Video speed on VHS tape vs video speed on PC recording

[funkydude74]

Hi all. I notice when capturing video on PC the playback video speed is different to the playback on a normal VHS tape in a normal VCR. When it comes to recording studio clips that are done with studio video cameras on computer from a VHS tape the playback on computer makes it look like a movie film recording instead of a studio camera recording, in other words the animation looks slower just like watching a movie even recordig at 25 frames/sec!!!!!!!!!!

Why is this so????????????? And is there ANY video capture cards that can capture at FULL video speed matching that of VHS???????????? Or are there no cards capable of doing that?????

Basically I want to record old 70's band performances from pop shows like Top Of The Pops, Countdown, Soul Train, American Band Stand etc... on PC in PROPER video speed and whack some groovy video effects in them and output them back to VHS tape and want the video speed to be unchanged i.e. I want the edited video to look like a studio camera recording, not like a 35mm movie film camera recording.

Well the card I'm using is a Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti 4200 video card/capture card.

If anyone could help me out, I'd be most greatful.

Cheers

Troy

[El Bart0]

I'm not 100% certain, but I know exactly the effect you're talking about. It's due to the resolution and refresh rate difference between a monitor and a TV. I've captured VHS to the computer via DV (VCR Output -> Digital8 Camera -> Firewire) and it looked different on the computer than it did the TV, but when I output it back to the TV it looked like the original.

[funkydude74]

Hi. Thanks for the reply. For me there's just one problem, I'm not sure how to output video straight to TV without going to the Nvidia settings in "Display" in "Control Panel". What I do to output video is go to "Control Panel", "Display", "Settings", "Advanced", "GeForce4 "Ti 4200", "nView Display Mode", and set the mode to "Standard (DualView)" and go to "Device Settings" and set the output to "TV". Then that sets the screen output to TV via VCR. The I have to go to "Windows Media Player" to play the recorded videos on PC and full screen the picture, and viewing it on TV it doesn't fill the entire TV screen as the outputed picture only fills so much of the screen top, bottom, left and right. And what's worse the speed of the playback even on TV mode is the same as on PC which is like a movie film recording instead of a videotape recording. How can I output video straight to the VCR to view on TV at normal video speed filling the WHOLE screen???

If you can help me I'd be MOST greatful.

Cheers

Troy

[Triffid]

I guess I'm a bit confused about your problem, because I don't find any difference betwen what goes in and what comes out on my system.

What would be really great is if you could give a little more detail:

Source: I assume is is PAL VHS

Capture settings: I hope it is 25fps, 704 (or 720)x576 (ie full frame)

Capture driver: are you using the Nvidia wdm driver (which revision) or some other driver...and does it know that you are working with PAL (might have to check the registry to find this out)

Capture program: VirtualDub, ULEAD, Premier, ........


My guess is that either you are only capturing half frame (and therefore some of those animations and only updating every 1/25th of a second instead of every 1/50th of a second, or you are somehow stuck in NTSC mode somewhere and you are getting the timing totally messed up.

Hope this helps, or that when you post the answers above that I can make more suggestions.

OI OI OI!!!

[funkydude74]

Hi Mr Triffid.

The input source is RCA video from my PAL VHS

The program I use to record is "Ulead Video Studio 6 SE Basic" and the record setting is PAL DV AVI which the setting of that preset is:
PAL (25 fps)
Field order A
Microsoft AVI files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- PAL, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

BUT when I'm in capture mode I go to "Options", "Video Format", I can't get a setting of 720 x 576 in the list, the closest one is 720 x 480, so I record at 640 x 480.

Now the capture driver I use is Nvidia WDM Video Capture (Universal) and the video card I've recently upgraded to a 128MB Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4200.

Now I just wonder seeing the setting above says "field order A", I wonder if it has anything to do with the "half frame problem".

Anyhow this video speed problem is not the only problem I'm having, I'm also having a white saturation problem when capturing video too which when recording scenes with really bright backgrounds I'm getting saturation on the highlights which whitewash the picture and in the video proc amp half the picture settings such as "gamma", "backlight" etc.. are blotted out which means I cannot adjust them to filter out the highlight saturation problems. If you know of a solution to fixing this problem, please email me at ac_dc_rocks_1998@yahoo.com as I'm DESPERATELY trying to find out how to fix it and getting absolutely nowhere . I need to get this problem fixed soon because my uncle has a mate who wants some wedding videos put on video CD and is going to pay me good money for it so I need to do a good job. If you or anyone can help me I'd be most greatful. I know I posted this earlier and someone linked me to a google messageboard about this topic, well the programs they suggested to download require ASUS video card and mine is a Nvidia.

Anyhow thanks.

Cheers

Troy

[Triffid]

I thing it is the NTSC (640x 480) resolution that is probably causing the problem. But there could be other things too.

Go here: http://www.dynapel.com/com/private/index.htm

and download their free Videoscope program. Then analyze a (small) captured file. Chech to make sure thet all the frames are OK and that the frame rate is right (I'm still a bit worried that the nVidia capture driver thinks you are using NTSC). I have an ASUS card, and the version of the nVidia wdm drivers they ship have the video standard set to NTSC instead of AUTO. You can look in the Nvcap.inf file to check this. (If so, edit the bit that says NTSC so that it says PAL, save the file and reinstall the drivers...if you installing from a .exe file, you may need to open it inwinzip and extract all the filles to disk first, then do the edit and then install by running the setup.exe file)

But, regardless of all that, you should either be capturing at 288 lines (PAL half frame) or 576 line (PAL full frame). Anything else is guaranteed to make a mess of your video.


Got to go now, will check back later.

[Triffid]

I had a look at what happens when capturing with ULEAD products. (I use virtualdub, but I have used several ULEAD products before, and always found them not-quite-right for PAL capture). I have DVD workshop 1.2 installed on my Win2k system with nVidia wdm 1.08 drivers, so I gave capturing a go (set up looked that same as for video studio, so I guess it is similar to media studio too)

What I found was this:

in the video format I can only set 720x480 (just like you said)

However: in the Capture settings: Capture properties: Video capture pin I set 25 fps 720x576, and amazingly, according to Videoscope the captured video is 720x576 (although the other settings in DVD workshop remained at 29.97 and 720x480).

I did have a small problem with the capture rate. I was getting 24.76 fps....but I haven't tried to make this work properly under DVD workshop before, so there is probably some other problem there.

So, if you haven't already tried it, make sure that the capture pin settings are right (and ignore everything else) and you should get full frame resolution.

One thing I did notice was missing (at least in my set up) was the ability to add compression (eg MJPEG or HUFFYUV). This alone would make me give up on capturing this way (not to mention that you can't really get a feel for how the capture is going when all you have it total frame and dropped frames reported.

If you can't get things working right (and for my money, even if you can) it could be worth giving virtualdub a go.