New Blue Laser DVD-R is out. Sony released before standard!

[DJRumpy]

I just read in my PC Magazine that Sony has released a blue laser DVD-R before the standard has been ratified. It will place 23 GB in it's own format. It will also burn DVD-R/-RW format (no word on +R). It can supposedly record 2 hours of HDTV. Toshiba, in response, plans to deliver a competing product that can use 15GB to 20GB discs using a different format. Here we go again...

[minchjp]

WOW!!

[Gazorgan]

He who is first to Market, does not always win......but profits are good also!!!

Look at M$, you can make DeFacto standards by being first to market, and make it permanent if your there long enough!!!

[DJRumpy]

I'm thinking it's a no-brainer between the Sony, and Toshiba standard. A gigabyte is afterall, a gigabyte. The drive, unfortunately, currently costs $3,500.00 US. A bit pricey...

[themichael]

And in two years they will be US$300.....

[i-on-s]

and in 2 more yrs they will probably be outdated and have 40gb disc

[Faceman101]

I don't get it. Some guy in Korea was working on a DVD disc that can hold like 80gigs and work in all DVD players that are out now.

Can these discs do the same? It's too soon to upgrade everything.

[i-on-s]

Probably have to buy new players for the format...its DVD-R still just a different format but its too soon to tell really.

[adam]

Blue laser DVDs will not be playable in any currently manufactured DVD players, but the new blue laser players should be backwards compatible with existing DVDs. So basically you will have to buy a new dvd player, but it will then play everything.

[yg1968]

This Blu-Ray recorder announcement by Sony was discussed a few weeks back:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=146643
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=146831
http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/forum/ikonboard.cgi?s=414e3f4e0e3131f6c1b1fdc717082dcc;ac...=ST;f=3;t=5725

[energy80s]

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Don't know why this thread appeared.

[Faceman101]

Blue laser DVDs will not be playable in any currently manufactured DVD players, but the new blue laser players should be backwards compatible with existing DVDs. So basically you will have to buy a new dvd player, but it will then play everything.

VHS lasted 20 or so years and now another DVD format when DVD is about 5 years with it's peak in popularity just about within the past year.

If this is for HDTV, it probably will not catch on until HDTV fully does. We have to wait to what year again? 2005, 7? Which is it? You figure by then another format would be out, then another 2-3 untill it catches on (HD-DVD that is) fully. I guess we have time and a recording device for HDTV really will be needed. Hard to tell what will happen now, as far as this catching on so soon (or being forced onto us).

[dcsos]

We may not need two threads with this discussion....but the first post is incorrect here,the new drives don't burn DVD's they PLAY DVD's and burn the new format only.
While norelease of the drive isplanned in the uS as of yet.. The drive are hitting the shelves of computer stores in JAPAN on Thursday next week-at 3,500-us dollars.

And Sony Broadcast US just introduced 2 CAM CORDERS costing in excess of US $50,000 that record VIDEO directly to this blue laser DISC
in mpeg-2 AT 5 TIMES HIGHER RATE THAN dvd or another lower bitrate setting comparable to DVD quality.

[Donny661]

@faceman101

There already is a HD recorder out from JVC. They came up with D-VHS (digital VHS) that can record in full HD, but it is still on a tape which I am sick of messing with. Also, you can buy a few movies in this format so you can have better than DVD quality on your home theater.

[SaSi]

SONY is a big, Japanese company that is doing research. They want to feed their EGO with a "FIRST THERE". The product is only sold in Japan, their test market. And all before closing a fiscal year (my guess here, most Japanese companies close fiscal years in March 31st). All done to create and sustain the image of the pioneering company.

Don't mix showoff releases with mature techology that hits the stores. I really cannot believe this will be a mass market before 2006. The first time I've seen DVDRs at Cebit was March 2000. From 5 different manufacturers. Panasonic's solution (DVD-RAM) was already a year old. It took another 2.5~3 years before the products became viable.

Don't worry that your investment in h/w and skills and effort is going to be wasted. The companies producing h/w have more at stake to lose (they will not kill the DVD product before it takes off and pays back). Rest assured on that.

[DJRumpy]

We may not need two threads with this discussion....but the first post is incorrect here,the new drives don't burn DVD's they PLAY DVD's and burn the new format only.

Only quoting what was reported in PC Magaine. I though I had clarified that. I apologize if I didn't. I haven't verified any of the above information at Sony's, or Toshiba's web sites.

[dcsos]

It will be interesting to see the TOSHIBA 23 gig format.
While its less than the SONY, maybe if it enter the market cheaper, it won't matter. Thanks DJRumpy
and periodically check this folks:
http://www.bluray.com/

[alamski]

Well if it can fit 2 hours of HDTV footage, what about normal dvd standard, how many hours do u think will fit?

Alam

[ironwood321]

I suppose with this technology we will get 3 more formats. Several people and places saying one formats better that the other. Plus a lot of people not following the standards. And programs which don't burn correct ex-dvd's or (whatever the buzword) and people claiming the authouring burning package they use are the best thing since sliced bread.

Hmm where have I seen that before!!!

[ronnylov]

Well if it can fit 2 hours of HDTV footage, what about normal dvd standard, how many hours do u think will fit?

Alam

Normal DVD-R is 4,38 GB. If this format stores 23,5 GB then it is approximately 5 times more. The number of hours depends on the bitrate. If you put 2 hours on a DVD-R then you should be able to put 10 hours on the blue-ray disc with the same quality.

[monoxide77]

my question is this...
i'm investing quite a bit of money into certain laserdiscs movies that will more than likely will never be commercially released again in another format. i'm burning these to DVD and then i plan on reselling the laserdiscs. is reselling them a bad move? should i wait until the blu-ray technology comes along and convert these LDs to blu-ray, or will the DVDRs suffice?

[dcsos]

I say keep the laserdiscs
and watch the DVD's of them
Then sell the laser discs on EBAY whenThe blu-ray comes out..You'll get more for them later (i THINK)

RE READING THIS:
I see you really just want to know that DVD will preserve all the quality in your LD's I say YES.
Then you can come to BLUE-RAYHELP.com and we can learn how to put 2 or more LD's from DVD on on Blu-Ray? NO?

And forget what I said about the money

[DJRumpy]

I'd say keep them as well. You conversions from LD are probably via composite port. The DVD conversion is probably not as good as it could be. Their almost collectors items as is.

[burychka]

In case this is an under-30 board, Sony has been first before: The first consumer VCR was the Sony Betamax recorder, which came out around 1970. JVC was a bit later with VHS. Sony was first, and many contend that Betamax was a superior picture quality to standard VHS. Nonetheless, when was the last time you saw a Betamax VCR?

Hayes was first with high speed modems. Even the standards were known as Hayes-compatible. And where is Hayes?

Motorola had a color TV picture system before RCA's, which became the standard.

Bottom line. Being first means you were first. Being the one that is there last is better.

[kwag]

Well if it can fit 2 hours of HDTV footage, what about normal dvd standard, how many hours do u think will fit?

Alam

Normal DVD-R is 4,38 GB. If this format stores 23,5 GB then it is approximately 5 times more. The number of hours depends on the bitrate. If you put 2 hours on a DVD-R then you should be able to put 10 hours on the blue-ray disc with the same quality.

And about ~30+ hours KDVD Full D-1
It's going to be fun to put the complete StarWars and StarTrek movies on one disk at 720x480, and still have leftover space

-kwag

[soundforbjt]

In case this is an under-30 board, Sony has been first before: The first consumer VCR was the Sony Betamax recorder, which came out around 1970. JVC was a bit later with VHS. Sony was first, and many contend that Betamax was a superior picture quality to standard VHS. Nonetheless, when was the last time you saw a Betamax VCR?

Hayes was first with high speed modems. Even the standards were known as Hayes-compatible. And where is Hayes?

Motorola had a color TV picture system before RCA's, which became the standard.

Bottom line. Being first means you were first. Being the one that is there last is better.

"Nonetheless, when was the last time you saw a Betamax VCR?"

The last time I saw a Betamax VCR was in nearly every TV station in the country. They used to use 1" betamax almost exclusively for the video playback. Not sure if they still are.

[EddyH]

Beta = TV = urban myth. It's the beta style system but it's not very much like the consumer tape or machines..

Why does everything get chucked out and replaced so often these days, often by fairly similar stuff, rather than the old system of hang on to something til it's seriously no good any more, then bring in something much more distinct, new and exciting? Guess the world must be out of ideas and has to rehash to stay alive.
One thing with tape is, it started out being 30, 60, 90 minutes at best, giving a fairly nasty picture in short play and having huge, expensive, unreliable players. It's developed over the years to a quite impressive level of refinement, to the point where I can use my small (smaller than most DVD players), cheap, bombproof VCR to get 5 hours onto a shortplay tape, and have to try hard to tell the difference from broadcast TV (when the tape's new..), or with the press of a button get 10, 15 hours on that tape without much loss of quality. Adding length to a tape is simple, just stuff more length in the case (VHS had plenty spare space) and maybe make it a little thinner. Still compatible. And LP, EP is easily back compatible with SP tapes.. plus nothing gets released in LP because there's enough space on a shortplay to hold anything but the most insanely long film, so compatibility wins.

DVD has had something of a shorter development cycle, springing fullborn like Venus if you like. It's tape case was effectively already full of the thinnest usable media (as dual layer discs were already thought of at the defining of the standard) at the greatest possible quality (packing it in as tightly as a red laser allows), with LP/EP ability already installed (just lower the bitrate). The players didn't exactly start out so badly either... ("only" $2000 or so, for a fairly good one - like CD, hitting the videophile market first) it started I guess at the same level VHS reached by the late 80s.. Quite why it can't be left to run awhile, I don't know, cuz by the early 90s almost everyone I knew had a VCR, but still theres a lot of people without DVDs. Maybe that's what they're trying to do, strike while the iron's hot, get BluRay on the market before the whole world complains about changing their player... For the very best quality on a long film, it's not *quite* big enough even at standard def, even with dual layer (think about it - a 2 hour 15, top quality, 16:9 near-fullscreen feature, with the requisite MPG stream and Dolby digital in a couple languages, maybe english DTS.. it's getting hard to breathe in 10Gb, plus the data rate is only really designed for video & lower rate DD). Which is why two or even three-disc sets are so common. BluRay is a nice, convenient way of giving extra headroom for all that audio stuff, added features, and possible expansion to Hi-Def (or just running at max (and expanded) bitrate all the way through for a spotless picture). It's about the same amount bigger than the average movie DVD, as a single layer DVD is from CDR80/90... think about it

...while a lot of us sit here happily making VCDs on those CDRs