TBC ?

[Marco33]

After 2 weeks with my DAC-100, I can see I will need a TBC unit to complete the ensemble.

Even the slightest "anything" on the tape and the DAC droppes frames.

So, is this one of those deals... "you get what you pay for".

I've been surfing around and there are a lot of them. I dont need one that does back flips. Just to help the picture along.

Any simplitic models out there?

[The village idiot]

Datavideo TBC-100 or the stand alone TBC-1000. The TBC-1000 works well for me. If you can afford it, one of the higher models with the processing would be good too.

It also sounds like your tapes are in pretty bad shape. Each time the video loses sync (horizontal and verticle type not A/V sync) the Dac will stop capturing briefly. By most reviews, the DAC-100 is the most forgiving too.

What I'm saying is that the TBC may not do everything you think it should. You may still have spots where the video drops out.

[Marco33]

Actually, I think these tapes are in great condition.

Now, the old home movie tapes... I will not even bother with. The DAC would have a heart attack.

How about the SONY TBC BVR 55?

or, are all TBC's not created equal.

[Dragonsf]

I think your DAC 100 is not working properly.I had the same problems, even my TBC made things worse.I captured from the same tape (and even the same spots) with the DAC 100 and a HDB, and the HDB's performance was much better:no drops or fewer drops where the DAC couldn't even go.As I read/hoped , the DAC was more forgiving, I returned the DAC for replacement.
For a test just try to capture a VCR out with no tpae running and no SAT input, just the blue screen.Every 9th frame or so is bad or dropped.

[Marco33]

Replacement...

You think maybe you got a bad one?

Returned to maker or where you bought it?

[txpharoah]

Troubleshoot your system for dropped frames before blaming the card:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157660

If all that fails, look up info on your card. May have quirks.

If not, then at that time, yes, maybe the card is bad.

[Marco33]

er...?

What card?

The FireWire card?

Only drops frames a certain scenes. These scenes are not graphic intensive.

I think we need a new word for the way the DAC drops frames.

When a regular capture card drops frames it skips over that frame and goes to the next but, you hardly notice those frames droped.

When the DAC (DV converter) "dropes frames" it skips over a bunch of seconds in film so, it actualy cuts out FULL seconds of film or a continuous cluster of frames.

Dropped frames cluster...

or

Dropped cluster

or

Cluster Truck

[The village idiot]

Sounds like you got a lemon. Better return it for another one. Try the place you purchased it first.

[Dragonsf]

Replacement...

You think maybe you got a bad one?

Returned to maker or where you bought it?

Returned it to the shop.Just for fun, I counted these "clustered drops"- they last about 48 frames, i.e. 2sec in PAL country.
If you do the blue screen test, connect a TV to the S-Video out of the DAC:the screen will jump up and down at the bad frames (every 9 frames or so).This won't happen with the HDB.No PC, no FW card involved so far.

[Marco33]

It's 41 Frames 2 seconds here. NTSC

[Dragonsf]

It's 41 Frames 2 seconds here. NTSC

New TimeZone? I thought 2*29.97=59.94 frames, but one never knows.

[Marco33]

No, your right.

It just seems to ALWAYS drop 41 frames when it has a problem. It seems to me to be about 2 seconds.

[Dragonsf]

Maybe the number of DAC dropped frames is always around 41 (in NTSC and PAL).And both looked like 2 secs (to you and to me as well).
ANyway, 41 frames are at least 40 dropped too much.
I hope, that the replaced device will work.
BTW:Have you tried the blue screen test?

[Marco33]

Not yet but, if it does... then it is the box.

Right now I'm in the process of conversing with the maker.

[Dragonsf]

Please report about your proceedings with the maker!

[FL350innh]

Marco,
I just email you off list... This is pretty weird. I have not seen anything like whats happening to yours on my unit... The tapes are in as good a shape as your saying then I'd be looking at the unit.... The fact you get the same 41 frame drop is some indicator... But what? Do you want to send me one of the tapes? I'll try it up here and see what happens..

[wwaag]

Marco,
Another possibility to consider is your VCR (assuming you're talking VHS tapes--if not then disregard). I have a couple of JVC units with a TBC built-in. They seem to work reasonably well. I use an ADVC-100 and I also lose frames whenever there occurs a major "glitch" for want of a better term. It often shows itself as a large "pop" or distortion in the sound, although the video looks OK. I've also learned that it's better to disable automatic tracking and do a manual adjustment. Even then, you still may have problems. Bottom line--your're still dealing with VHS tapes which are pretty poor source material to begin with, especially if the source and playback machines are different. As always, GIGO. Just my $.02.

wwaag

[Marco33]

After speaking to the teck guy on their site... there may be a slight chance that my unit is not working correctly.

Let's say it's fine.

Isn't the whole idea of the DAC DV to convert one formate to another. So if it can't convert a tape (I feel that's in great condition) over to the computer properly... then what would it be usefull for?

Besides going from PC to VHS.

[Dragonsf]

Marco, the DAC (and similar devices) are useful only if they work both ways:from analog (VHS) to DV and vice-versa.If they can't do it flawlessly (or within a certain error tolerance), they are not useful at all.
My tolerance is a max of 1 dropped/bad frame within 3 min of capture.
The HDB (with is an intolerant device) makes 1 bad frame per minute, which is a lot of work to get rid of them in the final DVD.That's why I tried to use the DAC 100, which (at least my unit) is even worse.

[Marco33]

I was just watching a recent conversion of a tape. Normaly it's been dropping the 2 seconds of film. But, at one point in the DVD I made, the whole screen went black for 30 seconds then came right back to where it left off.

This is just intolerable.

[Marco33]

I sent my DAC out to be tested. They said it's fine. They also said that my VHS player is not at fault. I believe my sytem is running fine. Must be the tapes.

I'm looking into a cost effective TBC.

[The village idiot]

Datavideo TBC-1000, or maybe the TBC-100. I have a 1000 and it never gives me any problems. The output is very stable (as it should be).

[Marco33]

Have you used both?

What's the 100 lacking that the 1000 has?

EDIT: Looks like the 100(PCI) would be system dependant. Not realy solving problems that way.

[Marco33]

How about a VCR with TBC, like this one?

JVC DVS2U 4 head Super VHS VCR (DVS-2U, DVS 2U)

JVC DVS2U 4 head Super VHS VCR (DVS-2U, DVS 2U), Mini DV Format &High Resolution Super VHS and VHS, Super VHS ET Recording, Pro - Cision 19 micron width EP Heads, DigiPure Technology w/ TBC and 4MB Frame Memory, PCM Digital Audio (DV) andHi-Fi VHS Stereo with MTS Decoder, VCR Plus+ with "Cable Eye" Cable Box Controller

Product Description
The HR-DVS2U is a unique all-in-one video solution combining miniDV and Super Hi-Fi Stereo in one VCR. Enjoy high quality and creative convenience with this double-deck featuring easy playback of Mini DV, automatic editing from Mini DV to Super VHS/VHS, and extensive connectivity with Non-Linear Editing systems.
Features:

Mini DV Format &High Resolution Super VHS and VHS

Super VHS ET Recording

Pro-Cision 19 micron width EP Heads

DigiPure Technology w/ TBC and 4MB Frame Memory

PCM Digital Audio (DV) andHi-Fi VHS Stereo with MTS Decoder

VCR Plus+ with "Cable Eye" Cable Box Controller

Jog/Shuttle on Remote

Insert Editing with Flying Erase Head

Audio Dubbing

DA4(Double Azimuth) Head Helical Scan System

Auto Index and Index Search

Digital AV Tracking

Plug & Play

Auto SP-EP Timer Recording

Active Video Calibration

Multi-Brand TV/DBS Compatible Remote with Jog / Shuttle

Express Programming

S-video Input on Front / Back Panel

Two S-Video Output on Back Panel

Rear AV Inputs, Gold Plated Front Inputs

Two A/V Outputs

181 Channel Tuner

1Year /12 Event Timer(6 event each for DV & S-VHS/VHS)

Multi Lingual Color on Screen Menu

[Dragonsf]

I got one of those JVC VCRs with TBC (allthough a different model).
The problem is with old tapes:they don't get better, sometimes even worse with TBC.So, don't expect too much from this.

[IJM]

Looks like the 100(PCI) would be system dependant. Not realy solving problems that way.

The Datavideo TBC-100 is not actually a PCI device. It's just using your computer as a box to live in and as a source of power. It just slots into a PCI slot with a dummy edge connector and requires a Molex power connector to be plugged into it.

But it doesn't have an audio loop-through of any kind. Without a buffered audio loop you may find that your sound may be out of sync, but that should be easy to compensate for anyway.

Have you considered an ACE Convertor from GTH Electronics? They export to the U.S. This acts as a full frame TBC, but you also have the benefit of all kinds of colour correction features, and buffered audio.

I hope this helps you.

Ian.

[Marco33]

L 313, their money converter is down but, I can't imagin that the price conversion is less than $200.

If you realy think about it the DAC's only real use is making copies of store bought VHS tapes. Even tho it's main selling point is being able to convert VHS to DV it can't be used (alone) to convert old home movie tapes. It drops frames like a Mo Tpgo.

If I knew then what I know now...

Thanks for digging around and trying to help but, like you said it may not solve all my problems.