Audio Copyright who to contact

[SteveAW]

I have done some small music videos for my family and a couple of friends.
I just did one for my sisters best friend and her fiancie.
I do more than just put pictures to music ( I use a lot of special effects, etc)
They played my video at a bacheloette party. I have had a couple of people call me and want me to do a video for them

My sisters friends fiance is a sales man and has a lot of contacts,he said he would have no problem selling these DVD's I do

My question is How do I get permission to use the songs I use (by groups such as Carpenters, George Starit, Eagles etc), is there a way to find out what songs are public domain????

Thank you
Steve

[secretagent]

Harry Fox Agency, Inc. (HFA)
National Music Publishers' Assoc., Inc.
711 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10017
212-370-5330 (Tel.)
www.nmpa.org

HFA licenses musical compositions for use on records, tapes, CDS and computer chips. It also licenses musical compositions for use in audio/visual works including motion pictures, television programs, commercials and multi-media. HFA maintains a searchable database of 2 million songs called www.songfile.com

[mp3superfreak]

SteveAW,

All I can say is good luck finding out how to get a "synchronization license" for using popular music. Around a year ago, I spend weeks trying to get in touch w/ the right people to allow me to do the same you are talking about.

There was supposed to be an intermediary company that dealt with the licenses for most major artists (record labels), but they responded telling me they no longer handled these types of licenses. Unfortunately, I can't remember who I contacted.

A quick google search for "synchronization license" has quite a few hits for BMI. You might start trying to contact them.

Maybe someone hear has better info about who to contact, but in my experience, it is very frustrating for us videographers. I have since bought "royalty-free" music, which I can use in any of my projects without worrying about copyrights.

I've heard it's VERY expensive to obtain rights to use popular artists, such as the ones you mentioned. My understanding is, when obtaining the license, you must explain how and detailed information about your usage of the music. IMHO, this is too time consuming for the up and coming videomaker/videographer. I respect copyrights, but there has got to be an easier way for us to work together.

Hopefully there is a poster out there who can give you better information than I have.

[mp3superfreak]

Harry Fox Agency, Inc. (HFA)
National Music Publishers' Assoc., Inc.
711 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10017
212-370-5330 (Tel.)
www.nmpa.org

HFA licenses musical compositions for use on records, tapes, CDS and computer chips. It also licenses musical compositions for use in audio/visual works including motion pictures, television programs, commercials and multi-media. HFA maintains a searchable database of 2 million songs called www.songfile.com

Harry Fox, that's who I contacted! They told me they no longer dealt with "sync licenses".

secretagent knows his stuff, so don't listen to me.

Hopefully you will have better luck than I did. Please let us know what response you get.

[SteveAW]

Thanks to both of you for answering

I have emailed the "Harry Fox Agency, Inc." agency, but haven't received any thing back from them
I did notice I can get a Mechanical license (for 500 to 2500 units) from them, but that is not what I really need, since all I will making is one copy of each video for private use only.

If the people have the songs on a CD or LP or Cassette and I copy the music from one of these, all I would be doing is making a backup of the song for whoever I am doing the work for (only it will have a video attached)
Does this sound legal?

Steve

[disturbed1]

Effective June 30, 2002, The Harry Fox Agency will no longer offer general synchronization licensing services.
Synchronization of Music with Motion Picture or Video
The recorded use of music in combination with visual images ("synchronization") does not fall within the guidelines set forth in the compulsory license provisions of the U.S. Copyright Act. Licenses for use of music in films and in conjunction with home videos must therefore be negotiated on an individual basis between the copyright owner and the prospective user. In this regard, HFA acts non-exclusively as an intermediary for many of its publisher principals in negotiations with producers, facilitating communication between the two parties which often leads to the implementation of a license agreement. HFA synchronization licenses can be issued for global use, in addition to domestic use.

HFA does not set rates or determine terms of any such licenses it issues on behalf of its music publisher principals.

License Request forms are available as Adobe Acrobat® PDF (Portable Document Format) files, which can be viewed and printed from any computer with the Adobe Acrobat® Reader, which is free from Adobe.

Synchronization License Request Form

If you have not previously established a Synchronization Licensing Account with HFA you must submit a Synchronization Account Application with your license request.

Account Application

Hope that helps.

[housepig]

If the people have the songs on a CD or LP or Cassette and I copy the music from one of these, all I would be doing is making a backup of the song for whoever I am doing the work for (only it will have a video attached)
Does this sound legal?

nope.

there is a legal (yet slightly scummy) method.

find a local cover band. hire them to go into a studio and record cover versions of the songs you want. make sure they sign contracts stating that you own the rights to the performance.

the Eagles can stop you from using "Hotel California", but they can't stop you from using The Joe Blow Band's cover of "Hotel California"... all they can do is require you to pay the royalty - much cheaper than a licensing fee. (Friend of mine's band did a cover of Voivod's "Voivod", and it came out to 14 cents per cd for the royalties, for 10,000+ discs...)

yeah, you'll lay out for the band and the recording, but you'll have a library of songs you can use forever...

[disturbed1]

That's illegal too housepig.

The Eagels own the rights to all lyrics and music for hotel california. In that case both the Joe Blow Band and SteveAW would get sued.


Think of rappers that remake music, they have to obtain the rights to sample said music. Look at Metallica's Garage Day, Metallica had to obtain a license to cover those bands.

[SteveAW]

Thanks for the information
and the sync pdfs

SteveAW

[jeex]

maybe you could just buy the single's for the songs in your dvd and include them with the dvd?

although, that could become really expensive

[jdizzy40]

Please tell what local cover band is going to sound like the Carpenters? Karen and her Brother were one of a kind. If it was just one group you wanted permission from I could help you out. Richard Carpenter and Jack Daugherty still have sole rights to many of their songs and never completely gave control to A&M Records, unlike many groups who got hurting for money later in life. Oh well got off topic. Sorry. Maybe go the scummy route that was suggested. Just don't ask them to play "We've Only Just Begun" or "Close to You". We miss you Karen!!!!

[SteveAW]

jeex
I thought about that, but it would be illeagle and as you said very expensive

jdizzy40
These two songs "We've Only Just Begun" and "Close to You" are the two main songs I used for my parents 50th anniversary last year. Both of my parents said Karen's voice was a gift from Heaven.

Do you know how I can get in touch with Richard Carpenter or Jack Daugherty to get permission and how much it would cost to use one of the Carpenters songs
Steve



swieg12345@hotmail.com

[housepig]

Think of rappers that remake music, they have to obtain the rights to sample said music.

sample rights and royalties for cover songs are two totally different areas. a cover song does not contain any recorded elements from the original performance, which is pretty much the definition of a sample.

Look at Metallica's Garage Day, Metallica had to obtain a license to cover those bands.

okay, I'm looking at the liner notes right now. Each song has the information about who wrote it, and a notice of the publishing company. If you'd like to point out the words "under license from..." on those liner notes, I'd love to see it.

You do not (in the US*) need to obtain permission from someone to cover their song, you only have to pay the royalty. That royalty is dirt cheap.

(* the UK is different, they have a concept in their copyright law that assigns "moral rights" - the original artist can prevent someone from releasing a cover version if they feel it is inappropriate in some way).

Please tell what local cover band is going to sound like the Carpenters?

depends on how good your cover band is - I've heard some that blow chunks, and some that you could barely tell from the original.

[mp3superfreak]

maybe you could just buy the single's for the songs in your dvd and include them with the dvd?

although, that could become really expensive

This is not legal either....although some video outlets use this technique (make video, use song, by CD of song at store and give to customer w/ video).

Until it is made easier for us videographers, I'll just continue to use my "royalty-free" music and explain to my clients why I can't use popular music. It's really a shame, b/c it's not the same as copying (especially if you provide them w/ the CD).

The likelihood of you getting caught is slim to none, but we want to do what's legal, right? I've heard horror stories of people being sued by record companies for doing just this, so I only use popular music for my personal home videos.

[housepig]

Disturbed1 -

A cover song may be created either by getting permission from the mechanical rights owner or through a compulsory mechanical license. Once the copyright owner of a musical composition records and distributes the work to the public, or allows another to do so, anyone that wishes to record and distribute that same work may do so without permission by issuing the copyright owner a notice of intention to obtain a compulsory license. .... the copyright owner cannot disallow the cover artist from reproducing and distributing that work if the cover artist is willing to pay the compulsory license. (italics mine)

http://www.copyright.iupui.edu/permfaq.htm#cov

also has information on the difference between a sample and a cover.

As of right now, mechanical license is 8.0 cents or 1.55 cents per minute of playing time or fraction thereof, whichever is greater.

So, assuming that there's 75 minutes on each Metallica disc, they paid $2.33 for royalties for every copy of Garage, Inc sold. Not bad for a double cd of all covers.

[SteveAW]

• How do I secure permission to synchronize a recorded piece of music with a visual work?

o A “sync” license must be sought when a filmmaker wishes to synchronize a sound recording with a motion picture, film, or any other type of visual work. This license can be obtained from the owner of the performance rights. Until recently, Harry Fox Inc. handled sync licenses, but as of June 2002, this is no longer true.

o A separate license called a master use license may be needed to secure the right to manufacture and distribute copies of the synchronized film or video. The master use license is used when an entity wants to incorporate a sound recording into another work that will be reproduced and distributed. The terms for royalty payments for the sale of a movie’s soundtrack will also be covered in the master use license.

Ok I went here
http://www.copyright.iupui.edu/permfaq.htm#cov

How do I find out who the owner of the performance rights is?

and I do thank everyone for their help

Steve

swieg12345@hotmail.com

[disturbed1]

Disturbed1 -

A cover song may be created either by getting permission from the mechanical rights owner or through a compulsory mechanical license. Once the copyright owner of a musical composition records and distributes the work to the public, or allows another to do so, anyone that wishes to record and distribute that same work may do so without permission by issuing the copyright owner a notice of intention to obtain a compulsory license. .... the copyright owner cannot disallow the cover artist from reproducing and distributing that work if the cover artist is willing to pay the compulsory license. (italics mine)

http://www.copyright.iupui.edu/permfaq.htm#cov

also has information on the difference between a sample and a cover.

As of right now, mechanical license is 8.0 cents or 1.55 cents per minute of playing time or fraction thereof, whichever is greater.

So, assuming that there's 75 minutes on each Metallica disc, they paid $2.33 for royalties for every copy of Garage, Inc sold. Not bad for a double cd of all covers.

Your talking about a mechanical license, completely different from a sync license.

A sync license is need to "sync" the music to a video. A mechanical license is to reproduce the music.

You need both types of licenses. One to sync it to video. And the mechanical one to reproduce it.

[disturbed1]

• How do I secure permission to synchronize a recorded piece of music with a visual work?

o A “sync” license must be sought when a filmmaker wishes to synchronize a sound recording with a motion picture, film, or any other type of visual work. This license can be obtained from the owner of the performance rights. Until recently, Harry Fox Inc. handled sync licenses, but as of June 2002, this is no longer true.

o A separate license called a master use license may be needed to secure the right to manufacture and distribute copies of the synchronized film or video. The master use license is used when an entity wants to incorporate a sound recording into another work that will be reproduced and distributed. The terms for royalty payments for the sale of a movie’s soundtrack will also be covered in the master use license.

Ok I went here
http://www.copyright.iupui.edu/permfaq.htm#cov

How do I find out who the owner of the performance rights is?

and I do thank everyone for their help

Steve

swieg12345@hotmail.com

If you own the original, there's usually a listing called "Legal" or something to that effect. Get in contact with that company.

You can also goto the band's website, they will usually have a link/information there.

Here's a sample sync license http://www.producersguide.cpb.org/Music_Sync_License_+_Mech_(in).html

[housepig]

Disturbed -

go back and read my original post. I don't need to pay the Eagles for the music in the video, because it's not the Eagles, it's the Joe Blow Band doing "Hotel California". So I'd have to secure a sync license from the Joe Blow Band.

A sync license must be sought when a filmmaker wishes to synchronize a sound recording with a motion picture, film, or any other type of visual work. This license can be obtained from the owner of the performance rights.

But wait! I hired them to do it, and they signed the rights over to me. So I own the rights to the Joe Blow Band doing "Hotel Calilfornia". So I don't have to pay myself squat (remember, I as the copyright owner am welcome to negotiate a lower fee if I so choose.)

All I have to pay the Eagles for is $.08 per unit I manufacture.

[SteveAW]

So I am going to have to get a both, a Sync. and Mech. license to do what I need to do, even for a single copy.

Thanks for the information
Steve

[coyote]

Ok.....this actually was what I used to do for a living (music copyright)

The best place to start is one of the Copyright Society's (Such as A.S.C.A.P. - that's the one I worked at - 80 percent of the worlds copyrighted material goes through it, others are BMI,CAPAC,SESAC, GEMA) ASCAP is really the best place to start.

www.ascap.com

What they do is when a song is played on a tv show, on the radio, in a jukebox, or on film, they collect the money from the production company's and then pass it on to the author, composer and publisher of the song.

Depending on how you used the music it will change in price. A vocal piece is more expensive then an instrumental. If it is in the background of something going on it is less expensive than if it is right there in the foreground (such as someone singing at a party)

[arcorob]

MOST of this makes no sense whatsoever from a videographer point of view. They are looking to make a SINGLE copy, not a mass distrubution and one would think, if it contains a copy of the brides and grooms song(which they purchased) , it is covered under fair-use. Maybe not.

But let me ask this. You film a reception, and the dj is playing dozens of tunes. DO you have the right (YES YOU DO) to capture this since he his playing at a public event, with a license and you are recording that event ?

[arcorob]

You opened a sticky one here. I have searched and reviewed and it appears very vague except

VIDEO + MUSIC = SYNC license
http://www.holytoledo.com/clear_music.htm

However, the problem here is its as if you are making an INDI film or one to be seen / sold to the masses.

Cant they have a videographer license ? Sheesh

[overloaded_ide]

I skipped over part of this thread cuase I gotto go.

Copyright laws are very confusing to say the least. I've read through most of them!!

It does cleary state however what the exact fees are to record a song! I think it is like 10cents per copy, or so much for the first 4 minutes and a set amount for each time period beyond that. So a 3-4 minute song has a set price, like 10cents, but one of those dumb 10minute songs costs more becuase of how long it is.

Those BONO admendments (I mean that 2 ways) got alot of things screwed up even worse than they were. Sony Bono did a good job of screwing up those laws with admendments when he was in office.

So any band can record any song for that amount of money without any permisions from any copyright holders!

HOWEVER when you get into syncronization, thats a different story. AND who do you need to contract with? The band that performed the song, or the owner of the song? This is what is really stupid! A song is a song, and the writer has nothing to do with a video, it is just another copy of the song, but you aren't coved by the same copyright as just recording it? WHY??
Nothing you put on the video has anything to do with the song writer! Why should he/she be entitled to any diferent contracts than recording?

That's one of the reasons many Elvis movies have not been released on VHS or DVD. They could not lisence the movies for a reasonable cost for some of the songs. When Orginanlly filmed the lisencing did not cover things like VHS because there was no such thing! So they have a choice of butchering the movies and cutting out some songs or not selling them and they choose to not yet sell them! At least at that time, a few years ago!

Another case of the blind leading the blind over a cliff!