How the heck do you use CCE?

[jowel13]

Hello,

Sorry to admit but I am a newbie to CCE. TMPEG is pretty self explanatory, but CCE seems very confusing. After I load my .avi in CCE, I go to "edit" to set the MPEG settings. It then makes 3 files, .mpv, .vaf, .mpa. Right after I press encode it gets done. The files are made, but they are 0 in bytes.

Also, when I try to change it to 2 pass VBR settings (MPEG-2 Elementary Stream, Multipass VBR) it says "could not open file movie.vaf, The system cannot find the file specified."

Can anybody help a newbie in need. I really want to use CCE over TMPEG because I hear it's a lot faster and better in encoding quality. Are there any simple guides out there to lead me through the first couple of steps? Also, does anybody have the link for MainConcept's Encoder? Is it just as simple as TMPEG or even worse than CCE?

Please Help!

-Joe

[Dragonsf]

what version are you using?

[jowel13]

2.64.01.02

Help!

[Poplar]

CCE is not newbie-friendly. Its GUI is so simplified that one can't help to think: is this thing really that good? Only after some frustrating trial and error, I got the hang of it. I think this experience wasn't uncommon. Some advice:
1. Use SP 2.50 or 2.66, which support Avisynth/Vdub frameserving. You might need some patch to disable CRC check for 2.50. Find it at Doom9 website.
2. Always encode elementary streams.
3. Don't encode your audio with CCE.
4. Read User's Manual that comes with it. It is very useful and informative.

Here is MainConcept MPEG Encoder:

http://www.mainconcept.jp/archive/MpegEncoder.exe

It is watermark protected, of course.

[jowel13]

Thanks for the reply.

Any other help (from anybody else) would be greatly appreciated.

How much faster is CCE or Mainconcept than TMPEG?

[Vejita-sama]

There are several CCE guides at http://www.doom9.org As for how much faster CCE is than TMPGenc, it depends in the setings and source. But in my hands encoded MPEG2 video with CCE is ~4x faster than TMPGenc.

A general rule of thumb seems to be that a CBR encode in TMPGenc takes the same time as a 3pass VBR encode in CCE (which is actually 4 passes).

[txpharoah]

Using true DVD-compliant settings, TMPGenc is fastest, followed by CCE, then MainConcept.

MainConcept seems to have the best quality (as does Cleaner 5 or 6), but is slow as molasses. I still use it anyway. When needed and quality counts.

TMPGenc is easy to use, fast, and lots of features. It can add block noise, but it has a filter to blur that back out.

CCE is hard to use, not the fastest, and adds noise (often described as mosquito noise). It has no filters to remove it.

Try them all. See what YOU find best. Too many answers on these forums. Also, everybody uses them for different reasons: VCD, SVCD, XVCD, SXVCD, streaming video, DVD, etc.

What do you want to do? Source? Output? Usage?

[flaninacupboard]

i don't see how you have TMPGenc as faster than CCE? in my experience, what would be a 30 hour 2-pass encode in TMPGenc is an 18 hour 2-pass encode in CCE. with my XP2000+ system CCE encodes DVD faster than real time. my only guess is you are talking about using TMPGenc in motion search settings lower than "High Quality" which i personally wouldn't reccomend. as for the "mosquito noise" (i know it's quoted in the CCE manual, but doesn't mean i like the term!) if you adjust the image complexity slider, you can kill it. for inputs with high noise, such as captured images, you need it set fairly high, say 45 or so, and the type of image has an effect also. if a film is set in the arctic, the desert on the ocean, or anywhere with large areas of the same colour, then a high setting is required, if it's set in space, then a low setting, of say 15 is required, to make sure starfields show up nicely. it's just a case of knowing what you're doing....
Jowel13, have a go with CCE, if you need help on a specific item or setting, let us know.

[IvIark]

I don't think Mainconcept is slow at all.

Comparison:

CCE 2.50 - 3 pass VBR
TMPGEnc - 2 pass VBR
Mainconcept (MC) - 1 pass VBR

I have recently done LOTR: TTT and wanted to use CCE which was my encoder of choice, but it crashed out after the first pass for some reason with a checksum error. I decided to try TMPGEnc instead, saw the estimated time and aborted the process straight away! Having previously heard good things about MC I decided to give that a try instead. It only does one pass and so it is much faster than TMPGEnc 2 pass VBR or my usual 3 pass CCE. After 4.5 hours with MC I was left with a really excellent quality MPEG2 and this was with line filtering enabled and the motion search set to the highest quality level.

I would normally be very dubious about a single pass, but the results speak for themselves and I really don't think CCE or TMPGEnc will be used by me again. When MC V1.4 comes out that allows multiple passes I think it will easily surpass everything.

I did a bicubic resize and then frameserved with VirtualDub for all the attempts listed and my PC is a P4 1.8 with 256MB RAM.

[jowel13]

Hi,

I tried MainConcept but the encoding seemed to be even blurrier than TMPEG at the same settings (2900 2-Pass VBR, 1000 min 3500 max). Is MainConcept supposed to be clearer with encodes than TMPEG? It is MUCH faster, but the quality suffers... What are some good settings to use with MainConcept?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

-Joe

P.S. - Or if someone can give me a SIMPLE run around with CCE or paste a guide for newbies it would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

[flaninacupboard]

jowel13, the saying RTFM springs to mind.
while the manul is perhaps confusing because of the terminoligies, it is worth reading. it really is easy to use! ok, i'll try and teach you all you need to know in one paragraph.
Open CCE. right click in the empty window, click add and find your AVI file. once added to the window, double click to get the encoding settings. You can set the output of the .MPV file and the .MPA file if you want CCE to do the sound (most people don't, so turn it off) and the .vaf file. CCE needs to write a .VAF file if you want to do more than one pass. So, change from CBR to multi VBR, 2 or 3 pass. set you min avg and max. may as well set the min to 500 and the max to 9500, whatver your AVG. Clcik the Video button, click the DVD compliant box, choose the aspect ratio (4:3 for captures, 16:9 for most DVD rips, Frameserved Divx is also 4:3) play with the quality settings at a later date, for a slightly faster encode, turn the noise reduction off. ok it, click encode. that's all there is to it.
and check the link to doom9, i've never been or used their guides, but their name springs up a lot, so i imagine it's good stuff.

[eatin sammiches for lunch]

Using true DVD-compliant settings, TMPGenc is fastest, followed by CCE, then MainConcept.

MainConcept seems to have the best quality (as does Cleaner 5 or 6), but is slow as molasses. I still use it anyway. When needed and quality counts.

TMPGenc is easy to use, fast, and lots of features. It can add block noise, but it has a filter to blur that back out.

CCE is hard to use, not the fastest, and adds noise (often described as mosquito noise). It has no filters to remove it.

Try them all. See what YOU find best. Too many answers on these forums. Also, everybody uses them for different reasons: VCD, SVCD, XVCD, SXVCD, streaming video, DVD, etc.

What do you want to do? Source? Output? Usage?

I think u know not what u say!

when u say CCE is as fast as Tmpg you are probably comparing a 3 pass CCE encode to a 1 pass CQ tmpg encode

[jowel13]

flaninacupboard:

There is no "video" button. Where can I find it?

Also, it says cannot set *.vaf file still....

Didn't include any sound too.

[txpharoah]

Using (Automatic VBR_CQ) mode looks better than 2-pass VBR on TMPGenc and as good as any CCE encode. The "high quality" mode on motion estimation has nothing to do with quality, it refers to the search, and the setting should really be renamed "Search Complexity" or something. I'd suggest "lowest/fastest" or "estimate/fast" as the best motion quality.

There are so many settings to consider for quality, not just bitrate, mode of bitrate, or the motion estimation. You must look at the matrix, the GOPs, and others.

MainConcept can be blurry compared to other encoders.

Once again, it's your settings that determine everything. CCE does come setup best for speed, but tweaking TMPGenc and MainConcept can give you good, fast results, just as good and as fast as CCE or sometimes even better. I don't just use the settings that the manufacturer put it on as default. It's a program: use it. And use it for how YOU need it, not how somebody THOUGHT you would need it.

Read the program manuals (you'd have them if you bought it), guides online, and experiment with 30-second test files.

[adam]

Mainconcept is indeed a very fast encoder, even faster than CCE but TMPGenc is far slower than either of these two encoders. CCE is about twice as fast as TMPGenc at comparable settings and MainConcept just beats them both out.

Simply put, txpharoah you are doing something wrong if these are your speed results.

Also, the motion search has everything to do with quality. All mpeg encoding is, is analyzing a source as a bunch of blocks. The encoder compares one block with its neighbors in that frame, and with its neighbors in past and future frames. The motion search precision sets how rigorously the encoder searches these other blocks. A low setting means that the encoder doesnt pick up on as much redundancy in the pictures and this results in far greater inefficiency.

Make two encodes in TMPGenc, both with identical settings except with one on high quality motion search and one on lowest quality. The difference in quality and smoothness of motion should be obvious.