Warez & Cracks

[housepig]

That's corruption of terms. Hacking has been equated with cracking and warez distribution, when it's original context was non-malicious exploration and tweaking of hardware and software.


So if I donwnload a trial version of Photoshop and Hack it so it's not a trial version that's ok... as long as I don't crack it. Those word can all be grouped together.

No, you would be *cracking* it, not *hacking* it. There *is* a difference, or was before people started corrupting the terms. I guess it depends on where you get your definitions... I see a distinct difference in "hacking", as in "non malicious exploration and modifying of code and hardware", as opposed to "cracking", which is "modifying registration or activation portions of software to avoid having to pay for software".

If you HACKED Photoshop, you would be doing something to the code to permit you to use the software in a new way, like finding a way to save in an unsupported format for example. The only thing that CRACKING adds to or enables in the software is the ability to use it without paying for it.

It is malicious, your (anybody) intent is to be able to buy a cheap reigon X dvd and play it on your hacked player. That's working beyond the rules at the loss of others

At who's loss? If there is a film that is unavailable in the United States, but is available in the UK, and I pay for a copy from the UK, and I pay to have it shipped here, and I've paid for my player, who loses? The manufacturer and distributor in the United States WHO DON'T EXIST?

As for "working beyond the rules"... let me see your rule book. Again, you are confusing what Sony (MGM, Universal, etc) wants with matters of law.

It's there (the reigon code). Someone put it there for a reason. I was speculating who put it there.

Uhhh, not exactly. Read your own post. You were claiming that it was illegal to circumvent the region code... that's a little bit more than "speculation".

- housepig

[ChrisX]

I am from Australia and I am trying to get “an early released” film on DVD and this one isn't available commercially here. The solution, get it from the States, Region 1.

In the US, it is available there and not here in Australia. I will have to order it online and who is going to stop me with this stupid region coding?

I don’t care what Hollywood thinks!

[SaSi]

That's assuming that copying your DVD is legal in the first place (which in the UK it isn't!). It's just the same with audio CD's. If you buy a CD for home use and want a cassette copy to use in your car, then legally you MUST buy another copy. All this "backing up" business is only relevant to computer software, not to audio visual material.

You are (partly) wrong about copying. There is a (not so new) EU legislation that provides for copyright protection and the right of the consumer to make copies for their own needs. The legislation discusses issues like:
Photocopying a book (or encyclopaedia) for reference,
Making copies of music, data or video
etc.
This legislation demands that all manufacturers or importers of :
Photocopy paper
optical disks with capacities > 100Mb
Tapes
Devices that use these consumables (but are not components used in PCs - and this includes standalone recorders, photocopiers and excludes PCs and PC-CD/DVD Recorder units)
PAY A Percentage of the product value to the international intellectual right agency against the intellectual rights of the copyrighted material produced internationally.
The consumer has the right to make as many copies as they require FOR THEIR PERSONAL USE. The consumer is not allowed to sell, broadcast or circulate what they have copied. It's only for their personal use.

This directive is mandatory for all EU countries. While paying an amount (if I remember correctly it's like 3-5% of the material cost) to the IFPI for IR re-distribution may sound bad, it's not really. It simply simplifies and ratifies a practice that is established.

For example.

Why would you buy a Cassette recorder? Are all the people buying cassete recorders producing original material?
Why would you buy a VCR? Are you producing original material?

On the other hand, obtaining a copy of a s/w product (either via warez or legaly through the s/w company ftp site) and a password to use it (illegaly), or obtaining a cracked copy of a s/w product, is Illegal. The law is broken where someone cracked a program AND IS RE-DISTRIUTING it, or where someone made a BACKUP COPY of their licence key (serial) AND IS RE-DISTRIBUTING it. And the person USING these cracked copies and serials are acting as RECEIPIENTS of illegal/stolen material. It's the same like I steal something and sell/give to you. If you can have reasonable doubt regarding the legality of what I'm giving you, then you are accessory to crime. If I give you my DVD player for $50, you can't imagine whether I've stolen it. If I give you a truckload of unused, boxed DVD Players for $50 each, then you must start to suspect. Equally, If I give you the serial number to use a s/w product, then you MUST doubt whether I have the right to do so.

Law is not stupid and it appears that the lawmakers, perhaps only in EU and Australia though, have begun to think rationally. The CSS issue has been ruled differently. In USA it was, at least originally, considered cracking it to be illegal. In other countries, the use of CSS was considered illegal and against the right to freedom of distribution and use of information.

To conclude: We all know that certain copyright issues are still in the grey area. However, several aren't. It's not acceptable to use arguments related to gray issues so that one can ratify (to one side or the other) issues that are well established.

Just my thoughts and interpretation of legislation.

[ChrisX]

That's assuming that copying your DVD is legal in the first place (which in the UK it isn't!). It's just the same with audio CD's. If you buy a CD for home use and want a cassette copy to use in your car, then legally you MUST buy another copy. All this "backing up" business is only relevant to computer software, not to audio visual material.

You are (partly) wrong about copying. There is a (not so new) EU legislation that provides for copyright protection and the right of the consumer to make copies for their own needs. The legislation discusses issues like:
Photocopying a book (or encyclopaedia) for reference,
Making copies of music, data or video
etc.
This legislation demands that all manufacturers or importers of :
Photocopy paper
optical disks with capacities > 100Mb
Tapes
Devices that use these consumables (but are not components used in PCs - and this includes standalone recorders, photocopiers and excludes PCs and PC-CD/DVD Recorder units)
PAY A Percentage of the product value to the international intellectual right agency against the intellectual rights of the copyrighted material produced internationally.
The consumer has the right to make as many copies as they require FOR THEIR PERSONAL USE. The consumer is not allowed to sell, broadcast or circulate what they have copied. It's only for their personal use.

This directive is mandatory for all EU countries. While paying an amount (if I remember correctly it's like 3-5% of the material cost) to the IFPI for IR re-distribution may sound bad, it's not really. It simply simplifies and ratifies a practice that is established.

For example.

Why would you buy a Cassette recorder? Are all the people buying cassete recorders producing original material?
Why would you buy a VCR? Are you producing original material?

On the other hand, obtaining a copy of a s/w product (either via warez or legaly through the s/w company ftp site) and a password to use it (illegaly), or obtaining a cracked copy of a s/w product, is Illegal. The law is broken where someone cracked a program AND IS RE-DISTRIUTING it, or where someone made a BACKUP COPY of their licence key (serial) AND IS RE-DISTRIBUTING it. And the person USING these cracked copies and serials are acting as RECEIPIENTS of illegal/stolen material. It's the same like I steal something and sell/give to you. If you can have reasonable doubt regarding the legality of what I'm giving you, then you are accessory to crime. If I give you my DVD player for $50, you can't imagine whether I've stolen it. If I give you a truckload of unused, boxed DVD Players for $50 each, then you must start to suspect. Equally, If I give you the serial number to use a s/w product, then you MUST doubt whether I have the right to do so.

Law is not stupid and it appears that the lawmakers, perhaps only in EU and Australia though, have begun to think rationally. The CSS issue has been ruled differently. In USA it was, at least originally, considered cracking it to be illegal. In other countries, the use of CSS was considered illegal and against the right to freedom of distribution and use of information.

To conclude: We all know that certain copyright issues are still in the grey area. However, several aren't. It's not acceptable to use arguments related to gray issues so that one can ratify (to one side or the other) issues that are well established.

Just my thoughts and interpretation of legislation.

Yes, your are right on backing up your own movies, music, computer software and so on. It doesn't matter to what format, DVD-R, DVD-RW, VHS, CD-R CD-RW and even into a computer hard drive. As long someone owns the original copy and this isn't illegal and is covered by the fair use legislation.

[LanEvo7]

So if I donwnload a trial version of Photoshop and Hack it so it's not a trial version that's ok... as long as I don't crack it.

Legally, its not ok. If you read carefully when you install photoshop, there is a license agreement the says something along the lines of you cannot modify this software in anyway. So you analogy is irrelevent.

There is no law that says you can't make your dvd player region free nor is there something similar to a licensing agreement that says you can't modify you DVD player. The closest thing to it is(in America) that it has to comply with FCC standards.

[fmctm1sw]

I asked this a long time ago. Here's the response I got.....

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124844&highlight=

[rhegedus]

I'm sure that this has been pointed out:

A crack facilitates the full use of a product for which you have not paid (unless you use a crack to bypass the CD-check for your own legally purchased software). This is theft.

A hack is a method of allowing your legally purchased DVD player to use DVD's from another region. There is no theft involved.

Regards,

Rob

[davewave]

There is also an issue of pricing here, DVDs in the UK are a lot more expensive than most other countries, I buy region 1 DVDs from Canada, even including postage they are still cheaper than the UK.

[bugster]

I think it's also odd that you use the word loophole. Knowing full well that you have found a way around the rules to do something you know you are not supposed to do. If you were... you would not use the term (loophole).

Yet, here you are discussing it.

rules, thats the key word here. Region coding of DVD players and DVD movies is done according to a set of rules decided by the DVD forum on the insistence of the big movie studios and distribution companies. It is not LAW and therfore bypassing these restrictions for your own personal use cannot be illegal!

[vitualis]

HACK, CRACK and WAREZ are just words. It is what you actually MEAN that counts.

If you think "WAREZ" is some funky new word for "CLOTHES" you could discuss it all you want in thos forum (though you will look like a dork).

When people talk about software WAREZ and CRACKS, they usually refer to gaining access to software they have not got a license to (i.e., they didn't pay for it). In almost all circumstances, this is theft of intellectual property and is not tolerated on this forum.

Hardware "hacks" is usually referred to in this forum as modifications to your hardware player. This is NOT ILLEGAL and is in no way immoral. The only harm this does is it may void your manufacturers warranty.

Changing the region code is in no way a nefarious activity. The region code is simply an artifical construct to restrict distribution of video worldwide. In some countries the coding system has in fact been ruled illegal/anti-competitive device (New Zealand) and in fact, all DVD players in that country are region free. In Australia, I don't think that this has actually been ruled illegal, so many region 4 only players are still on sale. However, some manufacturers have lifted their game and started setting region free players.

To suggest that changing the region code is illegal is identical to suggesting purchacing a DVD player/DVD disc from a region other than my home region is illegal. It is obviously not so.

BTW, @ CGJS:

As far as I am aware selling a Region 1 DVD in a store is illegal in Australia

Actually, selling Region 1 DVDs are NOT illegal. Many large stores sell foreign DVDs. It is only illegal to sell non-region 4 discs if it is not clearly marked and identified as a non-Region 4 disc and that it may not work in domestic DVD players.

Regards.

[ChrisX]

BTW, @ CGJS:

As far as I am aware selling a Region 1 DVD in a store is illegal in Australia

Actually, selling Region 1 DVDs are NOT illegal. Many large stores sell foreign DVDs. It is only illegal to sell non-region 4 discs if it is not clearly marked and identified as a non-Region 4 disc and that it may not work in domestic DVD players.

Regards.

I would like to think it isn't illegal to sell Region 1 DVD's in Australia and can you explain why a electronics store in George St, Sydney selling American Region 1 DVD's was raided and prosecuted by the detectives of Australian Film & Video Security Office. They were selling films in DVD when still showing in the cinema. This store is now selling only Australian DVD's. This happened two years ago.

I think your should check the facts, is it legal or illegal? I tend to think it is still illegal, anyway I don't care. It is good to know I can still buy them near my home or order them from USA.

[pacmania_2001]

I would like to think it isn't illegal to sell Region 1 DVD's in Australia and can you explain why a electronics store in George St, Sydney selling American Region 1 DVD's was raided and prosecuted by the detectives of Australian Film & Video Security Office. They were selling films in DVD when still showing in the cinema. This store is now selling only Australian DVD's. This happened two years ago.

I think your should check the facts, is it legal or illegal? I tend to think it is still illegal, anyway I don't care. It is good to know I can still buy them near my home or order them from USA.

It isn't illegal to sell Region 1 (or any other region for that matter). Take a look on Ebay Australia and their are multiple Region 1 DVD's for sale.

As many of the above posters said region coding is not law. The shop was probably raided for selling bootlegged copies of DVDs that were still out in cinemas.

[ChrisX]

I would like to think it isn't illegal to sell Region 1 DVD's in Australia and can you explain why a electronics store in George St, Sydney selling American Region 1 DVD's was raided and prosecuted by the detectives of Australian Film & Video Security Office. They were selling films in DVD when still showing in the cinema. This store is now selling only Australian DVD's. This happened two years ago.

I think your should check the facts, is it legal or illegal? I tend to think it is still illegal, anyway I don't care. It is good to know I can still buy them near my home or order them from USA.

It isn't illegal to sell Region 1 (or any other region for that matter). Take a look on Ebay Australia and their are multiple Region 1 DVD's for sale.

As many of the above posters said region coding is not law. The shop was probably raided for selling bootlegged copies of DVDs that were still out in cinemas.

It doesn't matter as I said, " I don't care" and I am not going to investigate whether this is illegal or not. I can still buy region 1 DVD's anyway.

[vitualis]

It is definitely not illegal. Even many large stores (such as HMV, etc.) sell non-region 4 DVDs. I tend to agree with pacmania. If the store was raided, it was probably because it was selling bootleg DVDs.

Luckily the law in Australia is still mostly sane...

Regards.

[Marco33]

While thunbing through my sony manual. Under the heading "Region Code" it says...


Your player has a region code printed on the back of the player and will only play dvd's labeled with identical region codes. This sytem is used to PROTECT COPYRIGHTS.

So if I hack my player I'm infringing on copyrights.

Again, NOT saying I agree with it.

[vitualis]

Region coding is not used to protect copyrights. Sony is just being Sony.

The only "copyright" protection that exists is the law.

If Sony actually means "copy" protection, region coding doesn't do that either. There two forms of "copy" protection on a DVD system is (i) CSS encoding which is designed to prevent DIGITAL copying of the video data and (ii) Macrovision which is designed to prevent ANALOGUE copying of the video data.

Neither work particularly well.

Region coding is designed for the following purposes:
(i) so that the motion picture industry can STAGGER the release of particular films (because the original film release is usually staggered and they don't want DVD versions being released before the film version comes out)
(ii) so that they can artificially fix the prices in different regions

Now, point (i) is nefarious but you can't really complain. However, point (ii) can be (and has been) argued to be illegal in a number of countries.

Regards.

[TurboRunner]

There is also an issue of pricing here, DVDs in the UK are a lot more expensive than most other countries, I buy region 1 DVDs from Canada, even including postage they are still cheaper than the UK.

Well obvious the movie industry, importers, and retailer is not loosing out from people buying from other countries or they would wake up and charge the consumer the same price as it would cost you to buy a legitimate copy from overseas and get it shipped to you then you would buy it from your own country and they should also release all movies to dvd that are release to dvd in other countries also.

They only have that region coding so they can atleast get those who do not know how to hack the region code(or buy a region free dvd player) or cant be bothered importing with their ripoff prices.
So maybe if everybody in the countries with overpriced dvds imports their legitimate dvds then maybe they will adjust their prices so that there wouldn't be a reason for the consumer to import.

Just me 2 cents 8)

[ChrisX]

It is definitely not illegal. Even many large stores (such as HMV, etc.) sell non-region 4 DVDs. I tend to agree with pacmania. If the store was raided, it was probably because it was selling bootleg DVDs.

Luckily the law in Australia is still mostly sane...

Regards.

Most non-region 4 DVDs in Australia is a usually multi-region disc, a few would sell Region 1 DVDs especially in 2nd hand stores.

The shop I was referring to is at George St, Sydney was selling real new released American DVDs and certainly not bootleg movies. They were imported directly from the US and some movies took a long time to be released in the cinema. This was the case for some years until 2 years ago when they stopped selling the LDs and DVDs from America.

The store is a reputable retailer and still trading near Chinatown of Sydney. I have no problem with them. I buy imported DVDs elsewhere and online now.

I agree the region coding isn’t the issue here in Australia and copyright is really the issue and the releasing times of films in certain countries.

In Australia, the multi-region DVD player isn't illegal and certainly not illegal for me to order and purchase directly from the US. It isn't illegal to import region 1 DVDs and certainly not illegal to own one.

Even though region coding of DVDs is illegal in Australia, selling US DVDs here is illegal. Region 1 DVDs are supposed to be for sale in the US and Canada only. I don't want a war over this.