two planes crash in new york trade towers

[SupaCoopa]

In memory of all those innocent victims.
May they rest in peace.

Themistocles
Athens, Greece


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SupaCoopa on 2001-09-12 08:49:55 ]</font>

[KuskenLars]

I live in Sweden and I've seen the reports on CNN, the swedish channels and CNN.com.
All I can say is that this is horrible and totaly unforgivable!
I hope that the responsible will be punished!

The rest that I can say is that you have my deepest sympathy, it's just plain sick to do those things!!!

[sullen]

CNN.com has footage of both crashes. They have a video where some firefighters were on the street filming when the first plane struck the first tower and recorded the effects right after. They also have a very clear video of the second plan coming and striking the tower. The audio is very discernable in that you can her the jet coming and then the explosion. It is horrifying.

[monsoon01]

ii just heard that they found a guy alive in the rubble who was on the 82nd story, hope there are more like him.

[shochan]

I have neard that it is the end of the world many times before. Back when the Gulf war was going on I heard that it was the end. Everyday is the begining of the end. What has happened is a travisty and there will be retrobutions for yesterdays action and we as a world must now no that no one is untouchable. It can happen to us all. No one is to blame but the culprits of this hellacious cowerdly act. Im not to much of a religious man but I do pray for the people and the families affected, and for all of us that this will open our eyes and bring the world togeter as a whole against terrorism. I being in the Us Air Force am ready to defend my world against these acts of cowards. I would rather die in the fight against terrorism then to die in a building unknowing of what was about to go down.

[monsoon01]

seems the US govt. is finding lots of info on the people who did this, investigation is going very fast, suppost to be the largest in US history, i cant wait till we catch these cowardly bastards.

[plut.O]

I'm sure many have read this, but for those who haven't.
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan, and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, war mongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?

If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.
You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at . Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.

They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.



When the railways of France, Germany, and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, America!

[AmeliaK]

How do you hurt these people? I mean look, they were happy to learn to fly an aircraft only to kill them self at the end of it. If you kill them is that going to do anything? And if they’re not worried about dieing, then putting them in jail certainly wont do anything.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying don't do anything, all I am asking is what does the US need to do that is going to make an impact on the terrorists.

And to all that were affected, you have my deepest sympathy.

Regard
Amelia

[gf]

My heart goes out to all the people that lost their lives in this disaster. There are no words WE could say to the survivors to ease their pane. I hope some justice will come to those who are involved with this act. I live about 5 miles away from NYC and it's sad to look in that direction now. May god bless everyone who lost someone in this disaster.
Steve

[alucard2050]

I read some of these opinions from other countries and i just want to say THANK YOU from myself, and all here in the USA.

[Sefy]

WHY DOES IT HAVE TO COME TO THIS FOR AMERICA TO OPEN IT"S EYES TO WHAT ISRAEL IS GOING THROUGH ????? and you keep telling us to make peace with them!!! NOW DO YOU BELIEVE US ???
why must it take thusands and thusands of lifes for the USA to see what is going on??? those people shouldn't have to be delt with in peace!! they don't know what peace is!!! they have no respect for human lifes!!! they are dancing with JOY for what has happened!! there is no INNOCENTS!! you americans should face it, they want ALL OF US DEAD!!! how could 4 planes be hijacked at the SAME DAY with KNIVES ?? have you got no respect!! if you had Israel Intelligence there, this would not have EVER happened!!
The Arabs don't want peace, they want all the free world to disapper!! it's about time somebody wipes them off the face of the earth!!!

[AmeliaK]

Sefy,

I know I sit here in Australia and have VERY limited understanding in terms of Terrorism. But do you really think its possible to, as you say "about time somebody wipes them off the face of the earth". Is this possible and in fact logical?

These people are willing to die for what they believe in. I don't think you can in reality "Wipe them off the face of the earth" and if this is the cast then where do we go.

I guess what I am trying to get here is the ANSWER, and I have a feeling there is no 100% solution.

So what are your thoughts ?

Amelia

[Sefy]

I'm just pissed off at America for letting this happen, I mean, lets get real here, 4 planes Hijacked in ONE day ?? and no intelligence ? what kind of security does America run ? Microsoft Windows ??

I'd be the last to support mass murder, but I know how these Arabs are like, but what do the Americans show on their TV's ? they show Israel as the bad guy, and if you see what really goes on, it will make you sick to your stomach!

Israel just 2 days before this, has suffered 6 bombings!! has any one of the americans lifted an eye brow ? no, of course not, it's just jewish blood, we deserve it, America is even worse then the Arabs, because they ALLOW it to happen, the Arabs don't wan't peace, they never did! since when does America deal with Terrorists ? NEVER! but it TELLS and FORCES a different country to make PEACE with them ??

I feel hurrible for all those loses, those innocent people, Israel has closed down completly and mourned the loses of all those people, what do the palestinans do ? innocent or not innocent, they CELEBRATED! you really think nobody knew this was going to happen ? they knew! they just wouldn't believe the Arabs would do such a thing!

And you know how this will end up ? being Israel's fault, of course, America needs an escape goat, and here it is, every one will blame Israel for this, that because the USA helped us (as if!) then it's our fault, but why wouldn't the US allow Israel to DEFEND itself ? why must WE tolerate all this bombings and death each and every day, does anyone in the world gives a damn ? nobody does! untill it happesn to them!

[d_hitman]

First of all condolences to the relatives and friends who were left behind by the victims of this most atrocious crime against humanity. Yes, it was a crime - an act of war even - not just against the US and innnocent American civilians but against every freedom loving citizen of this world.

Now to the question of how we can defeat them: i say it takes a thief to catch a thief. It may be hard to comprehend but I believe that only their fellow Muslims - the right minded ones - can do the job. We need them to convince these terrorists that even their own will not condone such atrocities. And without such support and approval no terrorist will prosper.

The whole world needs to show that we are capable of living in peace together - regardless of religion or political persuasion. Only then will this whole thing stop. Instead of spending billions of money building bombs and weapons of mass destruction why don't we start building schools? and hospitals? - in Palestine!

This is no longer just a battle of guns and bombs - it is and has always been a battle for hearts and minds. If our knee jerk reaction only serves to isolate our peace loving and right thinking Muslim brothers then the terrorists will have won not only the battle but the war.

Yes let us have justice - but more important than that - let us win the war! May God grant us all the wisdom to realize this.

[Sefy]

d_hitman, those are great words, and I agree with you, god knows Israel knows suffering like nearly no other country in the whole planet, but now lets do a "reality check" did you know that the US paid Arafat 30million (or was it billion?) to make schools and hospitals, a generous amount for a great cause.

Do you know where that money went ? into buying weapons, artiliary, sponsor assasins and other criminal activities around the globe, sure it won't be localy, they have to look innocent enough to no one will point the finger at them.

Do you know how they teach math in school ? here is a question that was shown on TV here in Israel but I doubt you saw it: How many jews do you kill with one bomb in a school room of 40 people ? the answer ? all of them if you stand in the middle!

And don't think only jews were mentioned no, America, and everyone else that isn't muslim, the problem is, you propably think it's cute, it's nothing serious, and it shouldn't concern you, cause you live so many thusands of miles away.

Well, this time they hit you where it really hurts, is the US finaly going to do something about it and show them it won't take any crap ? or is it going to be a spank on the bottom and people will be in jail, which by the way, is heaven for them if you saw how they live, in jail they get cloths and they are being fed.

[AmeliaK]

Oh Well . . I guess no simple answers.

Sefy, I think the reason why this has made such an impact is purely because of the scale of the Terrorism. Please dont get me wrong, when I see other acts of Terrorism around the world, yes I am shocked, but ist just the scale of this instance.

I have no words to describe my thoughts. I would just like to express our deepest sympathy, for all who are victims of this horrible action.

Amelia

[Shifthrow]

If this had happened anywhere else besides the U.S., the U.S. would be sending aid relief, money, and human resources to help out with the search and rescue. The U.S. already sends many billions of dollars to countries for all kinds of relief, one of these countries is Israel. I am an American and I live in the U.S., therefore I have no idea what it is like to live anywhere else. I love my freedom and never take it for granted. In NO WAY does the United States deserve any attacks. Not for any reason.

[d_hitman]

Sefy,

Generalizations and wrong assumptions : two things you never take to battle.

Wrong assumption #1

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it shouldn't concern you, cause you live so many thousands of miles away.
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Yes Sefy it does concern me because I am not an American and I do not live in the US - but I live in a country where terrorism has prospered for decades and is still holding us in a tright grip.

But if there is one thing that is giving us hope it is the fact that there are still right thinking Muslims in our midst who have began to reject terrorism. Some of them have even done the unthinkable - visiting a Catholic church to pay homage to a Catholic priest. Someone who has shown them kindness and concern.

Wrong assumption #2:

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you probably think it's cute, it's nothing serious,
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I do not think it is cute - it is barbaric and I know it first hand because we have have had similar experiences.

If US money was not spent in the right way that does
not mean we should stop looking for better ways of doing it.

To succumb to the temptation of a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye is to want a world where everybody is toothless and blind! Now we don't want that do we?

A terrorist very much like a guerilla is like a fish that needs water to survive. Take away the water - the fish dies. In this case, their fellow Muslims would be the water. Win their hearts and minds and you drain the water from the pond. The fish will die.

But just to clarify : I am not saying that there is absolutely no need for deadly force or proper intelligence work. All I am saying is it is a mistake to assume that that is the only thing necessary. It takes more than that.

And yes Amelia you are right - it is complicated. All the more reason to think right and be patient. To rant and rave and begin killing innocent civilians just like the terorists did is to play right into their design. They want nothing else but for the US and everybody else to do just that. That will be their real victory. That will give them the opportunity to say - look this only proves that the US is really the Great Satan.

[Sefy]

AmeliaK, why does it have to take this for someone to pay attention ? why so many have to die for someone to see the truth ?

Shifthrow, I love my freedom too, I don't think anyone anywhere deserves such a thing, defenetly not a friendly country like the United States, but nobody takes action untill something happens to themselfs, and that's the pity.

d_hitman, maybe it does concern you, but to let them get away with it and put them in jail, they will be thanking you, they got no food or cloths, their only objective is to wipe YOU out of the face of the planet, I am NOT saying that every single living Arab on the face of the planet is a terrorist and guilty and they should all die, but I promise you both the US and Israel KNOW who the guilty party is! Israel won't take actions because the US told us not too!, and the US is too goody toosho to do anything about it.

Something our pre-pre Prime Minister Bibi Netanyaho said, that NOW we have the power, NOW we can strike back, this wont be the case in a few years, cause we maybe a bunch of bleeding hearts that have human rights and we would not ever do something like that, but as soon as the Arab terrorists get their hands or develope their own Nucklear weapons, or any other type of doomsday machinery, they won't have the care or the human rights like we do, they WILL use it! cause one day, the US won't be as powerful, because they will keep on taking hits and doing nothing about it, and then what ? you say, oh, remember how we tried to help you ?

You know why Terrorism will always win Democracy ? because it will USE democracy to destroy it, they will blow you to pieces bit by bit, and tell to your beloved CNN. it was an accident, we will help you find the guilty party, kill 5 to 7 of our bad people, this won't happen again, untill the next time.

[d_hitman]

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but to let them get away with it and put them in jail, they will be thanking you, they got no food or cloths, their only objective is to wipe YOU out of the face of the planet
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Sefy, again, another wrong assumption. I never said let them get away - I have said and will say it again: hit them hard - yes - but hit them right - so they never get up again! There's a difference between hard and right. Right? One is not necessarily the other. Any warrior who is worth his salt will tell you that.

They exist and live for their own kind. If it is their own kind that begins to reject them what will they terrorize for?

[Sefy]

When you are brought up from a young age to hate and they teach you it's good to die if you take your enemy with you, and you grow up on that, you sorta tend to become a brainwashed murderer.

You may see in the CNN cameras how a very tiny small portion of them telling how much they feel bad, and you even see Arafat donating blood and how he condems those acts, and all the time they are sympethizing with you, they already negotiate the next terror attack.

Yes, I agree with you, they should be hit and they should be hit hard and right, but if you don't, you may not get another chance to ever do it.

Are you going to offer peace to the mortal enemy that wants you dead ? you come with love, they come with hate that is so strong you cannot even comprehand, and when you hug them with your love, they will smile you in the eye while they stab you again and again and they will keep on smiling at you while you die.

I promise you both the US and Israel know where to hit, but it appears that even this has not yet put anything in Bush's head, do you know that when in Israel there is a bomb, the PM will be AT the site of the explosion offering condulances for the families, while YOUR president goes into hiding! what kind of leader is he ??? he will "hunt and punish" the guilty ones, they already know who the guilty ones are, I think they are dead, and we know who their leaders are, and they are still talking peace with Israel, because the USA told us to.

[d_hitman]

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while YOUR president goes into hiding! what kind of leader is he ???
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Sefy, when do you ever stop and think? Another wrong assumption! Bush is NOT my president! and I am not an American.

Patience my friend - it is a virtue that in this kind of war will spell the difference between victory and defeat.

[Sefy]

When I say YOU, I don't specificly mean YOU as in you in PERSON, i'm talking about nearly every american which now blames Israel for this, this pisses me off more then anything. and patience may be a virtue, but at this moment, if we have that much patience again it will only to bury the dead, cause while we wait, they are already planning the next attack.

[mudie]

In the wake of the World Trade Center attacks there is a prophecy attributed to Nostradamus making the rounds on the internet (and here in this very thread). The passage reads as follows: “In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb.”

While this may seem chilling in light of the events that have just passed (“Two brothers torn apart”-the twin towers, “fortress endures”-the Pentagon hit but still intact) it was NOT, I repeat NOT written by Nostradamus.

The author is a student named Neil Marshall who lives in Canada. He wrote the passage above in an article on his web site explaining (His opinion) the “emotion and superstition rather than logic and common sense” that people trust when reading the prophecies of Nostradamus. Ironically he wrote the “prophecy” above (out of his own head) as an example of how people can twist and turn writings to tie them to modern events thus “proving” that they can be believed.

In his article he writes “What do I mean by thunder--a storm? War? EarthQuake? lots of stuff can be described by thunder.”

Key words: “What do I mean”

The article in question is (and has been for some time) at http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm

Please take the time and read it for yourself then pass this information on. The last thing anyone needs now is to pour gasoline on an already inflamed emotional situation.

[Sefy]

PORNOST4R, i'll just comment on what you said in the other post, I know there are a few who don't think like me, they are the ones who support the Arabs more then they support there own kind, they would like the Americans do anything, and ignore everything in front of them, just to have peace, and I wouldn't mind having peace, you think I enjoy all these terrorism all around me ? you think I don't want peace ? I want peace just like everyone else, but I would not be willing to give up my freedom for peace, cause that would not be peace anymore.

And believe me that at this particular moment, the Arabs have finally made their last mistake, they didn't attack Israel which was chained to whatever USA would say, they attacked the United Stated of America, and they won't take this lightly, all the nations of the world WILL act, the question is when and how, cause like the newspapers in the US said, that was an ACT OF WAR!

[d_hitman]

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i'm talking about nearly every american which now blames Israel for this, this pisses me off more then anything.
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nearly every american? come on Sefy, I doubt if that is really the case. Another assumption?

[haq202]

just a small point but it might suprise you to hear that the majority of muslims are truly upset/against at what happened on tuesday.... and that the acts witnessed on tuesday are actually against islamic law.

[d_hitman]

haq202 : just a small point but it might suprise you to hear that the majority of muslims are truly upset/against at what happened on tuesday.... and that the acts witnessed on tuesday are actually against islamic law.

Haq,

that does not surprise me ... I trust in the human (Muslim or Jew, Christian or Heathen) spirit more than anything else. Its the zealots and fanatics that worries me... bigotry and fanaticism (whether of Jewish or Muslim descent) is the root of all these terrorism.

[haq202]

its just a shame that the islamic name is being tarnished by the acts of rebels....

[xzarkad]

First of all:

Already two days agoo I have written in this post my sympathy for all US victims.

I think it is a horrible thought that radical terrorist can do such a thing. The extreme radicalims is very dangerous.

I do also not like radical reactions, like Sefy did.

For Sefy: yes, 6 boms exploded in Israel. 18 Israelian died. In the same period 41 Palestinians died.

I also know that any kind of radical thoughts can be the end of our peace. Those idiots who want to wipe out all Americans from this earth, are extremely dangerous. But:
if Sefy wants to wipe out all Arabs from the face of this earth, then you are just as radical as them.

I agree that the US see this as an act of war, and they have to react to this madness. I also think that that the guilty ones have to be punished.

But, Sefy, you cannot erase a whole race for this. We europeans do not wish to see such a race-hatred again.

I just know this:
It always are the innocent who die in this mad world.....