DMF2 flickering on TV playback not on PC!!!

[Steve4467]

When viewing dvds captured and authored with DVD Movie Factory2 there is a flickering effect,almost strobe-like on horizontal movements across the screen.This is only visible on TV on both Tosh player and PS2.The dvds play fine on pc in Powerdvd.This is not interlacing effect but almost a ghosting effect on movement.It is worse with VHS captures.This effect does not occur with dvds captured with AverTVStudio software.However the DMF2 captures are better.
Has anyone seen this before.Any solutions.Ulead support times are abysmal.

[Scheif]

This is almost certainly a "field order" problem. Your fields are probably getting reversed during the rendering process. It does not show up when playing your DVD on a PC, because the player is de-interlacing the video.

[txcartertest]

Is there any correction for this problem?? I am seeing the same issues using a pioneer DVD burner with Movie Factory 2. Any direction to resolve would be greatly appreciated.

Jim

[Scheif]

You need to use the same field order of your original source when you encode your video. Digital Video (DV) captured over Firewire is always bottom-field-first. The field order of video captured with an "analog" card depends on the card.

[Specialist]

By the way...

You can access FIELD ORDER options by activating the ADVANCE MPEG
encoding options in Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2.

On my Windows 2000 computer...

1. I clicked MY COMPUTER;

2. I clicked my C: drive;

3. I clicked the DOCUMENTS & SETTINGS folder;

4. I clicked the ALL USERS folder;

5. I clicked TOOLS > FOLDER OPTIONS and then clicked the VIEW tab to
make sure Windows would show HIDDEN FILES AND FOLDERS;

6. I clicked the APPLICATION DATA folder;

7. I clicked the ULEAD SYSTEMS folder;

8. I clicked the ULEAD DVD MOVIEFACTORY folder;

9. I clicked the 2.01 folder;

10. I clicked the DVDMF i-n-i file and then typed ADVANCE=1 under the
[VIODRIVER] heading;

11. I saved the i-n-i file;

12. Then I closed Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2 and re-opened the program.

Now when I enter the project settings, I see a new ADVANCE button
under the COMPRESSION tab.

When the ADVANCE menu pop-up appears, click the BASIC settings tab.

You'll note a drop-down list that allows you to choose...

1. NO FIELDS (Frame-Based)
2. UPPER FIELD FIRST (Field Order B)
3. LOWER FIELD FIRST (Field Order A)

Hope this helps,

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[txcartertest]

Thanks. I will give it a shot.

I am using the ATI All in Wonder 9000 as the capture device through the S-Video input.

I will let you know if it works.

Thanks again,

Jim

[txcartertest]

I updated the .ini file and was able to change the field order. I burned a trest DVD with top field first and another with no field order. They both look the same as far as the strobe effect on moving items in the picture. The still frames or when there is little movement looks good. It is only when there is movement in the picture that the items that are moving have a jitter or strobe effect to them.

Any other ideas as to the cause??

Thanks for the help.

Jim

[Specialist]

1. What are the attributes of your SOURCE material?

2. How did you obtain your SOURCE material?

For example, let's suppose you obtained your source material with a camcorder.

Let's say you used a DVD camcorder such as the Panasonic VDR-M30.

Using the high (Xtra) quality setting, you record several minutes of video with the following attributes:

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 Bits, 704 x 480, 29.97 fps
Field Order B
(DVD-NTSC), 4 : 3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8800 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

These attributes are your cue to adjust the PROJECT SETTINGS in Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2 to precisely *match.*

Consequently - what are the attributes of your source video?

How did you obtain your source clips?

Answers to these two questions will help determine how to properly adjust the project settings in Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[txcartertest]

I am using DVD Movie Factory 2 as my capturing software. I am capturing video and audio from a S-VHS playback deck with the S-Video and Audio connections being made through an ATI All in Wonder 9000 video card.

I am selecting the capture through MF2 and changing the configuration to accept the S-video instead of the defaulted tuner of the ATI 9000.

I have selected the "capture Format" in MF2 to be DVD since that is what I want to burn it to. Is this a potential problem? Should I be saving it as an MPEG?

After the capture is complete, I have created menus, previewed (which looks good) and then burned directly from MF2 as well as trying to save the Video TS folfders and creating the DVD from PrimoDVD 2.0 Both processes have left me with the same results.

Since I am capturing the video with MF2, I would expect that the attributes would be the same.

Thanks again for all of your continued support and assistance.

[Specialist]

Again - I would ask...

What are the attributes of your SOURCE video?

To determine the attributes, please right mouse click on your captured clips within Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2.

Then click MEDIA CLIP PROPERTIES.

What information appears?

The MPEGs I get from my DVD camcorder have the following attributes:

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 Bits, 704 x 480, 29.97 fps
Field Order B
(DVD-NTSC), 4 : 3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8800 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

What are the attributes of your MPEGs?

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[txcartertest]

The attributes of my MPEG files are:

File Format: NTSC DVD
Video Type: MPEG2 Video, Field A
Attributes: 24 Bits, 720 x 480
Frame Rate: 29.970 Frame/Sec
Data Rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio Type: LPCM Audio
Attributes: 48,000 Hz, Stereo

Anything that looks out of the ordinary??

All of the files have the same attributes, just different file sizes, durations, total frames, and total audio samples.

Thanks,

Jim

[Specialist]

The attributes of my MPEG files are:

File Format: NTSC DVD
Video Type: MPEG2 Video, Field A
Attributes: 24 Bits, 720 x 480
Frame Rate: 29.970 Frame/Sec
Data Rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio Type: LPCM Audio
Attributes: 48,000 Hz, Stereo

Anything that looks out of the ordinary?

No.

The attributes look fine.

1. Click the second button - the one in the lower left hand corner of the interface - the one with the check on it;

2. Do your project settings *precisely* match the attributes of your SOURCE clips?

3. If not, adjust your project settings in Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2 to *match* the attributes of your source clips.

Then burn.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[txcartertest]

I am really getting frustrated with this!!!

All of my attributes match and I still have the same strobelike effect when things are moving. I do not know what else to try. Does anyone have another capture and authoring program that works well??? I need to be able to easily create chapters from one long source. IE: 1 long capture of a wedding and chapters of prior to ceremony, seating of family, ceremony, exchanging of vows, exit, reception, etc.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

Jim

[fravel]

If your field order is A do a test with lower field first. As Specialist wrote, Lower Field First (Field Order A). You wrote that you did a test with top field first and another with no field order. You also wrote that your mpeg video is Field A. Then, you must use Lower Field First (Field Order A). That's the way Ulead products identify fields. Contrary to other apps.
Good Luck!

[xsbs52x]

i have the same capture card as you, the ati all in wonder 9000 pro and i have the exact same problem you do. i havnt been able to fix it either
i doubt its the capture card though....ill post back if i find anything out.

by the way im capturing from cable tv directly to vcd compliant mpeg1 with the multimedia center 8.5

[thayne]

i have the same capture card as you, the ati all in wonder 9000 pro and i have the exact same problem you do. i havnt been able to fix it either
i doubt its the capture card though....ill post back if i find anything out.

That doesn't make sense. To me it looks like it *is* the capture card.

[txcartertest]

Fravel -- I was trying the lower field first at the beginning (it was the default setting) and it still looked the same. Thanks for the tip, but unfortunately that will not be the answer today.

I may look at another external capture device to see if that will make a difference.

I am still very receptive to the suggestions.

Thanks everyone.

Jim

[Specialist]

Jim,

I would like to be clear about something here.

You made the statement that you were capturing with Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2 and that - because you were doing so - everything should match.

That isn't necessarily true.

What you capture may *not* be matching your project settings.

The capture settings and the project settings ARE DISTINCT FROM EACH OTHER.

When you earlier listed your video attributes, did you...

a. ...simply copy the properties of your CAPTURE SETTINGS?

...or...

b. ...did you RIGHT MOUSE CLICK on the captured clips in Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2 and then click the MEDIA CLIP PROPERTIES option to learn the REAL attributes of the clips?

Please do "B" if you didn't do that earlier.

Then please list these properties.

The reason I'm puzzled is that you mention your capture device is an analog ATI product.

Usually, such analog products DICTATE FIELD ORDER B!

So when you earlier provided properties for your captured video, I observed them and while those properties you listed would not be unusual if you had been capturing from an OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 controller card, they *do* seem to be unusual if you are using an analog capture device.

Please double check the true properties of your captured clips.

I suspect the properties read-out that you gave earlier is not accurate.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Specialist]

i have the same capture card as you, the ati all in wonder 9000 pro

When you capture clips using this device, and you import them into Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2, please right mouse click on the clips.

Then click MEDIA CLIP PROPERTIES on the pop-up.

Then please provide the list of attributes for your captured files.

By attributes, I mean information similar to this:

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 Bits, 704 x 480, 29.97 fps
Field Order B
(DVD-NTSC), 4 : 3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8800 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

If the user...

a. correctly determines the precise attributes of the SOURCE media

...and...

b. carefully adjusts the project settings to match

...there will be no field order issues.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[xsbs52x]

well, im not using ulead dvdfactory. im using the multimedia center that came with my card and it is harder to find out what my detailed settings are. if someone could give me the exact source properties of regular cable tv, i might be able to adjust my field order and tell you if that fixes it

[txcartertest]

Jerry -- The properties were from the right mouse click on each of the captured clips in MoveFactory2. I have several captures of varying lengths and they all have the same attributes as I had listed in the earlier post with the exception of the duration, number of total frames, and total samples (under audio properties).

File Format: NTSC DVD
Video Type: MPEG2 Video, Field A
Attributes: 24 Bits, 720 x 480
Frame Rate: 29.970 Frame/Sec
Data Rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio Type: LPCM Audio
Attributes: 48,000 Hz, Stereo

I have tried both upper and lower frames and even no frame order, but they all look the same. Once I had made the changes suggested in the .ini file to access the advanced tab settings there was a deinterlaced video (enabled/disabled) and I even tried both of those settings. It still looks the same with a jittery or strobe like effect on movement within the frame. This effects both movement within the picture while the camera is still as well as pans, tilts and zooms.

I have picked up a Pinnacle Studio MovieBox DV to test the capture through it to see of the issue is with the ATI card. It connects via firewire and will capture from analog sources as well as DV sources. My goal is to have some answers to the board by Tuesday afternoon if not before as to if this makes any diference.

Thanks again for all of the support and the continued ideas are always welcomed.

Jim

[Ejoc]

sounds like an IVTC problem.

[xsbs52x]

IVTC = inverse telecine.....right?
inverse telecine has something to do with frame rate....right?
what exactly is it and how does it effect this particular problem?

[Ejoc]

Yup,

If you look at your video frame by frame and if 2 frames have long horizontal then 3 frames are fine and then it repeats this cycle, thats what it it is.

AVISynth has a handy easy way for removing it, Telecide() and Decimate(). TMPGEnc can remove it, but its really slow, my guess is theres a VirtualDub filter that will remove it also.

[xsbs52x]

If you look at your video frame by frame and if 2 frames have long horizontal then 3 frames are fine and then it repeats this cycle, thats what it it is.

i dont understand what you mean

[Ejoc]

http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/interlace.htm

towards the bottom has some example pics.

in my explanation I left out a word

If 2 frames have long horizontal *Lines* going thru them, then you have 3 frames that are normal, then 2 frames with the long horizontal lines and 3 normal frames, its a tecline problem. It happens when 24fps gets convert to 30fps.

[xsbs52x]

so if that happens, would that be the problem? how can i fix it without reencoding? or how can i fix it for future encodings? what frame rate is regular cable tv?

[Specialist]

Jerry -- The properties were from the right mouse click on each of the captured clips in MoveFactory2. I have several captures of varying lengths and they all have the same attributes as I had listed in the earlier post with the exception of the duration, number of total frames, and total samples (under audio properties).

File Format: NTSC DVD
Video Type: MPEG2 Video, Field A
Attributes: 24 Bits, 720 x 480
Frame Rate: 29.970 Frame/Sec
Data Rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio Type: LPCM Audio
Attributes: 48,000 Hz, Stereo

I have tried both upper and lower frames and even no frame order, but they all look the same.

Thanks for the clarification.

When using Ulead software...

Field Order A = Lower Field First
Field Order B = Upper Field First

So you should definitely be using Field Order A (Lower Field First), if your clip properties say so.

Still, I'm puzzled why your ATI device uses Field Order A.

As I mentioned earlier, most analog capture devices use Field Order B.

So this is a little odd.

If the problem persists, then perhaps there is another issue related to your SOURCE material.

I would investigate the other possibility raised in this thread regarding INVERSE TELECINE.

Just out of curiosity, how did you obtain your SOURCE material?

Where did it originate?

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[txcartertest]

Just out of curiosity, how did you obtain your SOURCE material?

Where did it originate?


I am with a Church A/V Ministry and we tape our Sunday worship and special events items on S-VHS. This comes from 3 cameras through a Panasonic Switcher and to the Panasonic recording decks. I then playback the tape in the Panasonic deck to capture through the ATI 9000 Pro card. We are connected via S-Video connectionsd and left / right RCA audio connections.

I have not tried the IVTC frame by frame investigation yet. I will let you know what I find shortly.

Thanks again,

Jim

[xsbs52x]

i think i may have fixed it. in multimedia center, when i capture at a resolution under 480x480, it doesnt let me change the interlace settings. so i changed it to 480x480 and i told it to encode it interlaced. i dont see any horizontal lines at all when i watch it on my computer, which is weird, but when i played it on my tv, the motion looked fine. i didnt have a chance to really watch it and see, but it seems to have worked.

also, im not capturing for dvd authoring, my captures are for vcd.