No Nonsense vhs to dvd

[bigdog699669]

I am looking for a simple all in one way to go from vhs to dvd. I have an AIW 8500 with a 2.8 p4 and 1gig of ram with 120 gig hd. I have searched the forum and tried different guides, but they are all pretty involved with multiple stages and programs, and still can't seem to get very good results. I am trying to convert the videos for use in powerpoint, and most are less than 30 min long. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[housepig]

are you going from VHS to DVD, or are you going from VHS to PowerPoint?

I would recommend differing approaches depending on your final output, and how it's going to be presented (ie on tv vs a projector).

[presto]

Capture with ATI Multimedia Center and do the rest with TMPGenc DVD. It allows you to cut out unwanted sections in the same step where you add chapter points. (In fact it automatically adds a chapter point at each cut, If you don't want a chapter point there just delete). I believe there is a trial version.

This is by far the quickest way to get VHS onto DVD. Don't expect to do any fancy edits and you have to use one of their menus rather than creating you own.

I also recommend DVD shrink. You can put 4 or 5 hours of DVD on one Disk and if TMPGenc warns that it is too big to fit just go ahead and make the DVD folder on your hard drive then use DVD shrink (which is free) to reduce the size.

(I just re-read your post and noticed the line about Power Point. I replied as if you wanted to go to DVD. Now I'm not sure what you are trying to do).

[bigdog699669]

I would like to go to dvd, and use that format in powerpoint. I am not sure if it is better to do it this way or not.

[roynjen]

Man, I am on board for an answer on this post. I too have had numerous problem with VHS capture ~ getting it to DVD is a snap. Author the AVI or MPEG to .VBO and .ISO files and use DVD Shrink to get to fit on one DVD+/-R.

The main problem is the capture session. Tried everything from creating a new profile to shutdown everything ~ lowered the quality to help. Tried ShowBiz, ATI Capture, Virtual Dub, AM Capture ~ I HAVE TRIED EVERY GUIDE ON THIS WEBSITE. BAD RESULTS EVERYTIME ~ jumpy video (audio is good). Running a P4 2.4GHz, 1Gig of SDRAM, ATI 9000 PRO Radeon Card.

What gives with the capture?

[lordsmurf]

I would like to go to dvd, and use that format in powerpoint. I am not sure if it is better to do it this way or not.

This doesn't make any sense to me.

[bigdog699669]

I have tried your guide, but I still end up with shaky video. All I am looking for is a good quality dvd from vhs. It sounds real simple to me. There must be an easier way than a whole bunch of what seem to be incompatible programs to convert it.

[FulciLives]

I have tried your guide, but I still end up with shaky video. All I am looking for is a good quality dvd from vhs. It sounds real simple to me. There must be an easier way than a whole bunch of what seem to be incompatible programs to convert it.

The SIMPLE and EASY way which will also give you EXCELLENT results is as follows ...

Use a stand alone DVD recorder such as those made my PANASONIC, PHILIPS, PIONEER etc.

Most of the stand alone DVD recorders (such as ALL of the PANASONIC models which I recommend) have features that help BIG TIME in converting ANALOG video to DIGITAL such as a TBC (Time Base Corrector) and 3D Adaptive Comb Filter etc.

This will be the end of dropped frames, crapping quality video/audio, audio synch problems etc.

If you want some more "control" then capture to DVD-RAM and import to your computer where you can do more precise editing and create a custom DVD-R/DVD+R with your computer based DVD authoring software and burner. If you already have a DVD burner on the computer that doesn't support DVD-RAM then TOSHIBA makes a DVD-ROM/DVD-RAM reader for only $50 USD

The PANASONIC DMR-E50 (the cheapest stand alone DVD recorder they make but still very good) can be bought on-line for around $400 and the step up model ... the DMR-E80 ... is around $550 and includes an 80GB HDD which you can capture too and edit before burning to DVD-RAM or DVD-R

If you want to edit the DVD-RAM on your computer then all you need is a computer with a DVD burner BUT the point is this ... since you will not be doing any software MPEG2 encoding or capture with the computer it does not require a FAST computer. I import and edit DVD-RAM files using a P3 650Mhz with 256MB RAM. I could never use a standard analog capture card with such a slow computer.

The stand alone type of DVD RECORDERS are really the easiest and BEST solution to converting ANALOG video to DVD. Works great with BETA/VHS tapes, LaserDiscs, cable broadcast etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

I have tried your guide, but I still end up with shaky video. All I am looking for is a good quality dvd from vhs. It sounds real simple to me. There must be an easier way than a whole bunch of what seem to be incompatible programs to convert it.

Shaky video? Well, in that case, it is probably bad source. Or a source that needs help with a TBC or good VCR. My guide is about to be expanded to a full site, heavily addressing restoration, but the methods are pretty flawless.

[spectroelectro]

I'm with Lorsdmurf on this one. It's crucial that you start with a good source. If you can beg or borrow a VCR with digital tracking and preferably a built-in Time Base Corrector, you will eliminate a lot of problems. Oethwrise you _must_ use an external Time Base Corrector. An excellent choice: the AVT-8710, $170.
I use an external TBC and have zero problems with jumpy video or dropped frames. However, I also use a fine VCR with built-in digital noise reduciton and digital tracking, the Toshiba M785. The quality of the source VCR is extremely important -- my VCR cleans up and stabilizes older tapes like a champ. That's 80% of the problem solved right there.
The suggestion that you use a standalone DVD recorder is also excellent. The Panasonic models contain a built-in Time Base Corrector. Only problem there is that they cost a friggin' mint -- at least $500, and that's for the cheap models. That's a lotta scratch to spend just to archive your VHS tapes.
There's really nothing involved or complex about converting VHS to DVD. I do it all the time with results that look better than the orignal VHS tape due to the smoothing efect of DVD's MPEG-2 compression.
The only real issue with VHS -> DVD is capture. You _must_ capture without dropping frames and you _must_ be able to play your VHS without getting a jumpy picture. The first problem is sovled with a TBC, the second problem is solved by using a good VCR to play the video back. Even a good quality VCR is not expensive nowadays and the AVT 7810 is pretty cheap at $170.
Once you have got those down, all you need to do is convert your AVI files as you would any other AVi file. It's trivial once you've got your VHS composite output recorded to hard disk as AVI files. Capture is the only part of the equation that's even remotely difficult, and really isn't if you use a TBC and a high quality VHS or S-VHS VCR to play your VHS tape back.
IMPORTANT NOTE: If you are trying to capture video recorded at SLP, the 6-hour speed, dude, you're screwed. SLP is jumpy and has crap quality. There's just no other way to say it. SLP bites the big one. You will only get decent results by converting VHS recorded at 2-hour speed, VHS SP, to DVD. SLP blows.

[FulciLives]

I use an external TBC and have zero problems with jumpy video or dropped frames. However, I also use a fine VCR with built-in digital noise reduciton and digital tracking, the Toshiba M785. The quality of the source VCR is extremely important --

Makes me weep that TOSHIBA no longer makes a VHS VCR like they used too. At one point I had 3 of the M-754 models. Excellent quality VHS with 6 heads, Hi-Fi Stereo and Toshiba V3 technology which was the SECRET behind the quality.

They still make VHS VCRs with V3 but only 4 heads now and they don't make S-VHS anymore. I've never seen a VHS or S-VHS VCR give a better image than the my TOSHIBA M-754 models. Now I'm down to only one that works but I do have a multi-system model (very similiar but it actually has 8 heads ... again unheard of and no longer made by Toshiba) but I shudder to think what will become of my PAL tape collection once that puppy goes (it's getting old now but still working).

I have a JVC HR-S5900U S-VHS that isn't that old and the thing just died on me. Even brand new the picture was never as good as the Toshiba when playing VHS tapes.

I really need to get all (or at least the stuff I really need) of my VHS tapes to DVD using my Toshiba VHS VCRs before they die and I'm stuck with ... what?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[roynjen]

I am with bigdog699669 on this deal, Presto has no problems without this TBC. Is the only fix for this is to purchase this TBC? No software fixes, just more $$ on hardware?

New and learning. I play the VCR through my PC and everything looks ok ~ but when the capture sesson is finished, I have jittery video and audio is fine. I have a brand new VCR (SONY), and the source is relatively new (no noticeable video issues through the computer or TV). My wife is on my case, cuz I just dropped about $940 on capture card, hard drive, DVD Writer, and VCR ~ no wedding videos, kids sports, videos, or last nights mattress wrestling is on DVD as of yet, cuz the captures SUCK!!

I have not seen the need for this TBC in any of the guides or forums until today. Man am I in the doghouse ~ I would put that on DVD if the captures worked of that!?!

I will agree once the video is in the computer ~ making the DVD is a snap, just the capture is kicking my ____ right now.

[lordsmurf]

I have a brand new VCR (SONY), and the source is relatively new (no noticeable video issues through the computer or TV).

Hate to break it to you, but Sony has always made inferior VCRs, and the newer ones are the worst. Almost all consumer VCRs from the past 2 years are utterly digusting in terms of quality. Even the newer JVC machines are terrible. Let's face it: they no longer care about VHS. I'm glad I bought all my recent stuff from '98 to '00.

And about the tv seeing less errors, that's how it works. The capture cards are more "sensitive" because they see a lot more of the signal than your average tv or VCR.

Mattress wrestling? Sounds like your videos are more fun that mine.

The TBC is your best bet, ESPECIALLY on vertical shaking. That's the whole reason I have mine - to correct vertical shaking errors.

Software CAN fix your problems, but it will literally takes DAYS and DAYS to fix and encode a mere 30-minute clip. A Macintosh G4 on OS9 or OSX has such a filter in Final Cut Pro. It's the only program I'm aware of. I used it on a 1-minute clip once where the dual TBCs I use could not fix the errors. Took hours and hours and hours for that one minute. This kind of problem needs to be fixed BEFORE the computer sees it.

[roynjen]

Is this the recommended TBC of choice?

http://www.dvdirect.com/shop/product.asp?sku=AVT5008

Will this fix the jitters? I assume that audio is going to cost me something different since this is completely video only ~ or probably capture the audio like I do now will work.

What do you think about this BIGDOG??

Thanks LordSmurf (sincerely)~ tried your guide first ~ just did not say ANYTHING about "Oh, by the way, you need a TBC ~ or your not going to be happy"

[FulciLives]

I just made myself absolutly SICK by visiting the TOSHIBA website. Other than VHS VCR combos (such as DVD/VHS or some TELEVISIONS that have VHS built-in) they NO LONGER ... I mean NO LONGER make just plain old stand alone VHS VCRs.

I need to go throw up now.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I did find the W714 model in stock at www.bhphotovideo.com and if my memory is serving me well this was the last decent VHS VCR that TOSHIBA made. It was TOP OF THE LINE at the time but it is only 4 Head Hi-Fi (not 6 heads) but it does say that it uses V3 technology.

[FulciLives]

Is this the recommended TBC of choice?

http://www.dvdirect.com/shop/product.asp?sku=AVT5008

Will this fix the jitters? I assume that audio is going to cost me something different since this is completely video only ~ or probably capture the audio like I do now will work.

What do you think about this BIGDOG??

Thanks LordSmurf (sincerely)~ tried your guide first ~ just did not say ANYTHING about "Oh, by the way, you need a TBC ~ or your not going to be happy"

This is actually considered CHEAP for a stand alone TBC but I've seen a few users here recommend it over the OTHER somewhat CHEAP (yet more expensive) TBC made by DataVideo.

Based on what I've heard the AVT-8710 TBC should work just fine. It also has the nice side effect of removing MACROVISION and CGMS/A copy protection so if your capture device has those kinds of "issues" (and not all do) then that is another definate PLUS of this particular TBC device.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

Thanks LordSmurf (sincerely)~ tried your guide first ~ just did not say ANYTHING about "Oh, by the way, you need a TBC ~ or your not going to be happy"

It only applies to certain situations. Unfortunately, you're in one of them right now. I'd love to explain the "why" and "how" further, but it's late. This information will appear on my new site when completed.

I use a DataVideo TBC-1000. Here.
Also have a JVC HRS9800 SVHS with TBC/DNR. Here.
A JVC HRS7900 is decent too, just less RAM for the DNR.
The lower JVC models are nice too, but lack hefty TBC functions.

[bigdog699669]

Thanks for all of the info, I too will be in the doghouse if I can't get this thing to work. More $$$ and no results isn't good.

[housepig]

my question for the two guys who are having the most problems -

what format are you trying to capture to, and what settings are you using?

I've been capturing hardcore for the last 3 weeks, from grungy VHS and 20 year old Beta tapes, without any special hardware (except a capture card) and with off the shelf, consumer grade playback stuff. (A 20 year old Beta deck I got for free, a Laserdisc player I bought off eBay for $20, and a $60 Sharp VCR).

The only problems I have are problems that are on the source - if I've got a clean source, I get a clean capture, no jumps, no jitter.

since I'm going to dvd-r, I capture with iuVCR, at 720x480, 29.97 fps, 48khz audio, with either the Huffyuv or Picvideo MJPEG codecs. Then I convert to mpeg-2 after the fact with TMPGenc. What I end up with is as nice looking as the source.

and you can check my specs - it sounds like you guys have equal or better computers than I have.

So what software are you using, and what are your settings in it?

[roynjen]

I have tried the following:

LordSmurf's guide mentioned above ~ following every step and setting.

Have also tried the following:

Virtual Dub
ATI Multimedia Center
AM Capture
Pinnacle Studios 321

All above are set to 29.97fps, 14.4 Audio, and the rest are just default parameters. Have tried outputs of DVD, AVI, MPEG1, MPEG2, and even DiVx just to see.

Housepig, are you saying that you do not use a TBC? If this is the case, what gives, what the hell are you doing differently?

[roynjen]

Sorry ~ that audio was 44,100, and the capture is setup like in lordsmurf's guide of 352 x 480. Oops!

[housepig]

14.4 Audio

I'm hoping you mean 44.1 khz audio on that one... but even still, that's not dvd standard, 48Khz is, so you may want to change it...

also check whatever authoring software you are using, and what it expects to see as input - different software will expect different configurations for input. DVD Lab works perfectly with files that ReelDVD won't even let me import...

but any way you slice it, 44.1 audio is out of spec for dvd. try some captures at 48khz and see what happens. And get some rewritable discs so you're not making coasters!

and yeah, I don't have a TBC - either I'm "just lucky" or I'm being diligent with my file specs from point to point and program to program. Check your default settings - there may be something kinky in some setting that's causing your authoring program to go nuts and screw up your work.

[bigdog699669]

I have been using Lordsmurff's guide exactley. I have uninstalled and re-installed twice, triple checked settings, and still get jumpy video. Maybe it is my source, but tv doesn't seem much better. I am going to try a different source, and see what happens.

[FulciLives]

Just a thought but could the problem be something simply like the wrong field order?

Just a thought.

Maybe you CAPTURE experts could elaberate. 8)

CAPTURE is not my strong point.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
HousePig ... love your new Avatar

[lordsmurf]

I have been using Lordsmurff's guide exactley. I have uninstalled and re-installed twice, triple checked settings, and still get jumpy video. Maybe it is my source, but tv doesn't seem much better. I am going to try a different source, and see what happens.

Put in an original tape you bought from the store, the newest one you have access to. Capture 5 minutes. See how it looks. If I had to bet, I'd place my wager on bad source still.

FYI: The ATI software has changed slightly since my guide, so you can grab 48hz audio now, and their are VideoSoap filters to clean the video signal. TMPGenc is also now an unneeded step, depending on your system - certain older combinations of drivers/etc caused the interlace reversal error, but the new drivers/MMC are fine. As long as you read the RED text at the top of the guide, it'll explain my new findings that are not in the guide itself, but will be finding their way into the full site.

The 352x480 is the best resolution for VHS capture, but feel free to change it to 720x480 if you insist on max'ing out resolution.

And are you sure you are not dropping frames? The ATI MMC 7.5 and above tell you.

Honestly, MMC is the only decent software for use with an ATI card. Others may work, but MMC was made for this card, and is one of the few companies that actually provideds their OWN software to ensure quality captures. It is a WDM card too, so I'd avoid VirtualDub capturing.

It may also be a form of Macrovision, as there are several. The "jumping" error is one of them.

What exactly are you trying to capture? If from a home movie, can you use the video camera to playback? My JVC SVHS-C video camera recordings only plays perfectly on the camera, not on the VCR. It will jump or get eaten otherwise.

[bigdog699669]

I have tried several old and new tapes, the last was fresh out of the package. It looks more and more like the source. They are training videos for use in powerpoint, and if I leave them mpeg, they are extremely slow playing in some of the slower computers. Maybe I am way off track in using dvd as the best format, but I figured it would be the most reliable.

Thanks

[pixel]

The other guys seem to have given you almost every option to try to solve your problem, but here are a few which, however unlikely they may be, may help you:

Try doing a real-time mpeg2 capture with one of the DVD presets in MMC 8.1, see if that plays OK. If it does your problem may be during the encode.

Try capturing with an open GOP as some small closed GOPs can cause what seems like slight jerkiness.

Also, like housepig, I don't use a TBC (BTW: you can sometimes find cheap vcr copy boxes which have a function to fix vertical sync pulses instead of buying an expensive TBC) I find the finished DVD plays fine on my TV, though, if I was intending to play it on my PC I would definitely use a TBC.

[arrosen]

Bigdog - I've had the same problem as you...trying to capture VHS video through an AIW card or an external box ALWAYS gave me lousy looking results. I did ultimately fix my problem, but I don't really know why. I bought a digital camcorder and ran my olf VHS stuff through it, capturing the source into uncompressed AVI's through the firewire port (I bought a relatively inexpensive camcorder - Sony TRV350 - ~$400). I captured the video using ScenalyserLive (so that the "scenes" on my source would be broken into individual pieces), converted it all to MPEG2 using TMPGENC, and created the DVD using TMPGENC-DVD. The results are tremendous...

Buying a new Camcorder may be drastic (I needed a new one anyway), but I think that the key is that the A-D conversion is being done by the camera and that I am using TMPGENC to convert to MPEG2.

Hope this helps.

[FulciLives]

Bigdog - I've had the same problem as you...trying to capture VHS video through an AIW card or an external box ALWAYS gave me lousy looking results. I did ultimately fix my problem, but I don't really know why. I bought a digital camcorder and ran my olf VHS stuff through it, capturing the source into uncompressed AVI's through the firewire port (I bought a relatively inexpensive camcorder - Sony TRV350 - ~$400). I captured the video using ScenalyserLive (so that the "scenes" on my source would be broken into individual pieces), converted it all to MPEG2 using TMPGENC, and created the DVD using TMPGENC-DVD. The results are tremendous...

Buying a new Camcorder may be drastic (I needed a new one anyway), but I think that the key is that the A-D conversion is being done by the camera and that I am using TMPGENC to convert to MPEG2.

Hope this helps.

This is why the Canopus ADVC-100 and the DataVideo DAC-100 are so popular. They are stand alone FIREWIRE devices that accept ANALOG video (no TV tuner but they have S-Video and Composite Video plus "real" RCA type stereo audio jacks rather than a stupid mini-stereo jack as most sound cards have). These devices (both of which are nearly identical) will convert any ANALOG A/V input into DV video then feed that A/V to your computer through the FIREWIRE port. You have to capture it as DV AVI but then you can convert it to MPEG-2 with your choice of encoder (TMPGEnc, CCE, MainConcepts etc.)

In essence these stand alone boxes work the same way as a digital video camcorder that has an analog pass-thru feature. The benefit is that they are cheaper than buying a digital video camcorder. The Canopus ADVC-100 is usually somewhere around $250 - $300 USD whereas the DataVideo DAC-100 is usually no more than $200 (maybe as cheap as $180).

However, the original user who posted has a rather nice computer in terms of speed and HDD space so you would THINK that an analog type capture card would work A-OK since it is usually slower computers that have problems with such cards but then again the Canopus and DataVideo devices are so popular because SO many people DO have trouble with analog type capture devices (such as the AIW cards or the standard run-of-the-mill TV tuner only cards etc.)

I don't know if such a device is the answer to BigDog's problems.

However it might be worth it (this is directed towards BigDog) to try another type of capture card first (a cheaper card of course). Most TV tuner type cards are $60 or less. I've heard good things about the FlyVideo brand as well as the ASUS TV tuner. Either that or investigate the setup of your AIW video card including not just the software settings but also the software itself such as the device drivers etc.

I'm starting to suspect from reading all that BigDog is doing that his problem boils down to his capture card moreso than source quality.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[nelson133]

I am very pleased with my Canopus box, it works as advertised including Macrovision removal. For simple conversion, I suggest the Neodvd software fron mediostream, it has it's limitations, but it encodes very fast. On my AMD 2400+ machine, a 90 minute video is a dvd in less than 2&1/2 hours. incuding the video running time. There is a short guide on the Mediostream site that tlls you all you nee to know. By the way, it's all automated once you start the video, start the software and come back later to remove the completed dvd.