DVD-R V's DVD+R

[MATT_THE_MOUSE]

PLEASE GUYS!! Can anyone please tell me and all the other simple minded guys out there what the basic difference is between the DVD-R and the DVD+R blanks..........The main answer i really need is"which one gives out better results and which one works well on most stand-alone DVD players??

THANX FOR ANY HELP

[i-on-s]

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=118

[mkelley]

The answer seems to be... either.

Some folks swear by +R, others swear at it. Quite honestly, if you're going to buy a burner your best bet right now is to get the Sony so you can do both (or you can wait until the dual burner Pioneer is out). Hedging your bets with both formats seems like a real smart move right now.

As to trying to make a disk to play on the most machines -- it's pretty much a crapshoot. Using good media, AC3 audio (for NTSC) and doing verifies afterwards are good practices, but in the end there will always be some machines that will have trouble with your disks regardless of what you do.

The industry is getting better, and my hunch is that within a year or two all players will play just about everything -- for now just tell whoever you give/sell disks to that if they don't play you'll remake them or give them their money back.

[vance43211]

i'll agree to that

[smittymike19]

i dont agree with that. I think the major decision factor seems to be the cost of media right now. Do you think your dvd burner (whether + or -) will be worth anything in 2 years? NO. But I do know that if mfgs. want to sell their burners they will make them be able to read both formats. The sony dual format is 350.00 us, but i just picked up a cendyne -r for about 180. (almost half the price).in say 2 years when the - format (or + format) stops being produced, they will have 24x burners for 100.00 (which you will want to upgrade to anyway, so you can decide then) , just take a look at the CDR history. Keep your money in your pocket, dont waste your money on the dual format. They wont stop producing either format anytime soon, so just get a single format. (whether it be + or -, is up to you). The - format is cheaper right now ( but maybe not for long0. I have both + dvdrs and - dvdrs and both seem equally compatable so its really a guess as far as that is concerned. good luck.

[mkelley]

With all due respect I think you're wrong.

For one thing, the Sony drive is selling now for $250, so your drive wasn't all that big a deal (you'll spend more than the cost difference in media in a month or so). For another thing there are some big differences in the way CDR media is written versus DVD -- that's the principle reason 4x media is difficult to produce. I'm not actually sure they will *ever* be able to produce higher writing media -- for sure it won't be within two years.

Blue laser *may* make these drives obsolete, particularly if HDTV ever really takes off. But they are sure to be backwards compatible, since the millions upon millions of DVD players being sold don't play blue laser. So the drives you buy today will probably be as viable five years from now.

If you want to compare history don't look at CDR, just look at the Panasonic standalone writer. That writer wrote at 2x two years ago and is still state of the art -- note that it hasn't been surpassed, just lowered somewhat in price (it went from around $900 to $600 -- hardly earth shattering in two years). DVD burners are likely to go down *somewhat* but I strongly suspect $150 is about the limit, particularly as these drives end up being dual format.

I will bet anyone willing to give odds that a year from now they won't even produce drives that aren't dual format -- as soon as Pioneer releases their dual drive in a few months the bandwagon won't be stoppable.

That doesn't mean if you only have a single format drive you're outta luck, but anyone looking to buy a new drive would be foolish not to consider the dual drives.

[smittymike19]

For one thing, the Sony drive is selling now for $250,
Where is it selling for that?


I'm not actually sure they will *ever* be able to produce higher writing media -- for sure it won't be within two years
They are actually releasing an 8x burner see link...http://www.emedialive.com/r18/2003/news0103_02.html

(you'll spend more than the cost difference in media in a month or so)
If i'm incorrect forgive me but isnt -r the cheaper media right now?

So the drives you buy today will probably be as viable five years from now. thats funny, they will still work, but right now i can get a 52x cdr burner for 9.99 from officemax, do you really think i want to use the 8x cdr burner i bought 3 years ago for almost 200.00? the ponit is i will be able to upgrade in a few years to a much faster dvd burner for very little money. if you think technology will stop then go ahead and spend the extra money on the dual format. or wait until they come down in price, better yet wait 3 years and get a 52x dvd burner for 9.99...LOL

[mkelley]

Maybe you had better read your own references a little more closely.

According to that article, it appears that 16x is where DVD writing will cap out -- due to media density. So you won't be getting a 52x DVD burner, let alone a 24x DVD burner in your lifetime, bud.

And if you followed these matters at all instead of just inventing things you'd know that even 36x CD burners are having all kinds of problems -- like with media exploding (yep, I mean exploding) as they are turned at these ever higher speeds. Since DVD media has to spin *much* faster to achieve the same speeds, they may have problems with even 16x writing.

So, no, you won't be upgrading in a few years to a very cheap DVD burner and, yes the 4x burners they are selling today will be *very* viable in years to come. While technology marches on, the laws of physics remain the same.

[VinnySem]

This issue has been beat to death. I think what's more important than -R or +R is media QUALITY. Get a dual writer, get a few disks each of + and -, back up some movies and try them in several DVD players. And from those, chose whichever gives you the best quality without having to pay through the nose, unless you don't care about price.

Personally, I stick with the BeAll's. Good quality, decent price, and play in every DVD player I've tested them in. Hell I think you could play those with a maglite and a white bedsheet.

[LanEvo7]

I'd agree with smitty, you can get a single format (whether + or -) for under $150 right now after rebates. Officemax, Office Depot, Staples etc, has sales like these almost every other week. I don't know where you are getting the Sony Dru-500 for under $250. Why are you going to spend an extra $100-$200 for a dual format Sony when in a couple years, if one format phases out, the drives will be under $100 each. It doesn't matter which format you get right now, because they are compatible with each other. A + disc will read in a - drive and visa versa.

Media wise, -R media is less expensive than +R media(by about 50%). In the retail sector though(ie best buy, staples, etc.) +R media seems to be more abundant.

[mkelley]

I love BeAlls -- but where are you getting them nowadays?

All the major online stores I buy from are out of stock on them. I really need another 100 before the end of the month (heck, I'd buy another 200 if I can find them for a reasonable price). I don't want the 4x ones, just the 2x DVD-R. Any source?

[VinnySem]

www.rima.com. They have both the silver top and printable BeAll's. Good price, great service.

[Gurm]

*ahem*

Ok, there are a few differences to think about.

The TECHNICAL differences are largely moot. It's complex and unimportant.

The PRACTICAL differences, if you're doing all your authoring on your PC and then burning to DVD... are very slim. It all boils down to which works in more players.

In _MY_ personal experience, +R works in a LOT of players that otherwise do NOT support burnables. This has to do less with +R being "amazing" and more with the fact that when +R was designed (by Philips, the people who designed CD's and DVD's in the first place) it was designed to look MORE like a real DVD and LESS like a burnable... because one of the big gripes with -R was that the machine could tell that it wasn't an original quite easily (and lots of manufacturers such as Sony purposely don't allow burnt discs to work).

Now, OTHER advantages to +R are limited, but if you want to do a lot of homemade DVD editing, or semi-pro DVD editing, it is superior for the FOLLOWING REASON amongst others:

- You can make scene changes after the fact, and they will playback seamlessly in REGULAR DVD PLAYERS.

Will you use this feature? Is it worth the fact that +R media are pricier, and +R drives 50% more expensive? I can't answer that.

+R is the newer format, to be sure. I bought a +R drive, because Plextor makes it and I trust Plextor. Yes, I know it's an NEC oem drive. I do NOT trust Sony drives. Their QC is just too iffy (50% of them work AWESOME and the other 50% have varying degrees of issues, historically). But again, that's just me personally.

Other people will tell you that -R is "more compatible", because in their experience it works in a lot of devices. *shrug*

One thing I can say for sure - if you want to use your media in a PS2 (either PS2 backups OR movie backups/home movies), you're better off with a -R, since older PS2's (v1-v4) have MUCH better luck with -R.

- Gurm

[Jayhawk]

I don't believe there is a price difference if you shop around. Office Depot is selling 30 Verbatim +R OR -R for $32.77 this week ($1.10 each).

Last week I bought a 10 pack of Verbatim 4X +R with jewel cases for $16.99. Best Buy had a sale that same weekend for 25 Fujifilm +R for $40 after a $20 mail in rebate. Compusa is offering 50% off all Fuji. DVD media.

Best Buy's everyday price for Fuji is $2.00 quantity 100. MicroCenter's price for for Verbatim +R/-R has been $17 for 10 for the last 2 months so that's probably an everyday price too.

At Meritline a 50 Pack of BeALL™ 4.7GB 4X Certified DVD-R Blank Media General Purpose DVDR Disc in Cake Box is $2.54 Each. I can beat that price at Besy Buy and I don't even need a sale.

[mkelley]

Gurm,

I don't want to argue here (truly :>) because I had always understood the same things you are repeating here about +R. But this weekend I tried my first +R burn (with TDKs) and so far it's been the *only* media I can't get to play in *any* of my players.

I'm not saying it's + versus -, but it was extremely disheartening to me in that I've never had a problem burning -R no matter what the brand of disk was (I've used about 20 different kinds of -R). They have always worked in all my players (and three of the players are brand new, having been bought in the last year or so). I'm guessing it might have something to do with the fact these were 4x disks -- and I may try to create one more coaster by forcing the burn at 2x -- and it might just be the burner itself (despite the fact it burns -R it might just not do +R well) but it just goes to show there isn't any easy way of categorizing this stuff. IOW, sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't.

[SLICK RICK]

At my local BestBuy +R and -R cost the same amount of $. So I really cant agree with the price difference. To me it all comes down to personal preference.

SLICK RICK

[mkelley]

www.rima.com. They have both the silver top and printable BeAll's. Good price, great service.

Vinny,

Are you *sure* those are the BeAlls 2x? I ask because normally when places mention the Samsungs they always qualify it with "BeAll" (which Rima does not) and I think I remember someone saying there was a generic disk (not a BeAll) that was marketed under the Samsung label at some places.

When you get your cakeboxes, do they say "BeAll" on them?

[VinnySem]

They aren't BeAll branded, they're Samsung OEM media. I checked the media ID, they say BeAll, and I visually inspected several in great detail compared to a branded jewel case disk I got from Meritline a while ago. They are identical to the the branded disk in every way except the printable surface. When I got them, Rima had the best price anywhere for them. Meritline/CDRDVDRMedia now have them at a great price, with free shipping, and they have the branded disks in spindle pack. Shop4tech has them also.

[smittymike19]

the compatability issue for me has not been an issue at all. I have 2 different toshiba dvd players and a 4 year old sony player. The truth is that i have +R discs burnt from a friend and the -rs burned from my burner and they both seem to play just as well across the board (all work on all players). The point is that i just dont know why you would cover your self by buying 2 formats when neither disc will likely to be stopped being produced anytime soon. When either is stoppe dbeing produced (way down the road) you will be able to buy a faster ( i dont know how much faster ) burner at a significant reduction in price. But spend your money on what you want, just giving my advice is all. FYI when beatamax and VHS were competing the price of vcrs was 1000. Now you cant give either away.

[DeadLamb]

well as someone looking to buy my first dvr here in the next few weeks or so I'm in the same boat as the orginal poster as far wondering what to get..

In the end, after looking over the site here and reading up on what others have said about the DVD player I have etc (I see it can play both +/- ok) it really just comes down to price. While the drives might or might not get that much faster you can be sure they WILL get cheaper and cheaper. So I'm thinking along the lines of, would I rather have a Pioneer 105 and between 50-80 dvd-r blanks or for the same cost a Sony Dual Burner and no media? Well I would get media for the Sony anyways, but ya get the idea as the point of comparison cost wise and when looking at it that way the Pioneer 105 sound better for my needs.

Worst case? Media prices shift but I tend to buy better level stuff now just for CD-r so I'm use to not walking out of place with a $5, 100 disk spindle of "Biffy's House Brand - We done make good disks" heh So that is not really an issue.

Few years go by and as others have said, I too just plan dump/sell the drive and get whatever is the newest / fastest or media "winner" as far as the whole +/- goes. Both format will be around for awhile and one might as well save money on a burner and blow it on media.

So I would suggest that the first poster look around at what he wants to do with the disks he burns and based your pick of a burner off that as I have or just wait a month more. With new +/- on the way everything will get cheaper by mid summer. Cheap = less of a issue as to whatever you buy.

[Gurm]

mkelley,

You have a dual-format burner?

Yikes. Which one?

I have issues with those things. LOTS of people do. The NEC ND1300A, for example, just shits all over itself with certain +R media. Gets exactly what you're describing.

Same with the Sony. Every other firmware update is just a complete piece of garbage.

I'm REALLY hoping that Liteon gets it right, 'cuz I'm starting to think that there's something intrinsically difficult about multi-format burners.

- Gurm

[NR4P]

I looked at it this way.
First, I have a 2 year old DVD player in my home theater. What will it accept? For me it was "+". Newer units today handle most everything. So unless you are willing to buy something new, this accounts for a significant part of decision.

Dell, Compaq/HP have lion's share of PC desktop's globally. They put "+" buners in. This may force the ultimate direction more than technology. PC vs Mac, VHS vs Beta. Numbers drove the major adoption. Probably good way to forecast what may win.

[Gurm]

Yes, that is also true. If you buy a new Dell/HP/Compaq with a DVD burner in it, it's a +R burner.

- Gurm

[vitualis]

This has to do less with +R being "amazing" and more with the fact that when +R was designed (by Philips, the people who designed CD's and DVD's in the first place) it was designed to look MORE like a real DVD and LESS like a burnable...

An often stated "fact" but is hype. Most tests put +R and -R compatibility as pretty much the same.

BTW, Philips had a lot to do with the design of the CD (along with several other partners) but NOT DVDs.

Regards.