Good DVD Recorder for 16x9 HD copies from SA 8300HD

[rba46]

Hey guys, I know this is probably a somewhat common request, but I'm wondering what the best US based DVD recorder for 16x9 HDTV copies is. I know I can't get high def copies, but my issue is that I want to be able to record things to my Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD in high definition and then if I choose to archive it, have a DVD recorder that can record the HD from the 8300HD in anamorphic mode (I can change the SA to output 480i or 480i widescreen etc...). I want a recorder that will do this somewhat easily, but I don't mind adding the anamorphic flag via computer since I will likely be editing these on computer either way. Anyway, I want the final DVDs to work on pretty much any setup. Also, I would like to purchase something in the US (preferably a brick and mortar store). Don't know if any additional info is needed, but feel free to request it. Hope this is enough to get some opinions.

Thanks,

Ryan

[guns1inger]

My Pioneer 540H has no problems with 16:9 material. I record from an SD DVR in 16:9 and it records and flags the 16:9 material correctly. You might want to look at a more expensive model if you want better than s-video input though.

[rba46]

Anbody got any suggestions for something that has better than s-video inputs (i'm assuming component). I'm not sure if it matters since the output from my PVR will have to be 480i either way.

Thanks,

Ryan

[rba46]

All right. I've figured out that my problem most likely is with the cable box itself. The SA 8300HD apparently only outputs letterboxed format for widescreen HD channels when you use the composite or s-video output even if you change to 480i output on the cable box. I've been searching around for a component to s-video converter and am hoping to find out if this device I found will potentially work. It's an apple tv converter box with info that can be read here: http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html

Anyway, anybody care to take a stab at whether or not it will work? I don't mind paying the 130 bucks for it, but I'd hate to get it over the net and find out that it won't work.

Thanks,

Ryan

[next]

I have the component to svideo converter from the site you mention. It does what it claims to do. You will be able to take the component video output of your SA8300HD and convert it to svideo for input into a DVD recorder with svideo input. Your setting on the SA8300HD must be set at 480i. The image is full screen.

[rba46]

I am basically wanting to know if this appletv box will allow me to record an anamorphic dvd via a dvd recorder that will record 16x9 content. I don't care if the widescreen flag is transmitted, etc... I don't want a letter boxed copy of the original widescreen video. I can already do this and the quality sucks when I crop the top and bottom black bars off. Another option is to get an older dvd recorder that has component inputs. There is a polaroid that I'm looking at but if anyone knows of any other good dvd recorders that have component in and are more readily available to buy at a B&M store then I am interested. This would be especially true if I could pass through a high def signal while the unit is off. The polaroid does this, but as I understand it, the refurbs that are readily available might not be able to do this depending on the serial number/firmware.

Thanks,

Ryan

[Krispy Kritter]

As the current recorders only record SD anyway, there isn't much point in making a big fuss about connectivity methods. While component is higher quality than S-Video, there shouldn't be a noticable differnce on SD material at 480i.

I would concentrate on finding hardware that can properly accept and record 16:9 content as that is your primary focus.

[next]

Yes and no.

I do see a bit of improvement in PQ when using component for recording but that is not the reason for using component input/outputs. The reason is that many STBs being used as the source for the video cannot send a full wide screen 16x9 image via svideo or composite outputs. Artificial letterboxing is introduced. So full screen 16x9 recording (480i) is not possible. Unless you either have a DVD recorder with component inputs or you some how come up with a way to convert the component output of the STB to svideo or composite - thus using the svideo or composite inputs of your DVD recorder.

Some STBs will output full widescreen 16x9 via svideo or composite outputs. Then there is not a problem. I believe the SA8300HD was mentioned as the STB. If the SA8300HD is running Passport software then the SA8300HD is only capable of full widescreen 16x9 via component output. Using svideo or composite the image will look like this. Notice the grey bars. They were introduced by the SA8300HD. Not by the DVD recorder. There's no way to setup the SA8300HD to avoid them. Also notice how the image id squeezed top to bottom. Everybody looks short and fat. Not good.



When using component out of the SA8300HD the recorded image looks like this. No grey bars. And notice how the image is in its proper perspective. Everything looks as it should:


When using an HD source even at 480i for recording to an SD DVD recorder the PQ is outstanding. Best I have even seen. But this is a result of the high quality of the source image. Not so much whether it is component or svideo.

Sorry for the crummy pics but I think they get the point accross.

[rba46]

Thanks for the input guys. I've already ordered two of the polaroid dvd recorders with the component in option. Krispy Kritter pointed out the lack of difference between S-video and I'd gladly take any recorder that would do s-video 16x9 if my STB would provide this as an option. As next said though, the 8300HD I have will only provide the widescreen signal without artificially introduced top and bottom black bars for letter boxing via the component outputs. Anyway, we'll see about picture quality when the units arrive. From my past experience even recording HDTV via the s-video output of my 8300HD and then cropping off the artificial letterboxing seems to produce a fairly good picture quality given all the manipulation that has to occur. However, the extra time associated with cropping the artificial letterboxing and the reduced picture quality don't make it worth this and so I have so far been recording both the HD and SD versions of things via the STB and then only recording to DVD via SD. I'm pretty sure I'll get better quality by switching to HD source and even if I don't I'll be much more happy with the widescreen version. I'm mainly interested in recording sports events that are shown in HD so I really think the polaroid is the best answer at this point.

What really irks me is the fact that the electronics companies are not offering this feature anymore. Is this the motion picture/tv industry forcing the issue or is this simply the companies not wanting to provide this technology. I guess I can see where they'd run into problems with many mainstream consumers possibly thinking they could record true HD signals via the component inputs, but why not at least make this an option with the proper disclaimers. The fact that the polaroid unit will pass through the HD signal when off is almost reason enough for me to purchase a unit like this since I can set it up in a kind of old fashioned way like vcrs used to be hooked up. Why should I have to have a completely different cabling setup and remote macro just to switch into record mode? Even though DVRs are probably enough for many people, archiving is something that many will always want the option of, and even with eSATA drives available, this still doesn't allow the flexability that consumers deserve when time shifting. When will the studios learn that they will have to offer more than remakes of the original episode/game for a pretty hefty price in order to satisfy consumers that buy television shows and games reproduced on DVDs?

Anyway, sorry about the rant there. Just seems that I've been waiting for a decent solution to archiving stuff via digital television since it first came out. Hopefully the polaroids will work for me. I've posted in the other thread I started on this that I'd love to see inputs and outputs as searchables in the dvd recorder list. I do think this would help people decide on a solution for recording from an HD source until HD recorders (of any variety) are more available and cheap enough to actually justify for the casual user.

Thanks for all the help,

Ryan

[Plarocks]

Wow, I am having the same problem now that I have switched from Direct TV to Fios.
The Motorola Fios set top boxes are plauged with the same problem as the Digital Cable boxes.

Fios was a better deal and I get more channels, but now I can't record the HD channels in Anamorphic Widescreen as they are ONLY output in letterbox through the S-VHS out. The box will NOT change to 16:9 "Vertical Stretch" screen through the S-VHS out like with my Direct TV HD box.

Really annoying.

Right now I have been recording the HD shows I want on the hard drive that I want to archive. However, now I need to either get that converter box or a new DVD Recorder with a "Component Input" before the damn thing fills up.

These boxes really should be set up so that you can choose.

I even tried that "Hidden" screen that comes up if you unplug and plug back in and just hit "Menu" before turning it on. It does NOTHING to the S-VHS out.

Well, figure I can give the Apple TV box a try. The only other downconverter I could find was over $400!!!
That's just way too much money for me right now.

I hope I can find a DVD Recorder with a "Component Input" for less than that.

If anyone has any other solutions to this problem, I am all ears.

Plarocks

[LCSHG]

Is it being said that a broadcast even though transmitted in 16x9 (1:78), that certain equipment will only allow a recording of a program in 16x9, if the DVD recorder has a component input so as to record properly otherwise it will be shrunk and distorted?
In the picture with the bars on top and bottom it looks as a 1:85 but as said, the picture is out of proportion
If so it could be a cause considerable confusion with many users

I have used satellite service for a number of years and it would seem a recording is made in the format transmitted whatever the aspect ratio, with any connection.

I do have a question on aspect ratio but it should be on another thread

[Plarocks]

Where can you find a DVD Recorder with a Component Video Input?

I have looked and can not even find one model?

I need to find one that can handle a 720p or 1080i image throught the component video input.

That is the only way my FIOS box will display the "Anamorphic" Widescreen image without the bars.

Peter (Plarocks)

[Plarocks]

After about 2 years of not being able to record in anamorphic onto my DVD recorder from the Fios QIP6416-2 box, I finally figured out a way to do it.

After searching for any information about these three products, I could not find anybody that used them:

http://www.atlona.com/ATLONA-PC-HD-DOWN-CONVERTER-p-17169.html

http://www.svideo.com/videoscaler.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-Component-To-Composite-Video-S-Video-Down-Converter_W0QQitemZ12...item1c0c20b663

So that said, I tried a few things.

First up, I purchased a JVC HM-DH40000U D-VHS VCR. This unit did NOT work properly for me. While I would get the correct anamorphic screen when connecting to the Fios box through the firewire port, the sound would constantly drop out, and the picture would lock up on the Hi Definition channels.

When I tried to playback a Hi-Def show I recorded on the Fios box, the results were disastrous. Picture and sound just froze, and I saw nothing but random colored pixels.

For VHS playback, I found it was not necessarily a better player than my 9911. (The picture was different. It had less of the "bleeding red" than the 9911, but not better than the 9911 with my Voodoo TBC box)

So I sent it back.

I then purchased two DVD recorders that had built in Digital tuners, one from Best Buy, one from Wal-Mart. I hooked both of these units from the Fios box through firewire. The Wal Mart unit acknowledged that I was putting a signal into it, but could not recognize it. The Best Buy unit that was over $200 dollars did not ever register that I was putting a signal into it.

Took them both back and figure I had to save my pennies for a $400 downconverter in order to do what I could do for free, when I was hooked up to DirecTV. And even then, I did not know if any of the above choices did the downconversion well or not.

I then purchased a JVC HM-DT100 D-VHS deck, originally as backup for my 9911 unit. I figured that the 9911 is not going to last forever, so I suspected this unit will give at least as good as a picture. So I picked it up for $250, originally for that purpose.

Once I received it, I decided to hook it up to the Fios box through firewire to see what the downconversion would look like. In the menu, I set output 2 to "All to 480I"... and VOILA! Nice looking anamorphic downconversion right out of both S-VHS terminals.



I can take this signal and record an anamorphic DVD with my old Pioneer DVR-7000.

In addition, I can pop in a D-VHS tape and even record and playback shows in High Definition!

Not a perfect machine, but one that definitely works for me.

Sometimes this unit would have audio dropouts from time to time, kind of like what the 4000U did, but at least the picture would not go out. When that starts happening, I unplug the machine and then plug it back in 20 seconds later. That corrects the problem for a while.

Also, when trying to dump some of my D-VHS tapes to Anamorphic DVD-R, I did get the "Stop Copy" message on the DVD recorder that I was able to correct when I hooked up the Voodoo BVTBC(8). The Voodoo sometimes displays some very light diagonal lines that show up in the darkest of scenes, but this is better than not being able to copy it at all. I just use it when I have to. The Palladia channel has the stop copy tone on there sometimes, so I find I have to use it. But, I can record Palladia and HBO to D-VHS tape in Hi-Definition with no problems!

So there is my two year plus journey in figuring out how to record my Hi-Def channels onto Anamorphic Widescreen DVD with my old Pioneer DVD Recorder.

If anyone else found another work around, please post what you did here.

Peter