Subtitles - Some of the Time

[ColtWalker]

Subtitles - Some of the Time

DVD Movie has an option for “subtitles” ON / OFF. Watching with subtitles turned OFF, I noticed at times there are subtitles anyway. Allow me to explain:

With subtitles enabled there are subtitles all of the time, with English and non English speaking people in the movie.

With subtitles disabled there are only subtitles some of the time, when a character in the movie that is non-English speaking speaks.

I converted this movie to VCD, and lost all subtitles. I found a way to create a VCD with all of the subtitles, but that is not what I desire.

Need to have a VCD where just the subtitles for the non-English speaking characters in the movie speak - just like when I play the DVD with subtitles turned off, as explained above. So in short, how do I make a VCD with subtitles some of the time.

* * *

I typically use the following software: Smart Ripper, DVD2AVI, and TMPGenc. I am only interested in methods using free software. Also, I am not interested in a method where I have to manually type all of the subtitles in a file prior to dubbing them into the video feed.

Thank you in advance for any information useful on this subject

[ColtWalker]

At the time I am writing this 60 people viewed my question and 0 answered. After browsing through the forums I discovered that I am not alone in asking about “forced subtitles”. Unfortunately, it appears that the other relevant questions also went unanswered or were answered incorrectly. Forced Subtitles are different from regular subtitles in that they appear even if the subtitles option is turned off while viewing a DVD movie. I think this point alone is key to understanding the question.

There are three primary types of subtitles, which you may encounter when processing a DVD that you ripped. (Regular), (Forced), and (Permanent) subtitles.

1.) regular subtitles – intended to translate the movie into other languages, typically when an English movie is viewed by people in another country, such as France. Also included are English subtitles, most likely for the hearing impaired (given that we are talking about an English movie).
2.) forced subtitles – these are stored in the vob file along with normal subtitles. The only difference is that they are specially marked so that these subtitles will appear even if you have the subtitles option disabled. If you are viewing an English movie and a person in the movie is speaking a language other than English, these forced subtitles will appear. Sometimes in a Sci-Fi movie, an alien character is speaking a make-believe language, and therefore subtitles are also necessary to that the viewer can know what is being said.
3.)permanent subtitles – this is where the subtitles are physically part of the video file/stream, such as on a VHS tape or commercial VCD. You have no option as to whether you view them or not, other than covering up the bottom of your television with masking tape.

Star Wars, Attack of the Clones is an example of a movie with some forced subtitles. On the VHS version of the movie, the alien subtitles are permanent subtitles.

The following excerpt taken from doom9 “forced subtitles”:

“Do you remember those movies where part of it was spoken in another language? Unless you're dealing with a dubbed movie there usually are subtitles during that period. For instance take Lord of the Rings. Nobody can understand the Elvish so we're glad we have subs when they use that language, but other than that why ruin a perfectly good movie with subs that distract you from the action on screen? Now when you rip your subtitles you suddenly find yourself with all the subs. This guide shows you how to find forced subs in your subtitle streams and how to make sure only these kind of subs are being displayed.”

The key here is FINDING FORCED SUBS and ONLY RIPPING THEM.

In my next post I will share with you how I accomplished this.

[ColtWalker]

The process of ripping ONLY FORCED Subtitles, in 6 steps.

Combination of Sefy’s guides which cover ripping subtitles in general from a DVD for creating an SVCD or VCD, and how to rip only forced subtitles from a guide on doom9. Sefy’s guide alone is great for people learning how to rip subtitles. Unfortunately, it doesn’t cover the difference between forced subtitles and regular subtitles. So you get an entire movie full of subtitles even if you only need the ones for characters that speak a language other than your own. That’s where doom9’s “Forced Subs” guide comes in handy. As you may already know, doom9 guides are less “user friendly” than Sefy’s guides that you find here, but, if you read carefully and ignore the discrepancies, they can get the job done.

All Freeware or Shareware programs necessary:
Smart Ripper, DVD2AVI, VFAPIConv, VobSub, VirtualDub, and TMPGenc.

Not covered: burning the disc.

To rip FORCED SUBTITLES using the method that worked well for me, follow these steps in the related guides:

1) Sefy’s “Smart Ripper v2.41” guide.
https://www.videohelp.com/sefy/?id=copying6.html

2) Sefy’s “DVD2AVI” guide.
https://www.videohelp.com/sefy/?id=frameserv1.html

3) Sefy’s “VFAPI Converter” guide.
https://www.videohelp.com/sefy/?id=frameserv2.html

4) doom9 “Forced subs in VobSub” document.
http://www.doom9.org/forcedsubs.htm

(It is not necessary to follow everything in this document. The main thing to do is to modify the .idx file you created with Subresynch and change “forced subs: ON” in a text editor such as notepad. It is not necessary to manually go though the subtitles and mark only the permanent ones before saving the idx file, but you can if you want.)

5) Sefy’s “VirtualDub - FrameServing” guide.
https://www.videohelp.com/sefy/?id=frameserv3.html

(Inside the Filter: VobSub dialog box I had to adjust the Y axis of my subtitles to try to keep them out of the video and more in the letterbox part of the screen. A minor adjustment makes a big difference, so don’t move the subtitles down too far or you won’t see them at all. On Custom Colors, boxes you check indicate a transparency. The four boxes begin with background colors to foreground. I recommend checking the first two boxes, setting the third to gray and the last to white. I used a Y offset of 27)

(Preview your work in Virtual Dub before starting the Frame Server. You can see the subtitles there as you scroll through the video feed. Make sure that only the forced subtitles are visible, then when you are satisfied with the custom colors you selected and the position of the subtitles on the screen move on to the next step. Subtitles will be permanently added to the video you process so put them where you like them!)

6) Sefy’s “TMPGEnc - Wizard” guide.
https://www.videohelp.com/sefy/?id=encoding5.html

(I’ve created my own “Select Format” option in the Project Wizard with settings specifically for DVD to VCD. I also recommend actually using nonstandard VCD, such as XVCD with CBR of at least 1500kbps. I have yet to find a DVD player that won’t play my XVCD’s, given that the DVD player will play VCD on CDR media.)

TIP: Installing the latest version of VobSub from SourceForge for the first time? They no longer offer the Zip version, just a lousy exe installer. Ignore the fact that it probably will not accept your VirtualDub path when you try to install the filter, you won’t need to do it that way - just ignore the error!

TIP2: Do not use the vobsub guides on doom9 other than the one I recommended in the fourth step above. You DO NOT need to “extract vobsub.dll to your VirtualDub/Plugins directory and rename it to vobsub.vdf”. Sefy’s guide includes the CORRECT procedure, so do not confuse yourself with other guides.

EOF

[Sefy]

@ColtWalker, thank you for enlighting me on the differences between the
Regular/Forced Subtitles, I will do my best to add/review/show how to do it in
my own guide, so people won't have to be confused by different guides.

[jbenj01]

Good info, Colt-- ..

But my question is:

HOW does one remove permanent subtitles?? Or is there no way?? Thanks.

[Sefy]

I Don't think there is a way to remove permenent subtitles, cause as it says,
they are permenantly embeded into the movie itself.

[Jim The Fish]

What we could do with is something like what I've described in this post:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=149794

BTW: Thanks ColtWalker for actually spending some time on this issue of Forced Subs - as you said, it seems like most people don't have anything to add to this topic, but are happy just reading about it....

[Sefy]

Thanks to ColtWalker i've now added the "Forced Subtitles" explanation into my own guide, so there won't be any need to switch between guides, hopefully will make things much easier.

You can preview it before it will be publicly released to the hosts:
http://www.sefy.dtdns.net/guides/frameserv3.html
and the actuall "Forced Subtitles" section
http://www.sefy.dtdns.net/guides/forcedsub.html

@ColtWalker, as you can see, i've basicly copied what you said, I hope you don't mind, i've of course mentioned it's you, and added your nick to the Special Credits - Guide Helpers section.

[hailieu]

I still don't get it! Please help!

I was sucessfully create a vfapi avi, idx, ifo, and sub file and if I play in the VisualDub tool I could be able to see subtitle. (Note: I did not see any 'Y' when using subresync tool)
I changed the idx file from the NO to YES in the second line (forced subs). I started TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 open the (vfapi.avi) file and did exactly what the instruction said. I did not get and subtitle.

Did I missed something?