Is every DVD m2v rip from OSeX really progressive???????

[incredible]

Hi,

Until now I always choose not-interlaced input in FFmpgX when I reencode a ripped m2v stream from a DVD-9 cause I think its progressive.


BUT..... if I rip a DVD with OSEX and inspect the header with "MPEG Info X" of the most of my source DVD m2v's, it gives me this output:


Mpeg 2 Video File
Estimated Duration: 58:47.59s
Aspect ratio 16/9 (large TV)
Interlaced, chroma format: 4:2:0
Size [720 x 576] 25.00 fps 9.80 Mbps

AHA .... it tells me that this is an INTERLACED chroma format 4:2:0 !!!!


Does this mean that I also have to reencode by choosing the INTERLACED encoding in FmpegX or MMT?????


Markus

[incredible]

WOW!!!!

I just reencoded a test.m2v with MMT from an origonal PAL-DVD m2v

ppmtoy4m="-v 1 -F 25000:1000 -S 420_mpeg2 -L -I b"
mpeg2enc="-v 1 -f 8 -n p -a 3 -b 2200 -q 1 -r 16 -I 1 -s -M 1 -d"

(the bold setted strings refer to an interlaced bottom field output,"-q 1" gives me the best quantisation factor quality)

And what can I say .... I receive defenitely a better image quality with less blocky artefacts when encoding at a low bitrate like in this case with 2200 at 720x576!

[galactica]

Hi
I get similar results

here's my info on my m2v after i decode it down to SVCD setting of 2500k/sec

Mpeg 2 Video File
Estimated Duration: 51:41.47s
Aspect ratio 4/3 (TV)
Interlaced, chroma format: 4:2:0
Video Format: NTSC
Size [480 x 480] 29.97 fps 2.50 Mbps

Mine is also interlaced, chroma format : 4:2:0

Since you seem to know what your are doing, do you mind entertaining a question

I have the mpeg2 file seen above, and its audio in mp2 format.
I cant seem to get these to sync properly.

It looks like you are going to make SVCD out of your file, so what do you use for syncing and are the results good?

Ive used MMT and ffmpegx and both cant sync my movie. It says too many drops and it quits the muxing.
Thanks

[schmeg]

M2V files off DVDs are not by definition progressive... that's entirely a choice of the DVD author and how they put the video together.

As a rule of thumb, television episodes on DVD are usually interlaced, at least in NTSC-land. Big blockbuster Hollywood movies are usually transfered to DVD as progressive, but there are exceptions all over the place.

It's a good idea to look at your M2V in Quicktime or some other viewer where you can examine still frames of the video. If you can detect that the image has the telltale horizontal combing lines, it's interlaced.

[incredible]

Hi
I get similar results

here's my info on my m2v after i decode it down to SVCD setting of 2500k/sec

Mpeg 2 Video File
Estimated Duration: 51:41.47s
Aspect ratio 4/3 (TV)
Interlaced, chroma format: 4:2:0
Video Format: NTSC
Size [480 x 480] 29.97 fps 2.50 Mbps

Mine is also interlaced, chroma format : 4:2:0

Well this info you get is from your ENCODED movie! I get the "interlaced" result from the original m2v of a commercial DVD!

Since you seem to know what your are doing, do you mind entertaining a question

I have the mpeg2 file seen above, and its audio in mp2 format.
I cant seem to get these to sync properly.

It looks like you are going to make SVCD out of your file, so what do you use for syncing and are the results good?

Ive used MMT and ffmpegx and both cant sync my movie. It says too many drops and it quits the muxing.
Thanks

First, whats the source??? Do you made a SVCD from an AVI-DVIX movie?? I mean if you have a source with 23,97 FPS (NTSC-movie) then you can't just encode it as a 29,97 m2v!!!
This will cause sync problems!
In case of a 23,97 source (check it via quicktime!) you also have to set a 3:2 Pulldown flag before encoding!

How do you do this ... very easy :

Choose the same rate to encode in MMT or FFmpgX! (In this case 23,97) By doing this you leave the FPS untouched and so it will keep the movie in sync.
Now you choose "3:2 Pulldown" in "options" of FFmpgX.
If you use MMT you have to add a string at the window below where you see which strings (as shown in my first point of this topic) will be send to the mpg2enc engine. So just add a " -p" at the end of the strings in the 2nd of the two text fields (mpg2enc-field!!). This tells the mpg2enc engine to set a 3:2 Pulldown flag. It does not create a real pulldown of the movie it just sets a 3:2 flag which in your case is needed.

Now you can encode your SVCD .... which will be played at 23,97 FPS and recognised as a 29,97 Pulldown flag movie by your player


If this is your solution ... well be happy.

But if your source is 29,97 then give me more information of your system! Maybe your source is already damaged (I never had drop outs while muxing a m2v.

Markus

PS: I do not author a SVCD with the strings you see in my first topic.
If y would create an SVCD I should delete " -d" and add the string " -S 795" (this tells mpeg2enc to place a sequence boundary every 795 MB so the m2v will be splitted later correctly to fit on 80Min CD-Rs .... you also have to tell mpeg2enc with " -B 128" (if your mp2 of the movie will have a 128kbit rate) the audiobitrate which will be added to your m2v when muxing with MMT!!! These special strings will tell mplex to split your muxed movie into correct 795 chunks!!!!

I always use 128kbit as audio rate if the soundtrack contains 2 Channels, beleive me, its enough. Even when encoding the audio to AC3!

[galactica]

Wow
this is a lot of information. Im trying to understand everythign you said, so please forgive me if i am a little incorrect or miss something.

1. The source is a DVD. Well actually a DVD-R which was copied using DVD back to a dvd. The movie is Whole 9 Yards, owned by my brother who made a DVD-R of it for me. I want to make this into SVCD for two reasons 1. Practice doing the dvd to svcd and 2. so that i can play it in my 2nd bedroom which has a dvd player that supports SVCD playback.

SO, i have successfully extracted this to .m2v and .ac3 using OSeX
OSeX says its NTSC 16:9 and thats about it.

I ripped the main title and have the entire movie in .m2v and .ac3.

SO, i took this .m2v and ran it though Missing MPEG Tools mpeg2enc set for SVCD settings. The MPEG info above is for the output file of this conversion.

Next I took the .ac3 and ran it though Missing MPEG tools mp2enc set for 44.1 KHz and 224 k/sec

The info on the .mp2 is as follows
Audio : Mpeg 1 layer 2
Estimated Duration: 01:38:54.11s
224 kbps 44100 Hz
Frame size: 731 bytes
Stereo, No emphasis, copy

Thus, I try to mux these (both with Missing MPEG Tools and ffmpegx) and the results are not pretty. Probably entire scenes off.

My question is this............. you said "I mean if you have a source with 23,97 FPS (NTSC-movie) then you can't just encode it as a 29,97 m2v" I was under the assumption that NTSC movie was 29.97 and that PAL was 23.97.

Can you confirm this!! I thats the case then thats probably why my movie wont sync!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Also. what do you mean by "Well this info you get is from your ENCODED movie! I get the "interlaced" result from the original m2v of a commercial DVD!"

I do get that for the encoded movie. Notice how its at 2.5Mbps Thats my 2500k/sec encoding from the origional source which is at 7500k/sec (7.5Mbps)

[galactica]

One quick question again
Where do i add these -P and things like that
I dont see any area for me to actually be able to type in anything in MMT

maybe im not looking in the right place.

[incredible]

OSeX says its NTSC 16:9 and thats about it.

Ok, but also check the "letterbox" option in MMT! it automatically changes the vertical sice and adds Borders for correct Letterboxed 16:9 SVCD playback otherwise you will see a sqeezed movie

The info on the .mp2 is as follows
Audio : Mpeg 1 layer 2
Estimated Duration: 01:38:54.11s
224 kbps 44100 Hz
Frame size: 731 bytes
Stereo, No emphasis, copy

Your audio seems to be ok

My question is this............. you said "I mean if you have a source with 23,97 FPS (NTSC-movie) then you can't just encode it as a 29,97 m2v" I was under the assumption that NTSC movie was 29.97 and that PAL was 23.97.

NO! There exist (in case of AVI/DVD/SVCD-Ripping Business):

PAL = 25 FPS

NTSC (Video) = 29,97

NTSC (Film) = 23,97

Can you confirm this!! I thats the case then thats probably why my movie wont sync!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does OSeX when it loads your DVD exactly say? PAL or NTSC, cause if you gonna rip a PAL movie to NTSC .... Sync-Trash happens!

Also. what do you mean by "Well this info you get is from your ENCODED movie! I get the "interlaced" result from the original m2v of a commercial DVD!"

Very easy, I load a commercial DVD into OSeX ... extract it ... and inspect MPEG Info X what the header of the resuted (and not reencoded) m2v says ..... an "interlaced" original m2v!

I do get that for the encoded movie. Notice how its at 2.5Mbps Thats my 2500k/sec encoding from the origional source which is at 7500k/sec (7.5Mbps)

Don't worry your movie on the DVD gots only 7.5 Mbits PEAK factor! Cause commercial good quality DVDs are encoded using a 2-Pass m2v encoding! That means if they set the bitrate, they set for example 2000kbit minimum .... 3500 average ... and (in your case) 7500k maximum! At the beginning of the 2pass encoding process first the footage will be inspected and so the encoder gets information where in the movie are scenes with high dynamics and where not, and so these scenes will be encoded with the best or lowest bitrate between the maximum kbit setting or lowest kbitsetting .... by this its possible to reach nearly the average kbit rate so you can approx. assume the size of the resultet m2v. (I hope my english is good enough so you understand this )

[incredible]

Don't worry ... we'll find a solution!

[incredible]

One quick question again
Where do i add these -P and things like that
I dont see any area for me to actually be able to type in anything in
MMT maybe im not looking in the right place.

Watch dis:




there you can see, where to set the " -p" string (not " -P" !!! this is another function)
Also the automatic scaler and borders by choosing "letterbox"

There's also a little mistake in the line for encoding SVCDs in this picture!
after the "-S "delete "2000" and type "795"
(this will set a split marker so during muxing mplex gives you exact mpeg sizes to fit on CD-Rs)
and after the "-p " add "-B 224" (-B !!!! not -b !!! this also is needed for the split marker calculation by the mpg2enc engine as in your case 224kbit audio will be used for the mp2 audio track)

Be sure to put a space between the strings and the values like this:

... -S(space)795(space)-M(space)1(space)-p(space)-B(space)224

Markus

[galactica]

Ok, but also check the "letterbox" option in MMT! it automatically changes the vertical sice and adds Borders for correct Letterboxed 16:9 SVCD playback otherwise you will see a sqeezed movie

PAL = 25 FPS

NTSC (Video) = 29,97

NTSC (Film) = 23,97

What does OSeX when it loads your DVD exactly say? PAL or NTSC, cause if you gonna rip a PAL movie to NTSC .... Sync-Trash happens!

************OSeX says NTSC 16:9 One question. Is NTSC DVD considered film? or video. thats confusing. If its FILM and not VIDEO then tahts my problem. I encoded this using NTSC VIDEO.


Don't worry your movie on the DVD gots only 7.5 Mbits PEAK factor! Cause commercial good quality DVDs are encoded using a 2-Pass m2v encoding! That means if they set the bitrate, they set for example 2000kbit minimum .... 3500 average ... and (in your case) 7500k maximum! At the beginning of the 2pass encoding process first the footage will be inspected and so the encoder gets information where in the movie are scenes with high dynamics and where not, and so these scenes will be encoded with the best or lowest bitrate between the maximum kbit setting or lowest kbitsetting .... by this its possible to reach nearly the average kbit rate so you can approx. assume the size of the resultet m2v. (I hope my english is good enough so you understand this

************* I understand what you are saying. If it helps (and im sure i mentioned this) the dvd is a DVD-R. I get a reading of 7.5Mbps when i MPEG INFO the direct .2v rip.

Thanks for your help.
I know we will get this too.

Let me know your thoughts with the info i provided above.

[galactica]

One quick question again
Where do i add these -P and things like that
I dont see any area for me to actually be able to type in anything in
MMT maybe im not looking in the right place.

Watch dis:




there you can see, where to set the " -p" string (not " -P" !!! this is another function)
Also the automatic scaler and borders by choosing "letterbox"

Ok, perhaps my problem is i did, NTSC and pushed 29.97 and i think i put in 720 x 480 into the Wxh because when i ran ffmpegx on my first try it said the file was 16:9 720x480. Also, i didn't have letter box checked and there was (0) for all the border info.

Setting it to these settings will help with my conversion you think???

oh also, seeing this picture just reminded me. I have a G4 Dual. would clicking DUAL PROCESSOR help me with anything??

[incredible]

************OSeX says NTSC 16:9 One question. Is NTSC DVD considered film? or video. thats confusing. If its FILM and not VIDEO then tahts my problem. I encoded this using NTSC VIDEO.

Well when OSex loads the movie watch at "TI" its contents, there normally you choose the biggest track and also it gives you also the FPS information. Also look into "CH"! Watch if there are some tracks with different FPS!!! That's also causes Sync problems when ripping the TI-track (which includes all the CH tracks) at one time as a m2v!!!
If not you have to rip the different FPS CH-tracks seperately by checking and unchecking them!

Don't worry your movie on the DVD gots only 7.5 Mbits PEAK factor! Cause commercial good quality DVDs are encoded using a 2-Pass m2v encoding! That means if they set the bitrate, they set for example 2000kbit minimum .... 3500 average ... and (in your case) 7500k maximum! ...

************* I understand what you are saying. If it helps (and im sure i mentioned this) the dvd is a DVD-R. I get a reading of 7.5Mbps when i MPEG INFO the direct .2v rip.

If you did just a backup from a commercial DVD to a DVD-R for example with DVD Backup (only works if the original DVD data is under 4,3 GB!) the mpeg2 data will not be manipulated! It just copys the original data to a DVD-R .... so it doesen't matter

Ok, perhaps my problem is i did, NTSC and pushed 29.97...

watch in OSeX at TI and CH the orig. FPS!!!

... and i think i put in 720 x 480 into the Wxh because when i ran ffmpegx on my first try it said the file was 16:9 720x480.

720 width is a DVD standard and also allows anamorphed 16:9 contens! This has nothing to do with your sync problems its only a setting how it "looks" while playing using a DVD player and not if you "hear" if the audio is in sync You also can author a (X)SVCD if you got a 720x480 DVD-size mpeg2 but this normally means too much pixels per frame within the bitrate of 2500kbit, but as you read in my first topic of this thread it works very good with my settings .... ok its not 100% DVD but a good quality

If you encode a NTSC- SVCD:

-choose 480x480 (NTSC)

-choose 29,97 FPS (..... if the original has 23,97 FPS encode at 23,97 with 3:2 Pulldown flag set

-if your source is 16:9 ... choose "letterbox" in MMT so it will be played back correctly via a 4:3 TV as a letterboxed 16:9 , also you can set 4:3! and crop a range of the right and left side ... try it --- this is normally understood as PAN-Scan and some DVDplayers do this automatically if they got an option to do this.

- if you want to encode using a differrent rate than 2500kbit, choose the "XSVCD" checkbox!!! otherwise it will be encoded with 2500 even if its set to 2200!

Maybe you got a 25 Min. Movie and want to burn it on 1 CD-R.
Then the best you can do is choosing a XSVCD mode!
Check it and use 720x480 and a higher bitrate! calculate it:

795 / 25 (CD-R space/min of movie) = 31,8 MB per minute

31,8/60 = 0,53 MB/s

0,53 * 1024 = 542,72 kbyte/s

542,72 * 8 = 4341 kbit/s (video+audio!)

4341 kbit-224 kbit audio = ca. 4000kbit/s for the video encoding! nice!
But look out even XSVCD has kbit-limits so watch at this site upper left at "what is SVCD" there you can find the max kbit-value of an XSVCD.

oh also, seeing this picture just reminded me. I have a G4 Dual. would clicking DUAL PROCESSOR help me with anything??

YEAH!!!! ...... You lucky man! always use this option if encoding with a dual G4! (or set the "-M" string to "2" instead of "1"

Start rocking!

[galactica]

Thank you sooo much for this help
I have printed this entire page, well pages, and am going to test this now.
I will of coarse post back and if i have any questions.

I'll try all your suggestions and let you know what i find out.
thanks so much
-galactica

[galactica]

OK, so i decided to post my results as i go. I took the dvd-r and made a dvd backup of it to my HD, with dvdbakup. I get a total of 4.vob's which are the movie itself.

Taking the 1st .vob and using bbdeumux i get the following
1. VTS_01_1S191SS0
2. VTS_01_1S224SS0.m2v
3. VTS_01_1S189SS128.ac3
4. VTS_01_1S189SS129.ac3
5. VTS_01_1S189SS130.ac3

Info on the .m2v from the .vob is
Mpeg 2 Video File
Estimated Duration: 15:12.36s
Aspect ratio 16/9 (large TV)
Interlaced, chroma format: 4:2:0
Size [720 x 480] 29.97 fps 7.50 Mbps


Next, i took the same .vob and ran it though MMT, using SVCD settings and since moviie was 29.97 i left it as 29.97m but used all the settings you have in your picture.

Resulting mpeg is:
Mpeg 2 Video File
Estimated Duration: 16:36.63s
Aspect ratio 4/3 (TV)
Interlaced, chroma format: 4:2:0
Video Format: NTSC
Size [480 x 480] 29.97 fps 2.50 Mbps

which looks pretty good. No sound but thats what i expect. Estimated duration is pretty close to origional

now, which of the .ac3's do I use??? any idea?

[galactica]

seeing i could run the .vob through for sound, i got

Audio : Mpeg 1 layer 2
Estimated Duration: 26:44.57s
224 kbps 44100 Hz
Frame size: 731 bytes
Stereo, No emphasis, copy

the audio is 10 min longer than the video?!? is this because the video isnt really 29.97 fps???

or does .vob to .mp2 not work well (since there are 3 ,ac3 files in the extract with bbdemux)

im sutck at this point because muysing this with my video will certainely be off in sync.

any thoughts?

[incredible]

Hi Galactica,

I just inspected the test-VOB file I downloaded from your Carracho server.

1 try and it worked for me!

This is NOT a 29,97 encoded movie!!!!
Its a 23,97 encoded !!!3:2 Puldown flagged!!! movie! which will be recognised as a 29,97 movie by your DVD player and VLC application, but playback FPS are still at 23,97!

So, ... load the movie into FFmgX.
Choose the Preset for hi-Bitrate DVD 16:9.
Re-Enter the Bitrate manually using a value you calculated as I explained in this thread to fit all on a DVD or SVCD (in this case choose SVCD preset). Choose Framerate NTSC Film 23,97!!!!!!

Go to Audio, choose mp2 and 128 Kbit (44,1 Khz SVCD, 48 Khz DVD) ... audio gain 5.
Go to options, choose: Encode hi freq, GOP headers!!, Altivec and .... SET 3:2!!!!!! (In case of SVCD also choose VOB Letterbox, Bicubic scaling).

After a while you will get a muxed mpg file which will be played in sync!!!

Go ahead!

Markus

[galactica]

Thanks, ill give it a try with ffmpegx like you said

i did do the encoding with Missing Mpeg Tools at 23.97 and did get a movie file out of it, but still it woudl not sync. Perhaps Missing Mpeg Tools cant handle the 3:2 flags?

ill run it through ffmpegx and let you know

thanks for checking this out

[galactica]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so i tried the chapter and it worked (thank you soooo much)

Then i tried the entire video and it worked also (didnt loose sync at all the entire time!!!!!!!!!!)

Thank you so much

I just have two simple questions
1. How was it that you were able to obtain information on the .vob such that you could tell me its really 23,97 with 3:2 pulldown flag? and not 29.97. I understand why now it always says 29.97, but how were you able to get the specs of the actual video?

2. I used your settings you had in the post for ffmpegx
i noticed that QT encode is clicked under the presets of high motion dvd. I unchecked it because it was not mentioned in your reply.
Would leaving it checked make a difference in video quality!?

thanks again
Galactica