Howto make svcd's with subs

[dynalink_user]

Can anyone tell me howto do this using VCDeasy?
Example:
1.>I made a .MPG file (MPEG2) with TmpgEnc.
2.>I use VCDEASY to make the SVCD with chapters and all that.

how do I create selectable subs?
What kind of files do I need?

[adam]

Before you bother with this check the DVD player compatibliy chart to your left and ensure that your dvd player even supports soft encoded subs in a SVCD, because most don't.

If your source is a DVD then use subrip to rip all the subtitles to Philips SVCD Designer format. You will get a .sub file, which is just a txt file, and a whole bunch of .bmps. You will have to open the .sub file in any text editor and remove the header info...just the text at the top. Basically you want it to start immediately with your chapter times.

You can then mux the subtitles into your mpg program stream using WinSubMux. Note that it lets you use either the SVCD style subs or CVD style subs. Different styles work better on different players and it appears that CVD style is more widely supported.

If your source is divx, xvid etc... and you have downloaded the separate subtitles for it then you need to use MaestroSBT to convert to WinSubMux format and then use WinSubMux to mux.

Once the subtitles are muxed into the mpg just use VCDEasy as normal to author.

[nolli]

Hi adam,

i am absolutely sure, that you never have tried this by your own.
In theory you are right, but your guide will not work if you also want to have selectable chapters. If PBC is on, you will not see any subtitles. And it does not matter if cvd- or real svcd-subtitles are used.

[dynalink_user]

So the first thing won't work?
What will?
I just want selectable subs.
My dvd player supports it.
I know because I borrowed this Svcd with selectable suubs and I could select em.
What if I will not generate chapters?
Will it work then?

If I have generated an Mpeg2 file with TMPGENC.
Can I just put subtitles in them using winSubmux?
What files do I need?

[sterno]

However, most players have a variety of bugs related to subtitles. The most common one is that SVCD-style subs only work without PBC while CVD-style subs work with or without PBC. My player also seems to have problems if the video bitrate goes too high, even if it's just a brief spike (common with VBR encoding, I have to lower the max. bitrate to get good results). I've heard that some players only accept both subs and PBC if the data is arranged in a particular way on the disc - so some SVCDs will work and some won't, depending on exactly what authoring tool and settings were used.

If your player properly supports SVCD and/or CVD subtitles adam's instructions will work fine, and some firmware bugs are easy to work around just by using CVD instead of SVCD or something like that. You'll probably just have to experiment a little to see what does and doesn't work for your player.

[adam]

Hi adam,

i am absolutely sure, that you never have tried this by your own.
In theory you are right, but your guide will not work if you also want to have selectable chapters. If PBC is on, you will not see any subtitles. And it does not matter if cvd- or real svcd-subtitles are used.

Well I'd be happy to show you my collection of subbed SVCDs, all authored exactly as I described, with full chapters and menu's from the original DVD. I have posted regarding the bug you mentioned several times in other threads. I do think that this is something that VCDImager is doing incorrectly, since it seems to not be as prevalent when authoring with Nero, but as Sterno suggested it is still highly dependant on your player. SVCD subtitle support just plain stinks. Don't misconstrue a bug of your player, or even most players, as being universal. Believe me, the methods I stated are the very ones that I use successfully all the time.

[nolli]

Hi Adam,

I have the following phenomenon:

The Demo-SVCD from Vcdimager SVCD contains 2 selectable Subtitles as well as two selectable audio-streams and selectable chapters.
Everything works fine on my dvdplayer (and the other players i have tested)
After Ripping this SVCD and Re-authoring with Vcdeasy (including vcdimager 7.12), no more subtitles are visible in all DVD-Players i have tested. But this is only if the the svcd was authored including chapters and PBC-support. It works if it was authored without chapters. It also works if the cd was burnerd with nero, but thats this is not relevant, because nero does not have real authoring functionality and does not support chapters.
Theres is the same Problem with nearly any other tested authorting software. After authoring and burning f.a. with Ulead-software there are no more subtitles, even the second audio-stream is lost (althoug there was no reencoding of the mpeg)
I have now worked for several weeks, trying to integrate "selectable" subtitles with pbc and after all i have given up, because it seems to be impossible. I tested the svcds on several dvd-players, with always the same result.

[dynalink_user]

selectable Audiostreams???
How do I do that?

[adam]

I had no problems getting VCDEasy authored subbed SVCDS, with PBC, to play on my old Apex. My current dvd player's svcd subtitle support is so poor that I wouldn't even bother with them, and I have moved onto DVD burning now anyway. Sorry, this is a bug which I never encountered personally and which I have no real answer for except to suggest
I-Author which is very expensive, very outdated, and very difficult to find.

dynalink_user: SVCDs support either 2 stereo, 1 stereo and 2 mono, or 4 mono tracks. Just encode your video and audio tracks separately.

If you want only want two audio tracks, either stereo or mono, then use bbmpeg to multiplex. It has an option for a 2nd audio track input. If you need anymore than two audio tracks then you will have to use TMPGenc. Just use the multiplex option (not simple multiplex) and keep adding all your streams.

During playback you can toggle between the different streams by using the Audio button on most dvd player remotes. If your player doesn't have this option you will have to go into the player's main menu and change to the desired track.

I always included the director's commentary track on my SVCDs. Its just a guy talking into a mic so mono at about 60kbits sounds fine to my ears.

[crystalclear]

My email doesn't work, so I'll just post this here and HOPE it finds the author of VCDEASY. Good software and thanks for it. I am out of cash but promise here to pay for my copy when Antonov shares hit £1.20! I have had no job for 2 years, hope you understand.

I want to comment on subtitles, but let me get these comments done first!

COMMENTS REFERING TO v1.1.5b10
------------------------------

Install doesn't associate DSV data files with application VCDEasy.
Once associated, clicking on DSV file causes VCDEasy to start, but without project loaded.

Program creates files I have not requested, in directories I may have wanted to keep clean, or which could have been read only! eg 0.mpg.vxm

Scan offsets "Do you want to add this file anyway?" Little annoying, maybe a yes-to-all reply would be an alternative.


Trying to reload a videocd.dsv project by dragging and dropping it in the list of picture files caused the list to go blank until VCDEasy restarted.



VCD Easy Anylze File: English grammar! Should this be "Analysis File"?

Program aborts if an MPEG file has been modified: I really wanted to save and restore projects so I could correct small errors in MPEG files and recreate the videoCD.
It leaves all files up to the aborted file.

Initially I thought "save" was not implemented, only "save as". Only after putting some ISO files on disk, did SAVE appear!


Tried to add huge (2GB directory) to ISOfiles on CD using drag and drop. Red warning appeared. "Approximate ISO File System size: 2047.90 MB" Selected Directory, pressed delete, numbers counted down, went negative, and then dialog box appeared: title VCDEasy, White X on Red circle, "Integer Overflow.", OK button!


Shouldn't warn about setting scan-offsets option if it is set!
On a 2 screen computer, dialog boxes can straddle screens; would be nice if stayed on same screen as application or cursor.
Mpegs dragged and dropped in middle of a list are still added at the end.

[Gargoyle]

Take a look at this thread to see my problems with subtitles:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=112211&highlight=

[crystalclear]

Right, back to subtitles.
Most people here seem to be enthusiasts - I guess you have to be.
I am not, I'm just trying to get something done.
Its a private project so ther is no huge budget. I have a CD writer so I'm going for SVCD, and most people have DVD players or at least access to one, so that is what I am hoping it will play on.

My SVCD is for French and Dutch friends. And my sound card is not great, so I'm thinking of subtitles. Also, I don't speak Dutch, but I guess I can get a volounteer to translate some text for the subtitles.

From starting with no knowledge, I have learnt a bit by trial and error.

1. I need to create subttle text and synch it to my film.
SUBCREATOR seems to do this okay.

2. I need to create bitmap files.
MAESTROSBT seems to do this.

3. The subtitles need to be mixed into the MPEG stream.
I am trying WINSUBMUX.
I have no idea whether this is working.
The program allows 4 subtitle streams to be written.
I am trying two streams one CVD and one SVCD to hedge my bets and try to get something to work. I read that somebody put both formats on one CD and players could play one type or the other with the odd good player being able to switch between them.

4. I need to create the SVCD image
VCDEasy has worked for video and audio and I'm trying to stick with that.
The audio and video plays back, so most of VCDEasy seems to work.
It mentions subs as it runs so it might be working okay, who knows.

5. I need to put the image on a disk.
CDRWIN does the job fine.
VCDEasy has problems with Adaptec's software for an IDE CD writer.
Otherwise I would write it with VCDEasy.
I think this program should have no knowledge of subtitles and cannot be the cause of a problem if the video plays.

6. I need to play back the film with subtitles.
I have a Thomson DVD player. Its good. It plays DVD, SVCD, etc MP3, Photo CDs, re-writable disks (thank god), etc. I can see subtitles on DVDs and choose the language I want. And though mine is not on the list at all, the other Thomson DVD players all seem to be able to do SVCD subtitles.

PROBLEM
--------

I play the disk and I get sound and video only.

Now, I don't even see how it is supposed to work. A menu in the DVD player allows me to select a subtitle language, eg English, French, German, .... On the other hand, the SVCD I create has upto 4 streams of subtitles, 1,2,3,4. For it to even have a chance of working in a normal situation, something on the SVCD must know whether 1=French, 2=German, 3=English, or whatever the real arrangement is.

Another way things could work is via menus on the disc. I guess this is what you guys are calling PBC (play back control). Maybe somehow I could put a menu on the disc with instructions that if somebody selects a picture where I mark GERMAN then tell the DVD player that it needs to play subtitle stream 2.

From what I can see, subtitles not only do not work, but they have no chance of working without me getting involved in something I currently know nothing about. And that is on top of the complexities of having the wrong settings for PAL/NTSC or frame rate, or image size, or goodness knows what else just once in the whole set up could spoil the whole thing.

Given that I am generating my own pictures with a raytracing program (POVRAY), animating them, doing my own music (Dance 4 CD from a packet of Netle cereal), I am begining to wonder if I will ever get a finished SVCD. Plus my hard drive was stolen and my backup was a bit old!

It is easy to say these things work, when just stealing video from a commercial DVD. All the work has already been done by somebody else. The information is there for the taking.

But is there anybody around that has been through some of these problems with subtitles and has come out a winner, or is round about at the same state as me and wants to work together a bit. Considering the number of tools around and the number of file formats, it is quite posible that one simple combination works fine, but knowing which is the real key?

How can I look at a SVCD and check whether subtitles are there?
How do I map the subtitle streams to languages?
How do I select the language with menus on the screen like it works with the commercial DVDs, or is it a case of just pressing a button on the remote to step through languages on a SVCD as a previous poster implied, and if so, why should it be different.

The problem with people that get it right is that they have trouble understanding the problems of those that get it wrong.

This is the best help I have seen on the net.

http://members.cox.net/oehrli/sub.html
Dual Language and Selectable Subtitle Guide

I guess I need to wait for a reply before waffling on further.

"Star-fighter CB007. Over to you red leader ......"

[crystalclear]

In this guide
http://members.cox.net/oehrli/sub.html
the author seems to be advocating a command line program
VCD Imager, which I think is a GNU program and might be the software which VCDEasy calls from its GUI with user collected information.
It is quite common for GUIs to not offer the full service of the command line programs running beneath them. Do you think this might be the case with VCDEasy?

You might want to look at VCDImager and try it to see if it makes a difference.

Do you think VCDEasy is messing up the MPG stream containing the subtitles, or forgetting to add something else required for playback?

Is it possible to play the VCDEasy created SVCD MPG file on your computer with a player, like Power DVD or windows media player, and somehow check whether VCDEasy has removed the subtitles or whether they still appear when the disc is seen be players other than your normal home DVD player?


=================

Nothing to do with your probem, but when the subs work with Nero, how do you select the subs you want, from a menu built into the DVD player to select stream 1,2,3,4 or built into the player to select a language, or a menu you wrote and put on your SVCD? I don't even know how it is supposed to work.

[Cornucopia]

1st- You'll never know if you've done well or badly unless you have a player that can play SVCD/CVD subs. If you can't tell from this site or from the manufacturer's boards, you'll need to get a hold of a verified successful copy of a SVCD/CVD title that has working subs. Then you can do your own testing.
You could DL the image that's in the What is--SVCD section.

Next- You need to realize that SVCDs and CVDs don't have near as much functionality as DVD. One area is in the machine command set. DVD's can, with the better authoring softwares, remember pre-sets or selections and be able to compare them. While SVCD (and I assume CVD may also) has a supposed machine commandset, there is currently NO authoring software which supports it, with the possible exception of Phillips SVCD Designer/Toolkit/Verifier which is ~$5000 US? Not worth it!
So, your idea of "pre-selecting" the subs with a menu is not a workable scenario in SVCD-land.
The way it seems to work on the SVCD's with subs that I have tried (and gotten to watch succesfully) is that the disc starts with NO subs activated and that you MANUALLY have to switch subs with the [Subtitle] button. Your scenario would cycle through OFF...French...Dutch...OFF.
If you want to, you could put a menu that has the choices,suggesting to manually cycle through, but there is no way you will be able to select via the menu itself.

Other than those MINOR things , you actually seem to be on the right track.

BTW, re: VCDEasy notes--Unless you've actually paid for your copy of VCDEasy, I wouldn't expect Delphi.stuff to listen to you much. He has said as much previously on his website.

HTH,
Scott

[crystalclear]

Thanks,
I had intended to try downloading a SVCD image with subtitles to see what my DVD player makes of it. It was only yesterday I that I first managed to create a SVCD which I thought even might have had subtitles on it, so there has not been much point up till now.

When I first started, I thought I just need a program to create a file with some text and timing information. If I had realized I needed to convert that to BMP and that to MPG and multiplex it, and ... I'd never have bothered.

I'm not asking delphi to fix any of the list of things. I am grateful for his software and especially his attitude. The list is for his benefit more than mine.

I'm glad you explained that DVDs are more complex, as I was wondering how a menu on the recorder could be set for example to German subtitles and work it out from there, or how menus could change the players setup. You can tell its been specified by a institutional committee - ie people that should be committed to an institution.

You sound like a professional - very knowledgable. Hope its going fine. I'll test now and chat later .....

[crystalclear]

Okay, test failed. It plays DVD subtitles, but not SVCD it seems. I guess I need to try CVD next. Thanks for the help.

[Anonymoususer]

Here is an excellent guide for creating Selectable Subtitles

http://www.how-to-convert.com/ask_us/a7042003.htm

and another one for creating 2 Switchable Audio Streams on an SVCD

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/130151.php

P.S:- Before you begin doing these processes make sure you have your mpeg files and audio files converted seperately, for the muxing to be successful, BTW this relates for the Audio.

[vitualis]

The Demo-SVCD from Vcdimager SVCD contains 2 selectable Subtitles as well as two selectable audio-streams and selectable chapters.
Everything works fine on my dvdplayer (and the other players i have tested)

Which implies that the SVCD subs as authored with VCDImager works on your player with PBC. Have a look on the VCDImager site to see if hvr documented how he made those SVCD samples. Unless I'm wrong, he used WinSubMux...

After Ripping this SVCD and Re-authoring with Vcdeasy (including vcdimager 7.12), no more subtitles are visible in all DVD-Players i have tested.

The crucial difference is that hvr when he made the SVCD samples would have created his OWN MPEG files with the subs for authoring while you have ripped the MPEGs off the SVCD. For all we know, vcdxrip / cdxa2mpeg may not work properly with subbed MPEG-2 streams and dump a "mangled" MPEG-2 stream...

But this is only if the the svcd was authored including chapters and PBC-support. It works if it was authored without chapters.

Just a little bit of clarification here... Are you saying that if the SVCD was authored with PBC but without chapters, it still worked?

It also works if the cd was burnerd with nero, but thats this is not relevant, because nero does not have real authoring functionality and does not support chapters.

Yes, but Nero always burns discs with PBC. It does not create PBC-less discs.

Theres is the same Problem with nearly any other tested authorting software. After authoring and burning f.a. with Ulead-software there are no more subtitles, even the second audio-stream is lost (althoug there was no reencoding of the mpeg)

This may simply mean that Ulead remuxed the MPEG as it processed it and if it doesn't understand things like a second audio stream +/- subtitle stream, it may cut it out.

I have now worked for several weeks, trying to integrate "selectable" subtitles with pbc and after all i have given up, because it seems to be impossible. I tested the svcds on several dvd-players, with always the same result.

Have you tried making your MPEGs "de-novo" or are you just using the ripped streams from the SVCD test disc?

As adam stated, these subs do work, but hardware support is inconsistent and generally poor. I personally no longer bother trying with "soft" subs and if required, I use "hard" encoded subs only.

Regards.

[Matthias01]

Hi!

I am just in the same situation as nolli. But since some time has passed and somehow this thread has not found a "success" end. I would like to bring it back. TEST_VCD works with my DVD-player!!

vitualis wrote:

The crucial difference is that hvr when he made the SVCD samples would have created his OWN MPEG files with the subs for authoring while you have ripped the MPEGs off the SVCD. For all we know, vcdxrip / cdxa2mpeg may not work properly with subbed MPEG-2 streams and dump a "mangled" MPEG-2 stream...

And that seems to be the key problem... I have created a SVCD using NERO VISON EXPRESS 2.1.0.4 and also riped the MPG off the NRG-file using VCDeasy 1.1.1 (1.1.5 complains "TestVersion expired" and 1.1.7 limits to 400 MB (I would not like to "pay" if the tool does not succeed)) and also tried ISObuster.

I am right now recoding the original AVI to MPG with TMPGEnc.

Did anyone check WHAT is going wrong with ripping the MPG off the NRG THAT would be the easiest way...

Did vcdxrip / cdxa2mpeg impove since then?

CU!
Matthias