy to U/L some of these for you to test on your
WS tv set ??

Let me know, and I'll see what I can do. At least we can tell for if either
I'm doing my encodes correctly (for WS tv's) or you're missing something
in yours

-vhelp

[bacardi/avt]

It might be as you say with the DVD2AVI being f**k up, since I use a similar way to do my backups. The DVD2AVI I use is version 1.76 and in CCE I only check the aspectratio flag to the right format (4:3 or 16:9) then when I put it together in DVDMaestro I use either 4:3 or 16:9 Letterbox as the format. I haven't tested any of my encodes on a 16:9 TV until I read yuor post and then I when to my neigbour to try it out. NO problems what so ever was exactly as I wanted it to be.

This is how I do my backup (if it's any help)

1. Decrypt and demux with DVDdecrypter
2. using an avisynth script like this one (depending on source):
LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")
mpeg2source("I:\Wall street\VTS_02\filmen.d2v")
ResampleAudio(44100)
3. Do an encoding with CCE 2.5 setting the aspectflag to 16:9
4. Putting it togehter in DVDMaestro setting 16:9 letterbox as movie aspect ratio
5. burning with RecordNow DX

All is done and this works on all TV's Just like the original did. No stretch or other strange phenomena.

Hope this helps you....

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Maybe we can help each other out. If you want, I'd be happy to U/L some of these for you to test on your WS tv set ??

Sounds great! Just PM me and we'll work out the details

It might be as you say with the DVD2AVI being f**k up, since I use a similar way to do my backups. The DVD2AVI I use is version 1.76 and in CCE I only check the aspectratio flag to the right format (4:3 or 16:9) then when I put it together in DVDMaestro I use either 4:3 or 16:9 Letterbox as the format. I haven't tested any of my encodes on a 16:9 TV until I read yuor post and then I when to my neigbour to try it out. NO problems what so ever was exactly as I wanted it to be.

Thanks for the reply!!
In your use of DVD2AVI, have you ever noticed the stretching phenomenon? If so, did you do the resize (Avisynth script) to keep the aspect ratio? It seems you use pretty much the exact same programs and methods I do.

[bacardi/avt]

No, I have not seen the streching phenomena on any of the DVDs I've made. But when I used to do SVCDs i had to do some resize to make it look right on the TV screen.

The reason for this (I think) is that the SVCD stream does not have the size flag that DVD streams have (or at least most stand alone players can't use that flag to set the correct aspectratio). But since I went over to making DVDs I have never had any problems if I set the flag correctly in CCE when encoding. By the way I have done about 80-100 DVD backups from different sources (2.40:1 (strange one) , 2.35:1 , 1.85:1 and 1.33:1). I have also made about the same nummber of backups to SVCD with the same different source aspect ratios and finally I have made about 20 backups from Divx sources (these are the worst when it comes to getting the aspect ratio right). I have only failed about five times and ending up with a strange looking video but all these were made to SVCD where I forgott to resize properly.

I was just wondering if you are refering to the preview in DVD2AVI when you are talking about streching, if so forget what you se and just check what it says in the statistics window (4:3 or 16:9) then encode the movie with the correct setting and import it to DVDMaestro and set that one to the same (4:3 or 16:9 Letterbox) then when you try it it should be perfect.

Hope you can make some sense of what I am saying and excuse me for my bad english since it's not my mother tongue.

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Please forgive my previous posts. I was a little screwed up, and now realize the mistake I made with the "4:3" oversight in DVD Maestro, and the resizing with Avisynth mess!



O.K. I did a few tests and figured a few things out...

TEST 1: Saving Private Ryan (1.85:1 Anamorphic Widescreen)
*DVD Decrypter-Ripped main movie files.
*DVD2AVI-Seperated Audio from Video, Preview video looks stretched to Full Screen.
*Frameserved to CCE (with no resize of any kind).
*DVD Maestro-Chose "16:9 Letterbox", video looked full screen in Maestro's preview window, but I compiled anyway.
*Prassi Primo-Wrote files to DVD.

On a standard TV (with the DVD player set to it's normal 4:3 output) the video appeared to be a normal 1.85:1 widescreen movie, with small black bars on top and bottom!! Just like the original.PERFECT!
On a widescreen TV (with the DVD player set to it's normal 16:9 output) the video appeared to be normal, filling the entire screen (without being stretched in any way). Just like the original. PERFECT!

At this point I'm having a drink and thinking everythings going to be all right!

Test 2: Gladiator (2.35:1 Anamorphic Widescreen)
*DVD Decrypter-Ripped main movie files.
*DVD2AVI-Seperated Audio from Video, Preview video stretched to Full a 1.85:1 aspect ratio.
*Frameserved to CCE (with no resize of any kind).
*DVD Maestro-Chose "16:9 Letterbox", video looked like a 1.85:1 movie (stretched) in Maestro's preview window, but I compiled anyway.
*Prassi Primo-Wrote files to DVD.

On a standard TV (with the DVD player set to it's normal 4:3 output) the video appeared to be stretched into a 1.85:1 aspect ratio. SHIT!
On a widescreen TV (with the DVD player set to it's normal 16:9 output) the video appeared to be normal, it had thin black bars at top and bottom, just like the original. PERFECT!

I later went back and changed the DAR selection in DVD Maestro from 16:9 letterbox to 16:9 Pan Scan, with the same results! I guess I could settle for what I've got (the dvd's should play fine on my widescreen TV), but don't understand why the 2.35:1 won't play correctly on a regular TV!
I guess I'll go test two other movies and see if I get the same results.

Someone please help!

[F-ING HOSTILE]

WTF !!!

I tested another 2.35:1 movie (Star Wars II).
I used all the same steps as I did with Gladiator, and got all the same results throughout the process (Aspect ratios, stretching, etc..), but this one worked perfect.
On the regular TV it looked normal, just like the original (large black bars on top and bottom), and on the widescreen TV it also looked like the original looked (thin black bars on top and bottom). I'm satisfied, but still curious as to why Gladiator appeared stretched on the regular TV

How can two movies, both with a 2.35:1 Anamorphic Widescreen aspect ratio, put through the exact same steps, come out different.

Any guesses?

[vhelp]

Hi f-ing..

I think it's all in the "crop" perhaps.

Ok, take a closer look at all those dvd's you just encoded. Have a look at
the boarders. See which one has NO boarders, while others have some,
and yet others, maybe a little more than others.

If they (the black bars) are not w/ in the AR ie, say, 2.35:1 AR in move A,
while in movie B, there's probably much less.. that's probably your issue.
And, since there is not enough bars or too much (pending your process and
wd tv spec) you'll have these/some movies that won't orient properly.

That's my guess as to your issue though. It's a matter of how much bars
is covering the image, and at WHICH AR they are in.. ie, 2:35 vs. 1:85 vs.
1:778

Another things is, the SW apps you use to encodes and author that could
be throwing off some of these too, but IF you are consistant in your steps,
and use the SAME apps and processes/procedure, then it's all down to the
bars and cropping those that have to be, even if just a little.

Give some thought to that.
-vhelp

[vhelp]

.
.
oh, but don't forget that these DVDs.. they are designed w/ the proper AR
to display your movies on any tv set out their today.

But, if you go and strip out everything ie, dvddecrypter and dvdavi and
smartripper etc etc, you nothing to go on except that little you change in
your encode, and basically, are relying upon the SW app to fix during the
encode and/or authoring

The above is FWIW
-vhelp

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Ok, take a closer look at all those dvd's you just encoded. Have a look at the boarders. See which one has NO boarders, while others have some, and yet others, maybe a little more than others.

That's just the thing. The boarders are exactly the same! Both Gladiator, and Star Wars II have a 2.35:1 DAR. Their boarders are identical (as far as I can tell). I don't know why one would be displayed properly, while the other (that went through the exact same process) does not.

Oh...wait
I think I see what you mean. I wasn't comparing Saving Private Ryan and Gladiator as far as their appearance (you know apples and oranges). I just wanted to try the method I was using on two movies with the two major aspect ratios (2.35:1 and 1.85:1). The 1.85:1 movie (Saving Private Ryan) worked perfect, but the 2.35:1 movie (Gladiator) didn't display properly on the standard TV. That's when I decided to try another 2.35:1 movie (Star Wars II). In my last post I was comparing Star Wars II and Gladiator since they were both 2.35:1 Anamorphic Widescreen DVD's, and one worked when the other didn't.

Thanks for the help!!

[bacardi/avt]

Since I to have done backups of both Gladiator and Star Wars II I went and tested them on my 4:3 TV and on my neighbours 16:9. As a comaprison I used the original Galdiator disc (since I do not have the Star Wars disc at home at the moment). The result of the test was that both movies are the way they should on both TVs (when I set the player to the format of the TV that I used for the moment). So my conclusion is that U might have done something different or forgott to change the settings on the player in one of the test or maybe there is some differenses between NTSC and PAL (if U use NTSC, since I use PAL).

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Since I to have done backups of both Gladiator and Star Wars II I went and tested them on my 4:3 TV and on my neighbours 16:9. As a comaprison I used the original Galdiator disc (since I do not have the Star Wars disc at home at the moment). The result of the test was that both movies are the way they should on both TVs (when I set the player to the format of the TV that I used for the moment). So my conclusion is that U might have done something different or forgott to change the settings on the player in one of the test or maybe there is some differenses between NTSC and PAL (if U use NTSC, since I use PAL).

Weird
I think I'll go back and test Gladiator again. Mabye I slipped up somewhere along the way, and overlooked a detail. It is NTSC, by the way.

Good new though... With the exception of Gladiator, every other movie has worked perfect
I also tested The Recruit (1.78:1 Anamorphic Widescreen), and it worked great!!

Thanks for all the help everyone. I'll continue to test different DVD's and see what happens!