Money is no object

[ashtones]

Can anyone tell me from their experience what is THE best capture card for doing the following :

Capture full reolution MPEG2 (720 x480)

On board sound as to eliminate any synch problems

Be able to capture analog and maybe DV

Has to have excellent quality comparable to Tmpegenc or CCE

And like I said price is not an issue (within reason--I dont have $30,000 to spend)

[i-on-s]

Why dont you check out the Capture Card section of this site if you wanna know.

[Quigonsean]

You might wanna look at the cards on Sonics website. They have have some nice ones from high level pro-sumer, up to Hollywood Professional. The ones in the prosumer area are probably around a grand and a half but they will smoke anything you can get at CompUSA.

Sean

[ashtones]

I'll check out Sonics website. Thanks. And on the capture card list.. I have found it not to be 100% accurate. For example the list says the a Pinnacle DV500 will capture mpeg2. I own this card and it is a very good card although it will not capture directly to mpeg so the capture card list is a tad misleading. Also I was hoping to get some real world experience from people on this site who had really good quality cards.

[dafoe]

I know this isn't what you were asking about, but I would suggest that you buy a standalone DVD recorder.

This would save you from dealing with all the software bugs and other problems that come with doing video on a PC.

I have the Panasonic DMR-E20 and the HS-2. I love both of them. I don't have to worry about audio sync or video quality.

Just food for thought if you haven't considered getting one.

[BJ_M]

sonic solution has good cards -

the movie maker line is also excellent ..

most higher end cards only have sdi inputs - then you will find component next ..

[dcsos]

I've not had any direct experience with this card..
But If you're looking for a good MPEG-2 capture card that has AUDIO On BOARD for PC...
I'm looking if anyone has bought this
Cause the sonic card is many thousands
and what would be my next choice -the Wired Media Press only works on MAC

So its Consumer PINNACLE..
OR... Has any one used this thingy..

THE VITEC CAPTURE CARD for MPEG-2 also does 1

http://www.videoguys.com/dcm.html

[BJ_M]

yes ive used the vitec , i had one for awhile .

the canopus encoder cards have better quality (except for the dvrex add on card)

[ashtones]

Well I'll get a standalone sooner or later but for this purpose it needs to go into the computer. The one thing I have noticed with Hollywood DVD's it that even at low bitrates, say 3 or 4mb/s , the quality is outstanding. I have a friend who has a Haugpauge card and he says the quality is great but the bitrate has to be at like 10 or 12 to acheive that quality. Thats fine but you could not get 2 hours with the bitrate that high. I have seen the canapus cards and the higher end Matrox cards. Anyone used these at all. Do they capture in real time mpeg2? And if so is it near broadcast quality?

[dcsos]

Yes BJ_M,
if you know which CANOPUS products capture right to MPEG-2 and 1 -please
SDI input is not necessary for home use though
ANALOG composite is fine..because component S-VHS is barely better, and none of my VCRS have real BETACAM type component outs so a
canopus component in card(if such exists) would be wasted here

[BJ_M]

the canopus mvr1000 sounds good for you then ...

http://www.canopus.com/US/products/MVR1000/pm_mvr1000.asp

[vhelp]

hi ashtones,

The one thing I have noticed with Hollywood DVD's it that even at low bitrates, say 3 or 4mb/s , the quality is outstanding.

ok, number 1, then are using the original (untainted) source, FILM. What
ever form it may be in. No MPEG-2 to re-encode from etc. NO noise etc.
So, that is why they can use lower bitrates in their source.
But, take a capture source form even sources like Satellite tv, and if the
source is poor to begin with (due to AnY number of reasons) then you'll
have problems. Plenty of pixelations even in these sources.. causing one
to have to raise the bitrate even higher, and sometimes MUCH higher.
Plus, add to this pool, the level of YOUR "start to finish" knowledge or skill.
You'll never readh what Hollywood can produce (though I've seen some DVDs
that looked a bit low on the quality side)

If you're looking to produce as close to Hollywood's quality, you're in for
some rough times. The source HAS to be in excellent quality. Cable tv
and Attenna jut wont cut it. But Satellite might, IF it's airing a program in
good quality (due to whereever the footage is from, and how it was processed,
and weather or not, the station taints the source's final quality) etc.

I have a friend who has a Haugpauge card and he says the quality is great but the bitrate has to be at like 10 or 12 to acheive that quality. Thats fine but you could not get 2 hours with the bitrate that high.

You friend is right. But, did you ask him/her what his/her source was from ??
* Cable, attenna, satellite, etc.
* what process did he/she use to obtain results etc.

Well, that's about it.
-vhelp

[ashtones]

the majority of my source will be from my MiniDV camcorder. I may from time to time get content from satilite but mastly dv. I want to save time from software encoding but I do not want to lose the quality. Hollywood hires compressionists for their dvd's. So I would imagine these guys have the know how plus the equipment to get it done right. They probably also use encoders that cost tens of thousands of dollars. I am willing to pay a few thousand for a great card.

[vhelp]

hi ashtones,

Question,
Is your DV cam able to shoot PROGRESSIVE frames ??

If so, then you're half-way (if not whole) there !!
If not, maybe you could just spend the 2 grand on a PROGRESSIVE cam,
and do away w/ Interlace (which is the single most cause for drop in quality) bar none!!

I have the Canon ZR-10 and of course, shoots only in Interlace mode.
I get good results, but deffinately nowhere's near Hollywood, though I'd
sure love to have a PROGRESSIVE mode for this cam - - even if it were
30 fps - - wouldn't matter too much for me, as quality WOULD be great.

-vhelp

[ashtones]

Yeah I agree. My next cam is going to be a Canon GL2. It has 3ccd which is real good. Im not sure if it is progressive. I am using a JVC now. I think the biggest thing you can do to impact any "home" video shoot is the lighting. You take a pro camera ($20,000 lens) and have bad lighting and you are going to end up with bad quality. This is a hobby for me. Sometimes I think maybe I shouldn't of gotten into such an expensive hobby but oh well.

On a different note has anyone used the new Sony computers out that come with a built in capture card? I wonder what the quality on those are?

[vhelp]

hi ashtones..

Lighting..

I agree 100% on this !!

You have (MUST) have good lighting. Outside is one thing, but inside, you
can't rely on your usual or tipicle indoor ligthing. You have to have add'L
lighting. And, relfectives will definlately add to your blush (IYKWIM)

My next cam will deffinately be of PROGRESSIVE and WideScreen (or better
[true]) widesdcreen mode. I use mine in widescreen mode, even if it is fake.

It's better than nothing. I also save on the bitrate w/ WS footage. I would
hope that that is the way you are heading ??

-vhelp

[ashtones]

Well I have not tried to use it yet but I have shot some footage in what my camera says widescreen stretch. Basically when I view it on the LCD the picture looks squeezed. I am going to try to import it in premeire under the widescreen setting and see if it is true 16:9. I agree on the widescreen comment. I dont have yet but I am sure to have sooner or later a widescreen tv. One thing that really made me angry was to learn all the stuff I have encoded over the years in tmpeg is not 16:9. Its just 4:3 with black bars hard encoded. So I am sure when I get that TV I will have 2 pairs of black bars to look at.

[jsnkc]

Get the Canopus Amber card, it captures with great quality both MPEG 1 and 2 with audio.

[mkelley]

I guess I'm a little confused here. You say you are looking to mostly capture DV footage -- why the heck are you even worried about a capture card? Just get a firewire card and any decent computer will capture easily at a broadcast quality rate -- indistinguisable at least from your original footage.

I have a broadcast suite (it's about 5 years old now -- cost well over $20K) that we used for our educational videos and broadcast work -- now I capture with a $50 firewire card from our DV cams. Footage looks just as good as component capture from the high-end suite.

It's a *trifle* slower working with Premiere than our NLE (and our NLE is running on an old NT box while our firewire setup is on a top of the line XP box) but well worth the switchover. But if I'm totally off the mark here in what you want or are trying to do then just ignore this old man.

[ashtones]

I saw the Amber card and it looks promising. Oh and btw I have no trouble capturing footage from a dvcam or a vhs machine. I just want a card that will convert the footage in real time to mpeg2 as to save time encoding with software.

[BJ_M]

the mvr1000 is a newer version sort of the amber .. both are good , the amber has been around for awhile and popular w/ the dvrex systems .

the quality is really about the same and the mvr1000 has better XP support .. other that that - both are good cards , just a $1000+ apart in price ..

[mkelley]

I saw the Amber card and it looks promising. Oh and btw I have no trouble capturing footage from a dvcam or a vhs machine. I just want a card that will convert the footage in real time to mpeg2 as to save time encoding with software.

Okay, I gotcha. I was a little confused because it looked to me as though you wanted to capture camera footage (and we all know footage has to be edited in order to be usable... and we all know we should *not* be editing MPEG in order to preserve quality).

If all you need do is real time encoding of existing edited programs then like the other poster here I'd recommend getting a standalone machine like the Panasonic -- we have one in our shop for exactly this purpose and it works just fine (and it's about the same cost as the mvr1000 card but you get a burner included :>)

[ashtones]

Standalone won't work because I need customized menus. Here is my routine. Capture footage to the hard drive. Edit and add effects and what not. Then send it back to the camera in dv. Or I should say that is what my routine would be. Then re-capture through a harware encoder making the file ready to be authored. The only difference now is that instead of sending it back to the camera I spend 12 hours encoding with tmpeg. Which doesnt bother me all that much but if I have people waiting on the finished project that will not do. It looks like I will go with the MR1000 or the Amber. Did you say these were very simular cards?

[mkelley]

12 hours encoding? You've got to be kidding.

Even with projects approaching 3 hours it rarely takes more than that to encode (admittedly we have a high end machine, but it's not dual processors and only 2.4GZ -- there are a lot faster machines available nowadays).

TMPGEnc is about the slowest encoder around, as most people will tell you. It produces nice results, but no better than a few others which are *much* faster. Usually it's money that's a concern -- with more money people use MainConcept or CCE.

For you to *recapture* you video (to DV) and then capture it again means you'll actually be taking *more* time than you would if you used a decent encoder. Look at it this way: let's say you have two hours of edited footage. It will take you four hours to record it to your camera and then turn around and real time encode it. It will take me about three hours to encode it -- for far less money (MainConcept costs around $150 -- but I got it free with my Premiere upgrade).

I dunno -- just doesn't make sense to me (but then again, I'm an old man and probably don't understand these things).

[spiderman2k1]

There is nothing as good as CCE. for real time I like the Dazzle 2 there a time to record tv show's also PVR 250 is good ATI is oh ok if you get one cheep

[BJ_M]

yes your workflow is a little convoluted .. if its DV source - just capture and edit it with vegas and then frame serve out to CCE SP , it will encode (if you use the same setings as the canopus cards - whch is single pass VBR) as fast or faster than the canopus cards with better quality .. you will be done sooner and the cost of vegas + cce sp wil be nearly the same as the hardware encoder .

this is exactly a method i use except my source is component and/or SDI and/or Frames ..
if you use more than 1 pass VBR , quality will increase and it is not a whole lot more time - specially if you send it out to render on a second machine while keep working on the first ..

this way you can keepupgrading software and not be locked into a hardware that is not upgradable in the future --

[ashtones]

Ok then let me ask you this. Is it time to upgrade my computer. Im using an 866mhz pIII with 512mb sd ram. If I upgrade to a 2.4 your saying I can them software encode in real time?

[VideoTechMan]

Ok then let me ask you this. Is it time to upgrade my computer. Im using an 866mhz pIII with 512mb sd ram. If I upgrade to a 2.4 your saying I can them software encode in real time?

Yes that would definitely need an upgrade....of course you dont have to go with a 2.4......you can get the 3.06Ghz processor with HT (Hyperthreading) technology and can probably get great results. However I have also heard that dual-processor systems have done well also when it comes to software encoding since it is a CPU-intense task. I suggest going with a gig of RAM and possibly going with the 3.06 processor.....though i think only the newer motherboards now will support the newer processors. And from what i know DDR RAM is pretty effecient as well. Hope this helps, though i know it isnt much.

VideoTechMan