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  1. Member rkr1958's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pcworld
    Is Microsoft trying to thwart DVD-ripping on PCs using Windows Vista with the new beta of Vista Service Pack 1?

    As I tested the public beta release of Vista SP1, I noticed the update crippled a popular DVD cracking program called DVD43.

    DVD43 is a free utility that disables a DVD's Content Scramble System (CSS) copy protection technology. Once a DVD's copy protection is disabled, you can copy its content using one of several third-party programs. You may be using DVD43 and not realize it, because it often is the engine of other ripping programs.

    When I updated my Windows Vista operating system with the beta of Vista SP1, DVD43 wouldn't load. Instead, I saw an error message about a missing driver--even after I uninstalled and then reinstalled DVD43. A colleague of mine had a similar experience on a PC that also had been updated with the latest beta release of Vista SP1.

    Stripping DVD copy protection (CSS) from a DVD is illegal but many people do it.

    I've made formal requests for comment from Microsoft and the company behind DVD43. So far, I've heard nothing back. I'll let you know what either say, if and when they reply.

    Intentional?

    It's hard to say whether Microsoft is intentionally disabling DVD43. Certainly the software giant doesn't mention anything about DVD copying in its documentation for the beta of Vista SP1. But given Microsoft's interest in making friendly with Hollywood movie studios, it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft intentionally disabled a popular and free tool that aids in ripping DVDs.

    DVD43--and programs like it--have long been a thorn in the side for Hollywood, as DVD-ripping is one of the first steps in cracking and distributing copyright-protected movies online.

    Despite the Motion Picture Association of America's efforts to crack down on DVD-ripping and despite U.S. copyright laws that make it illegal, sales of software that bypass DVD copy protection continue online and at retail stores.

    Many of these DVD programs have been, and still are, sold by major retailers. However, when purchased, some of the programs can't copy DVDs equipped with copy protection. You must use an Internet search engine to find and download a program, such as DVD43, that empowers your DVD copy program to duplicate the contents of any CSS-protected DVD.

    It's my experience in reporting past stories on DVD-ripping that many DVD-ripping programs recommend DVD43 to their customers. DVD43.com, a Web site that lists download sites for DVD43 as well as the DVD-ripping packages it works with, is owned by a company based in Beijing, China, according to Internet domain registration records.

    In further tests, I did find that at least one other popular DVD utility, AnyDVD, which promises to "unprotect encrypted movie DVDs," did work with the beta of Vista SP1 installed--as its product description asserts. However, this is not free software: It will cost you 49 Euros, or about $72.

    At least for now, it appears that casual DVD rippers will be stymied if they choose to update their Vista PCs with the Vista SP1 beta--and that those who want SP1 and copies of their Hollywood DVDs will have to pay up to keep ripping.
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  2. Doesn't sound like it.

    This is a rather long article that doesn't really say much beyond:

    I installed Vista SP1 beta.
    My freeware DVD43 wouldn't load properly because of a missing driver.
    Therefore, MS are crippling DVD ripping.
    Though my non-freeware AnyDVD worked just fine.

    Suggests to me that the freeware DVD43 makes incorrect assumptions about the availability of system files. When an app fails to load at startup it is usually because it is relying on a system dll such as the Visual C Run Time (msvcrt) and it isn't there. That's poor programming practice on the part of the software vendor, not MS.

    Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist.
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  3. Member rkr1958's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    Doesn't sound like it.

    ....

    Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist.
    Let's hope so and that this is not the start of something more sinister on the part of Microsoft.
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  4. Member oldandinthe way's Avatar
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    Thank you JohnnyMalaria

    Programs which rely on undocumented features of the O/S will eventually fail. Whether someone deliberately caused the failure is irrelevant.

    And by the way, users report mixed results with this program on XP - see the tools section.
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    More often then not-you get what you pay for.
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria

    Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist.
    That may well be the case. But from a broader perspective, it's important to present a vigilant message to Microsoft that "we are watching you". They need to know that whenever they attempt to pull something, we are going to shine the bright light of day on it. Microsoft has been pushed back before when they have attempted to slip things into their OS's. To put it another way, every blip on the radar isn't an incoming enemy aircraft but you don't turn the radar off just because the most recent "blip" turned out to be a false alarm. Microsoft is fully capable of horrific acts of "slime" and the bright floodlights of media and public scrutiny need to be shining in their eyes 24/7/365.
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  7. Member bendixG15's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SCDVD
    ...................... it's important to present a vigilant message to Microsoft that "we are watching you". They need to know that whenever they attempt to pull something, we are going to shine the bright light of day on it.
    You got to be kidding, MS worries that "we are watching" ???

    Oh, I'm sure MS monitors our feelings....... They have no feelings,
    they are Microsoft. Its all about Power and Money.

    Time to move on ..............
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  8. Member Grain's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bendixG15
    Originally Posted by SCDVD
    ...................... it's important to present a vigilant message to Microsoft that "we are watching you". They need to know that whenever they attempt to pull something, we are going to shine the bright light of day on it.
    You got to be kidding, MS worries that "we are watching" ???

    Oh, I'm sure MS monitors our feelings....... They have no feelings,
    they are Microsoft. Its all about Power and Money.

    Time to move on ..............
    I didn't see any mention at all of MS being worried in SCDVD's post? He made a good point that MS needs to know that they are being watched. Ultimately, they require feedback if they wish to improve a product, be that in a way we want or not. Now they may know that they have defeated DVD43 . Whether they care or not is irrelevant.
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  9. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    I just love the paranoia. A program that's flakey at best doesn't run correctly on one installation of an OS that has proven to be difficult for poorly written software, and the loonies scream 'big brother'. To top it off, this is on a beta release, not even a final version of SP1.

    Henny Penny - the sky isn't really falling.
    Read my blog here.
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  10. Member Conquest10's Avatar
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    I would think that MS doesn't really care about DVD ripping and would actually prefer that it kept going on so they can push their DRM out even more as a solution.
    His name was MackemX

    What kind of a man are you? The guy is unconscious in a coma and you don't have the guts to kiss his girlfriend?
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    guns1inger, I'm not talking "paranoia", "big brothers" or "falling skies". As I said, "from a broader perspective" it is important to watch Microsoft. They have pulled back in the past when there was an outcry from consumers with respect to unsavory product "features". A flaky piece of software that doesn't run properly isn't a concern to me nor does it have anything to do with the point that I am making. But an unbridled Microsoft is not in the consumers' interest. This has nothing to do with anyone being loony or your pal Henny Penny.
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist.
    Er ... a grain of salt, anyone ? Johnny historically has a pro-MS position... regardless, he's usually got good info.
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  13. Originally Posted by halsboss
    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist.
    Er ... a grain of salt, anyone ? Johnny historically has a pro-MS position... regardless, he's usually got good info.
    No, he has a neutral position. He is telling you things from a software engineering standpoint. That does not equal pro -Microsoft. He often gives very good information that pertains to the question.
    Believing yourself to be secure only takes one cracker to dispel your belief.
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  14. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    Apparently anyone who doesn't jump on the anti-microsoft or anti-sony bandwagon must be pro, and therefore not to be trusted. It's a beta version of Vista SP1, DVD43 is a flaky piece of code even on a solid install of XP, and one incident of anything doesn't prove anything other than DVD43 didn't work for a reporter at PC World or his friend (not a big surprise).

    Now if Linux and Apple were treated to the same scrutiny and hope for failure as Microsoft, it would be a different story.
    Read my blog here.
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    Originally Posted by Dv8ted2
    No, he has a neutral position. He is telling you things from a software engineering standpoint. That does not equal pro -Microsoft.
    So am I, bud. Johnny's info is as good or as bad as anyoe else's (refer skeptic site stuff below, they have a term for using personal background/status as credibility substitute in a line of argument).
    Originally Posted by Dv8ted2
    He often gives very good information that pertains to the question.
    Yes, I said that too.

    Originally Posted by guns1inger
    Apparently anyone who doesn't jump on the anti-microsoft or anti-sony bandwagon must be pro, and therefore not to be trusted.
    Visited the Skeptics website the other day and there's a term they use for that type of non-logic... go look it up if you're interested, under top 20 something or others.
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    As for me, I like and use a number of Microsoft products including Vista. There is a lot to be acknowledged and admired about Microsoft. With that said, there is nothing conflictive when I say that they also need to be watched. Without some constraining influence, any company with as much size and influence as Microsoft has can sometimes try to reach in directions they ought not to. An important influence is a strong outcry when they attempt to move in a direction that is conflictive with the interests of their customers. There are some interesting reports in this web page about some things Microsoft pulled in the past http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/dirtytricks.shtml I can like and use some of Microsoft's products but I also realize they can't be allowed to be unconstrained.
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    I agree, Mcirosoft have produced some great products ... however that doesn't necessarily make all of their directors and employees ethical nor consumer-interested at heart. Always follow the money trail, especially in the U$,
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  18. Originally Posted by SCDVD
    As for me, I like and use a number of Microsoft products including Vista. There is a lot to be acknowledged and admired about Microsoft. With that said, there is nothing conflictive when I say that they also need to be watched. Without some constraining influence, any company with as much size and influence as Microsoft has can sometimes try to reach in directions they ought not to. An important influence is a strong outcry when they attempt to move in a direction that is conflictive with the interests of their customers. There are some interesting reports in this web page about some things Microsoft pulled in the past http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/dirtytricks.shtml I can like and use some of Microsoft's products but I also realize they can't be allowed to be unconstrained.
    I couldn't agree more. Sadly, it is relevant to any other where money and power can be abused (other business sectors, politics etc).

    In this specific case, though, it really is a mountain out of a mole hill. Now, when SP1 is released and all of a sudden many ripping apps stop working and the vendors (not end users) determine that the cause is a deliberate change to the OS, then that's the time to be heard.

    BTW, Bill sends his regards.
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    MS has a track record of new operating systems that will run its products, but not competing ones. WordPerfect has been ambushed by Bill three times since I have owned it, forcing me to run Wordperfect 6.0 or 8.0 on Win98SE, 8.0 with a hacked patch or 11.0 on Win2K, 12.0 on XP, which just by accident doesn't run on VISTA.

    Rippers are my least concern. A quick tally at home of good and essential software and hardware, less than 2 years old that is not supported by VISTA, totals over $1500.00. Rebuying hardware every three years and being on a continuos annual software upgrade path because of Bill, is dam good for the vendors. But I have had enough of it.

    Hanging with XP till their is a new OS that benefits me rather than Bill and his partners.
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  20. Re Wordperfect, I don't think MS are wholly at fault. Just a read of this makes in abundantly clear how fubar'd Wordperfect has been w.r.t. Windows compatibility:

    http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/oldwpwin.html

    I mean, three different 32-bit versions of WP7. Wordperfect was a great DOS-based application and ruled the roost (except in scientific circles where T3 was a dominant player) but its transition to the Windows world has always been poorly executed.

    The fact that WP12 doesn't work on Vista is simply that Vista is a major new version of Windows (6.0) and it is inevitable that some applications will not work especially those that make implicit and wrong assumptions about the OS. MS actually provide developers with tools to help figure all these incompatibilities. They are very clear in spelling out which functions of one version of Windows may not be supported in future ones or which ones will be deprecated.

    You will no doubt know that Wordperfect Office X3 is works on Vista - as the logo on this page shows:

    http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1151523326841

    Though, quite frankly, you can merely fart and get that logo. Certified for Vista is a different story.

    So, why not put pressure on Corel to release updates for earlier versions? I doubt they will oblige - they want you to buy a newer version.

    From Win95 to Vista, I've had to accept the inevitable and upgrade the software. Sometimes, I have refused and changed to a different vendor. This is usually when a new version of Windows comes out, a vendor releases a newer version of their software because the existing one won't work and they won't provide a free (or discounted) upgrade. Roxio will never, ever, ever see another penny of mine.

    BTW, what <2yr old hardware and software do you have that isn't compatible? My hardware is less than 2 years old and have no problems at all, nor with my software.
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  21. What's a "Microsoft"? Never heard of 'em.

    R
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  22. I mean, three different 32-bit versions of WP7.
    Did you read the WordPerfect article? A and B were for Windows 95 and version C was for NT or NT enabled Windows. When Corel/WP made updates to existing software they often used letter increments. How many different version of Windows 95 did Microsoft have!

    Microsoft NEVER played well with WordPerfect. Microsoft held out providing technical Specs for it's Word Doc format, thus preventing WordPerfect from providing a translator for such documents. That meant WordPerfect would not be able to read Word docs. Microsoft NEVER supported WordPerfect beyond WP 5/6. Microsoft's solution for reading WP documents in Word was to have you use WP to save the document in a format Word supported. Brilliant.

    You blame the transition from DOS to Windows on WP. I'd blame it on Microsoft's inability to write a stable GUI based OS. It's not surprising DOS worked well, they did not write it. WP 7 was a fine GUI application, which was improved with WP 8.

    I have no issue with the need to upgrade to a new application because of a new OS. That's understandable. I do have a gripe when a SERVICE PACK forces you to purchase a new application when the exisiting application is rated to work on that OS. XP SP2 force alot of people to purchase software that worked under XP SP1. That's the fault of the OS manufacturer not the software vender. If the OS changes the rules in the middle of the game you CANNOT BLAME the software vender.

    So,

    XP -> Vista: Application Developer's problem.
    Vista -> Vista SP1: Microsoft's problem.
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  23. My god, a Wordperfect fanboi. Tres unique.
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  24. Member oldandinthe way's Avatar
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    Word Perfect has suffered from bad decisions through multiple owners.

    Word Perfect for Dos was a product which filled an important need in its market. It was the implementation of the Wang Word Processor on the PC, It allowed corporations to replace thier dedicated Wang Word Processors with cheaper general purpose PC hardware. It performed well in this context and was a marketing success.

    When Microsoft introduced Windows, Word Perfect and Lotus, the spreadsheet leader, felt that it would not catch on and they would retain their dominant position in a DOS- based universe.

    Needless to say, Windows did catch on, Microsoft developed its own word processor and spreadsheet for the Windows enviornment, and the development and sales head start they had was never overcome.

    I can vouch from personal experience that Word Perfect told its dealers "Windows -NEVER!!!"

    PS their Windows product was no longer a Wang clone and therefore did not command any loyalty from the installed base. By the time it was stable all of the corporate buyers had committed to Word.

    Microsoft didn't have to take any underhanded steps to destroy the product. Bad management, a demoralized staff, and multiple sales of the product line accomplished that.
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  25. Originally Posted by RLT69
    XP -> Vista: Application Developer's problem.
    Vista -> Vista SP1: Microsoft's problem.
    Wrong.

    In both cases, it is the consumer that ends up with a problem. Developers *know* that service packs are part of the Windows landscape (they're called something else in Appleland and create similar issues). The developers have the tools and up-front notice of changes. Developers can represent their concerns to MS through a variety of channels. Developers can verify the impact of SP changes on their products and issue upgrades. Some developers take the opportunity to scalp more money from the customers.

    I'm a developer. I have no sympathy for the line of WP custodians.
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    It's all about perspective isn't it.

    If you buy a real application product without intending to change it, and then the o/s manufacturer breaks it for you as a part of their WITHIN-PRODUCT changes ...

    Nah, not the developer's fault. Maybe the application developer isn't even around any more - however the CUSTOMER can validly have an expectation that someone else (read Microsoft) will not break it for them and cost them money.

    It's about customer focus, and the real-world approach is self-evident.
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  27. Microsoft...power? Money? I don't believe it. Say it ain't so, Joe!

    Originally Posted by Grain
    Originally Posted by bendixG15
    Originally Posted by SCDVD
    ...................... it's important to present a vigilant message to Microsoft that "we are watching you". They need to know that whenever they attempt to pull something, we are going to shine the bright light of day on it.
    You got to be kidding, MS worries that "we are watching" ???

    Oh, I'm sure MS monitors our feelings....... They have no feelings,
    they are Microsoft. Its all about Power and Money.

    Time to move on ..............
    I didn't see any mention at all of MS being worried in SCDVD's post? He made a good point that MS needs to know that they are being watched. Ultimately, they require feedback if they wish to improve a product, be that in a way we want or not. Now they may know that they have defeated DVD43 . Whether they care or not is irrelevant.
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  28. Originally Posted by halsboss
    If you buy a real application product without intending to change it, and then the o/s manufacturer breaks it for you as a part of their WITHIN-PRODUCT changes ....
    If you have a system that works perfectly for your needs and changes to the OS will break it, you have the choice to not "fix" the OS... If it ain't broke...

    ...and if the application breaks because the developers used API functions that the OS supplier explicity warns should not be assumed to be present in new SPs or major releases then bad developer. In fact, the OS supplier will deliberately not fix some bugs because to do so would break so many applications. The original 2GB file size limit on AVIs is a classic example.

    MS certainly create havoc with some SP changes. Some software vendors have bad habits. MS shouldn't be expect to help the likes of Corel get WP working properly when WP has made bad decisions. MS do help some vendors - a recent example being Apple. Apple couldn't program their way out of a paper tape reader to get iTunes and Quicktime for Vista. MS provided Apple dedicated engineering support (on-site, I believe). Hmmm. Perhaps Apple will *finally* have a decent Windows incarnation of QT. Lord knows, until now Apple have crippled the Windows version in a multitude of ways that makes the WP whinging seem like a playground spat.
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    If you have a system that works perfectly for your needs and changes to the OS will break it, you have the choice to not "fix" the OS... If it ain't broke...
    Like your reasoning but don't happen to agree with it ... security updates and all that.

    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    ...and if the application breaks because the developers used API functions that the OS supplier explicity warns should not be assumed to be present in new SPs or major releases then bad developer. In fact, the OS supplier will deliberately not fix some bugs because to do so would break so many applications. The original 2GB file size limit on AVIs is a classic example.
    Can't argue with that, although one would hope that that it's only that type of thing which MS breaks. Is it ?

    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    Apple couldn't program their way out of a paper tape reader to get iTunes and Quicktime for Vista. MS provided Apple dedicated engineering support (on-site, I believe). Hmmm.
    I reckon that's a "mates job" for Bill's buddy. Didn't MS invest in Apple, also ? Whatever the reason, good call on the customers' behalf. Sad commentary on the IT industry though, that's it's so hard to program nowadays.
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