SVCD specification supported resolutions

[AntnyMD]

I just read the SVCD document at http://www.cdrinfo.com/articles/svcd/index.shtml ... and I read it to the end. It says the information there is quoted from Philips. I was suprised to see at the end of http://www.cdrinfo.com/articles/svcd/index.shtml where it says SVCD supports 352x240(/288) as well as 352x480(/576) in the spec!

Whats all this talk here then that 352x240(/288) and 352x480(/576) are XSVCD by virtue of not being 480x480(/576)?

I think full-rez *x480(/576) MPEG2 looks better than *x240(/288), but thats beside the point. If I make, for example, an SVCD program stream thats 352x480 variable bitrate with 2 stereo audio tracks, each being 224kpbs and sampled at 44.1kHz, is this or is this not a standard SVCD according to spec?

[lafamar]

We can not make confusion!
There are several configurations (resolution/frame rate/bitrate/sound option) to make a SUPOST vcd or svcd, but DIFFERENT from the ORIGINAL (STANDARD/COMPLIANT/ISO) vcd and svcd.
If your DVD Player Unit says that it works with VCD or SVCD it's telling you a STANDARD/COMPLIANT/ISO VCD/SVCD.
The VCD or SVCD with other configurations can or cannot plays in your DVD Player Unit.
The correct configuration to original VCD or SVCD (standard/compliant/iso) you find in this site.

[AntnyMD]

Thats what I'm trying to do: clear up confusion -- because if the SVCD spec (which is synonymous with the term "standard SVCD") says SVCD 1.0 supports 352x480 VBR MPEG2 up to 2.6Mbps video, 224kbps audio, then that is a standard SVCD.

Who has an actual copy of the specification (paid for or "borrowed") and can confirm for us what is says about 352x240, 352x480 as well as 480x480 (and corresponding PAL resolutions)?

Before lafamar reposts: I am not discussing VCD specs.
Before anyone posts what Nero says: Nero will let you burn anything, so please don't state that Nero attempts to reject anything thats not 480x480, 2.6Mbps, 224kbps, because Nero didn't write the spec.

[VidGuy]

I looked at your cdrinfo page and I do not see where it says the SVCD supports anything but 480 x 480/576. Go read it again.....

Which are the Super VideoCD main features ?

- Resolution: 480x576 (PAL) / 480x480 (NTSC) (2/3 resolution of D1, better as regular TV)
- Video : MPEG2 VBR, average bitrate up to 2.6 mbps
- Still picture resolutions up to 704 x 576
- Graphic overlay in separate video plane
- 4 selectable subtitles for Movies or lyrics for Karaoke
- Audio : Variable audio bitrate, 32 kbs to 384 kbs allowing (5.1) MPEG2 Multi-channel
- Dual audio streams for multi-lingual sound
- Extended interactivity : Player control API, variables, conditional instructions


Nowhere in this paragraph or the table at the end does it say anything but 480 x 480/576...

[digvid]

The actual Philips spec says:

MPEG2 video formats supported are:

NTSC - 480x480 @ 29.97 fps interlaced or
480x480 @ 23.976 fps w/3:2 pulldown (equals 29.97fps)

PAL - 480x576 @ 25 fps

Period. No other resolutions or framerates satisfy the standard.

MPEG2 stills can be 480x480 or 704x480 (NTSC) or 480x576 or 704x576 (PAL).

Note also that you can encode your MPEG2 files at 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio.

The audio must be MPEG1 Layer II only, with the CRC check always on. Single-channel, Dual-channel, Stereo, and Joint-stereo are allowed. The bitrates allowed are from 32-192 kbps, 64-384 kbps, 64-384 kbps, and 64-384 kbps respectively for the channel modes listed above. The sampling frequency must be 44.1 kHz, and there should be no emphasis.

Hope this clears things up a little!

- digvid

[AntnyMD]

I'll concede on Page 1 at the end of the hyperlink I posted it says exactly what you've posted. HOWEVER, if you click through all the arrows at the bottom of each page, you'll discover the following paragraph on Page 5:

"SVCD supports (352x288, 352x576 and 480x576) for PAL. and (352x240, 352x480, 480x480) for NTSC. But the SVCD option in bbMpeg supports only 480x576 for PAL and 480x480 for NTSC (for now). "

Whats up with that, I ask?

[hvr]

fyi, at least for the IEC62107 SVCD specs, only 480x480 and 480x576 resolutions are supported for motion video, everything else is non-compliant.

[digvid]

I had toyed with the idea of writing SVCD-authoring software a year or so ago, so I got a copy of the Philips SVCD official specification. I reread it yesterday, and there is no mention of accepting any motion video other than 480x480 (NTSC) or 480x576 (PAL).

- digvid

[hvr]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-07 08:49:26, digvid wrote:
I had toyed with the idea of writing SVCD-authoring software a year or so ago, so I got a copy of the Philips SVCD official specification. I reread it yesterday, and there is no mention of accepting any motion video other than 480x480 (NTSC) or 480x576 (PAL).

- digvid
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

btw, would you mind getting into contact with my by email?

I have one question regarding a difference between the IEC spec and the philips 4C spec... would be great if you could help me with it...

[AntnyMD]

digvid:

Thanks a bunch. I re-reminded myself today I can't always believe everything I read on the internet, no matter how much I want.

[AT]

IEC62107 is an international standard. Philips' is not.

I think AntnyMD said nothing wrong. Support here just means it can be playbacked properly.

Sure enough, not only 352X480/576, 352X240/288 can be properly playbacked by standlone SVCD player/supported DVD player, but also you can even use MPEG-1 stream!

That is to say, you can mix SVCD file and VCD file in the same SVCD disk.

[vitualis]

I think he used the term "support" as in that it is part of the SVCD standard...

Regards.

[Xitanium]

u all should know this, SVCD is not yet totally final. i have never, EVER heard of or seen a player that advertises SVCD that cant do 352x480... the 44.1 is tru though, some players cant do that. but let me stress, this is barely a 'standard', and outside of china it is BARELY used at all (just china, no other asian country has ChaojiVCD stuff yet)

[AntnyMD]

Well, I did mean "support" as in "part of the standard" spec, however, I'm starting to think as long as the MPEG-2 file is full rez (*x480/576), it should be playable on any SVCD player currently available. I mean, since it's such a limited "standard" generally supported by a host of generic brand standalones, a 352x480 file should be ok.

The thing that first got my attention was that PowerDVD wouldnt properly play back a 352x240 MPEG-2 file ... It displayed a flashing color bar at the bottom of the window ... the color bar disappeared when I recompressed the clip to 352x480. The other thing I noticed was in WinDVD, a 352x240 MPEG-2 clip played audio only, but the video just showed up as a red screen. When I played back the 352x480 clip, it showed up. (I even made some anamorphic test clips, but these do not play back properly on my Apex).

I want to make a decision to encode exclusively MPEG-2 or MPEG-1. Last night I went back to standard VCD with all quality settings maxed out, and I'm back to it taking 17 hours and 30 minutes to encode 74 minutes of VCD standard video. That sucks.

[stanwebber]

quite correct, you will be hard pressed to find a svcd capable dvdplayer that will not playback half-d1 resolution streams i.e. 352x480. before you start worrying if your svcd is philips compliant, you should know that it is impossible to create a 100% compliant disc with currently available methods. hell, even bbmpeg will mux a stream closer to the philips specification than even their own authoring software will

[Bajs]

I'm pretty sure that 352*480/576 is CVD, developed by C-Cube in -97 or -98 CVD and SVCD were competeing on which one would be the next generation "VCD". CVD is an existing format, however IT IS NOT a standard, SVCD developed by the China Recording Industry or something won the duel, and the Chinese govt. let SVCD become the new "VCD" standard. I belive there was another competitir also, which used 640*240/288, I'm not sure about this though.