VHS TO DVD Conversion

[raceman3]

I have a bunch of VHS tapes of my kids that I'd like to get onto DVD. I know I'm not going to gain any imporvement in quality but the media is more durable. I recorded the VHS tape back onto my Sony Digital camcorder and then dumped them via firewire to my PC using Ulead Video Studio. The first hour was 12gig AVI file, is that actually going to compress enough to fit on a 4.7 gig dvd+r. The Sony DVD recorder I have works great but the media states it can store 2 hours worth of video. Based on what I stated above is 24gig actually going to compress to 4.7 ??? If I'm going about this incorrectly any suggestions would be helpful

[k5oz]

raceman3

Look here; https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/94288.php for how to.

Dave

[raceman3]

Thanks for the link Dave. Unfortunately my problem is not how to convert the video. I have recorded the VHS tapes back onto my camcorder and downloaded them to my PC via FireWire and UleadVideo Studio. The AVI file for the first hour of video was 12gig which compressed to 2.5 gig when I rendered it with Video Studio to DVD. Unfortunatelty tha means a 2 hours VHS tape will be 5gig, a bit over the 4.7 gig limit for DVD. Where do they get 2 hours of video on a DVD+r if the results shown above are 5 gig. Is the software I'm using doing a poor job or am I missing something ???

[vhelp]

hi raceman3,

----------------------------------------------------
The AVI file for the first hour of video was 12gig which compressed to 2.5 gig when I rendered it with Video Studio to DVD. Unfortunatelty tha means a 2 hours VHS tape will be 5gig, a bit over the 4.7 gig limit for DVD. Where do they get 2 hours of video on a DVD+r if the results shown above are 5 gig. Is the software I'm using doing a poor job or am I missing something ???
----------------------------------------------------

Given the above, I'd say yes. I'm not familiar w/ Video Studio, but you
may have done something wrong in your process.

If you are familiar w/ TMPG, you may want to have it do the encoding,
by selecting the default DVD template that comes w/ it, then author it w/
Video Studio (if it has DVD authoring in it) or any other DVD authoring
app.

-vhelp

[mpb]

I have a bunch of VHS tapes of my kids that I'd like to get onto DVD. I know I'm not going to gain any imporvement in quality but the media is more durable. I recorded the VHS tape back onto my Sony Digital camcorder and then dumped them via firewire to my PC using Ulead Video Studio. The first hour was 12gig AVI file, is that actually going to compress enough to fit on a 4.7 gig dvd+r. The Sony DVD recorder I have works great but the media states it can store 2 hours worth of video. Based on what I stated above is 24gig actually going to compress to 4.7 ??? If I'm going about this incorrectly any suggestions would be helpful

Hi! Hopefully this info will be useful to you.

Here's the thing. It says "2 hour" on your blank DVD+R, but that's just an average estimate. DVD blanks at 4.7 gigs can hold anywhere from 55 minutes to well over 10 hours of video, depending on *how it's encoded*. I think 55 mins is the bare minimum... that's DVD MPEG-2 at CBR maximum bitrate (9800k) plus LPCM stereo audio (which is basically uncompressed). But CBR is SO wasteful. Never use it. Ulead Video Studio, of course, defaults to CBR. Multi-pass VBR will take longer to encode but yields much better results... in quality AND filesize. To use that, we need to add other software to your production process.

UVS is nice software, but it only allows you limtied control over the encoding process, and thus on the filesize-to-quality ratio and amounts.
Go ahead and edit up your DV-AVI with it, though. Save your edited DV-AVI as an AVI file, 12 gigs, etc, however big it is, once you're totally done chopping it up and making it run the way you like it. Then exit UVS and we're going to jump to another program.

TMPGEnc, which you'll find from the links at left, is a free program that encodes MPEG-2 with far greater control. Try their DVD VBR template, setting your audio type to mpeg layer II. (For audio, this will default you to a stereo stream at 384k - this is perfectly good.) Once you load in your source file in the wizard, pop up "other settings" and set the bitrate types to "2 pass VBR", 8000 max, 2000 min, padding enabled, and 4000 average. Then go forward and it will show you how big your file will be once encoded. There is a clickbox there where you will see the 4000 average you put in before, and you can fine-tune it up and down and watch the file size change. Once it's as small as you want it, go ahead and encode. Give it time - depending on your PC it can take 4 to 10 times the actual video running time to do the encoding. i.e. 2 hour movie = 8 hour encode or more. I leave it running overnight. It actually "analyzes" the whole file first, finding where the high motion is and assigning bitrate accordingly, and then passes again and does the encode.

Your resulting MPG file is an Mpeg-2 DVD file, at 720x480, perfect for DVD authoring. I think UVS will let you re-import that file and create menus etc but if it does not, you can download Ulead DVD Movie Factory, DVD Maestro, Scenarist, or one of the other fine authoring apps we discuss here on this forum. Author, burn and enjoy!!

You can get a lot more time per DVD disc by encoding at 352x480 instead of 720x480. This is because at that resolution, your file will be effectively of maximum quality with bitrates of 2000 low, 4800 high, 2520 average. The only difference is you DO lose some resolution, and since you were planning (I assume) to save these DVDs of your kids for a long time, you may be viewing them on an HDTV eventually and you will want them then to be at full resolution. So it's worth the space trade-off now.

Remember, it's the bitrate and ultimately the file sizes that determine how much video you can cram onto a DVD. The sizes published on the packaging are just general estimates/averages/etc. With practice, you will find yourself able to do damned near anything with TMPGEnc in terms of quality, filesize, and type. Good luck in your efforts!!!

[trillium]

mpb,
That has got to be the most in english understandable explanation I've ever seen on the "How do you...." .

*applauds* to the beautiful explanation!

[Gritz]

Yes .... great, understandable and logical. I copied and pasted in Word for my collection of references. Thanks much .... I appreciate!

[curryman]

if i knew nothing about dv to mpeg and came across that explanation, i would learn it word for word and spout it out to anyone who was willing to listen,
darn good post mpb, nice to see some people actually take the time and effort to give a really thorough explanation

[ZippyP.]

One small niggle......TMPGEnc isn't free. The demo version will do Mpeg2 encoding for a limited time. The full non-limited version can be purchased for about $50 USD and is well worth it.

[wwaag]

Another consideration. Why is it so important to get 2hrs of video on a single DVD--especially of important things--like your kids??

Since these are "home videos", there will probably be a lot of camera shake and quick movements, which translates into high motion rates and the need for a high bit rate if your picture is going to look OK. While you CAN squeeze 2hrs (even more if you're so inclined) onto a single disk by lowering your average bit rate (under software, look for bit rate calculators), you also loose quality. If you're putting episodes of Seinfeld, who cares, but you might think twice about your home videos. Given the fact that blank DVDs are a lot cheaper than good quality VHS tapes, I would give consideration to maxing the quality at the expense of more DVDs.

Just another opinion.

[mpb]

if i knew nothing about dv to mpeg and came across that explanation, i would learn it word for word and spout it out to anyone who was willing to listen,
darn good post mpb, nice to see some people actually take the time and effort to give a really thorough explanation

Thanks guys! I'm happy to help when I can, and I appreciate the kind words. Back when I first started, I read these forums and the guides to learn how it was done. Now that the whole process has matured a lot, I try to steer newcomers away from all the mistakes I made back in the day.

It's still frustrating sometimes to see the "same old" questions in the forum that are adequately explained by the guides, but if a guy like Raceman3 is gonna actually give me a detailed, specific question... I figure we can return the favor.

wwaag: You're right, of course, if something is so crucial that quality is the concern above and beyond the general mechanics of the video, then you'd want to max it out. I'm still not sure that high CBRs are the way to go on that, though. There are frames where, even at the highest quality setting, not all that much bitrate is needed for a perfect encode. I would suggest for anyone that doesn't care about filling space and wants quality to be preserved as best they can, that 2-pass VBR, 2000 min, padded (for the sake of DVD player compatibility), 8000 max, and about a 6000 average should put you way over the top. Very few videos are going to require even close to that much bitrate! I'm fairly sure even "large VOB" movies like Minority Report and LOTR Extended are running less bitrate than that.

[RoopeT]

I'm fairly sure even "large VOB" movies like Minority Report and LOTR Extended are running less bitrate than that

But those DVD's are made from a proper source. If you have a low quality VHS tape and don't use any filtering a lot more bitrate is needed.

[raceman3]

Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. I do have TmpGenc which I used extensively in the past for creating VCD's with higher bitrates. Once I got my DVD recorder I was hoping I could do it all in one package but it appears I'll need to take the same approach as I did with the VCD's using Ulead as the editor and TmpGenc as the encoder. You mentioned about using 2 pass VBR along with some other settings, I guess my next question would be is that going to buy me anything in terms of quality considering these are VCR tapes recorded back onto my camcorder and then dumped to the PC, or is it just compressing more efficiently.

[raceman3]

MPB:

Thanks again for the explanation. After reading it again I saw a few things I over-looked the first time. Good point reguarding 352X480 versus 720X480. Since I have a Sony HDTV (unfortunately 4:3 instead of 16:9) I think I'll opt for the 720X480 format. So be it if I need to use a few more DVR+R's, I still get significantly more on a single disc then I could with a VCD. I think my next step may be a processor upgrade, the 850mhz I have takes quite some time to encode. I can bump it up to 1.4 without replacing the system board, anything higher and I'll be looking at new pc. Also, you are correct in stating that I can burn the mpeg created with TmpGenc via Uleads DVD wizard.

[spiderman2k1]

The best way I would say to do this is use a high end VHS VCR if it was shoot on VHS get a JVC for around $329.00 http://www.crazyg.com/ or http://www.jandr.com tese high end VCR will clean up old tape's and make them look new they have four meg's of ram to clean up the picture. Then use a Dazzle 2 and capture at 8000 CBR and use MPEG2VCR to edit very easy and very good quilty

[Buffist]

I do the same job with my VHS-tapes an had very good results by importing them to the HD with UVS (recording in uncompressed avi) and then frameserve the cutted/joined or what ever done with the avi to TmpgEnc. There you can do all the controls over cbr and vbr and bitrate and filtering and so on to get the avi's to MPEG2.

[mpb]

MPB:

Thanks again for the explanation. After reading it again I saw a few things I over-looked the first time. Good point reguarding 352X480 versus 720X480. Since I have a Sony HDTV (unfortunately 4:3 instead of 16:9) I think I'll opt for the 720X480 format. So be it if I need to use a few more DVR+R's, I still get significantly more on a single disc then I could with a VCD. I think my next step may be a processor upgrade, the 850mhz I have takes quite some time to encode. I can bump it up to 1.4 without replacing the system board, anything higher and I'll be looking at new pc. Also, you are correct in stating that I can burn the mpeg created with TmpGenc via Uleads DVD wizard.

Glad to help! One note: since you have an HDTV, you might want to experiment with deinterlacing the video in TMPGenc as you encode. HDTVs are capable of displaying 720x480 progressive, so we might as well give it a progressive stream to play. However in some cases, such as videos with lots of grain, low light, or continuous FAST motion, deinterlacing can cause a lack of smoothness and sharpness. Your results will vary; experiment and adjust to taste.

[Gritz]

You can get a lot more time per DVD disc by encoding at 352x480 instead of 720x480. This is because at that resolution, your file will be effectively of maximum quality with bitrates of 2000 low, 4800 high, 2520 average.

One thing I'm having a little trouble understanding when encoding is that if I set the 2 Pass VBR average rate (size 720x480) up to where it almost fills the disk up ..... and THEN, change the size to 352x480 shouldn't I see the disk space go down? (TMPGEnc) If the visual would show the fill size going down then I could put more on the disk as you say ... but, the size taken up on the disk does not change for some reason. It stays the same reguardless of my selection. I must be missing something? I did encode a VHS movie at 352x480 and checked the disk after I had burned it ... but it seems I could have burned it at 720x480 and not taken any more space. Where am I going wrong?
The results with 352x480 were great though. Or ..... maybe .... it's because I just moved the AVERAGE rate around without changing the MAX and MINUMUM? I'm confused ...........

[DJRumpy]

It encodes at the average bitrate you selected. The output size conforms to this average. Just changing the output resolution will not affect the output size, unless you also change your bitrate.

[raceman3]

mpb:

Thanks again for the info. I do have a progressive scan dvd player but I think I'll try de-interlacing on the newer tape I have since most of the older ones have a variety of the problems you mentioned (low light, lots of movement, etc) My camcorder also supports wide screen mode which I may play with in the future. You were also correct about tmpgenc and vbr encoding. I started my first one last night (13 gig avi), and it was predicting about a 2 gig mpeg. Takes a while to encode as it was still running this morning but the compression and quality is worth it. I'll be looking into a cpu upgrade in the near future to speed things up a bit

[DJRumpy]

Interlaced images still look fine on a progressive scan player, even when combined with HDTV. Most deinterlacing introduces it's own artifacts. You should try your video both ways to see which is acceptable. You can find more info here: www.lukesvideo.com

Check out the interlacing section..it discusses the various different deinterlacing methods, and what effects they have on your output.

[raceman3]

Thanks for the info

[Gritz]

Thanks DJR ... sometimes I just overlook the seemingly obvious I guess.

[DJRumpy]

Gritz, sometimes I think I have it all figured out, only to have someone point out that I was missing the forest for the trees. I still have a hard time with bits to seconds to size. It's not the size that matters here, it's the quality...

Who knew they were right all of this time?

Same bits per second, with a smaller size (resolution), will net you a higher quality MPEG, at the cost of some sharpness though.

[Gritz]

Thanks DJR ..... I'm going to experiment with the smaller size. Going with 720x480 doesn't seem to be any better with my VHS conversions anyway (with my older 32" Quasar TV), and I would like to experiment with getting more on a DVD. I'm thinking 4 half hour video music sessions on one DVD will work out pretty acceptable ........ doing away with 4 VHS Tapes in the process ...... we'll see.

[DJRumpy]

I usually use full D1, but I have an HDTV. If your still on an older TV, try the Half D1 (352x480), and a lower bitrate. You can set the Average setting to somewhere around 3000 and get good quality.

[metoo2]

I have a bunch of VHS tapes of my kids that I'd like to get onto DVD. I know I'm not going to gain any imporvement in quality but the media is more durable. I recorded the VHS tape back onto my Sony Digital camcorder and then dumped them via firewire to my PC using Ulead Video Studio. The first hour was 12gig AVI file, is that actually going to compress enough to fit on a 4.7 gig dvd+r. The Sony DVD recorder I have works great but the media states it can store 2 hours worth of video. Based on what I stated above is 24gig actually going to compress to 4.7 ??? If I'm going about this incorrectly any suggestions would be helpful

Something's wrong here: 12 gigs of AVI file for 2 hours means you've captured a screen size around 320x240 which is a VCD type of resolution. DVD is 720x480 and 12 gigs of avi would only give you approx 12 to 20 minutes of this type of resolution.

It sounds like Ulead has converted a 320x240 resolution video to 720x480, and this will look as fuzzy as all heck.

If the avi is actually at 720x480, what Ulead has done is encoded the audio to a setting that eats up more space. MyDVD does the same thing, so that a DVD will only hold 1 hour 45 minutes of video, and this is after I've used Tmpeg and its DVD template to encode the raw avi file.

[Laddydaddy]

To MPB,
If I encode a film for DVD at a resolution of 352x480 instead of 720x480, will there be a significant loss in quality on an hdtv?

[metoo2]

To MPB,
If I encode a film for DVD at a resolution of 352x480 instead of 720x480, will there be a significant loss in quality on an hdtv?

Why not do a trial-and-error dvd, with the same five minues encoded several ways, and then play the DVD to see what settings you like best?

Once you have your favourite picked out, you can use the same settings for the next time.

[DJRumpy]

Laddydaddy, it will appear slightly softer. I wouldn't go so far as to say blurry.