DVD2one clone (to Major, Kai and Bile)

[CaseyComb]

Kai is frustrated, he wants acknowledgment on his accomplishments... even if it isn't what his target demographic wants. 42 and Disco are nice but...

"but..." being the eternal question

[KaiCherry]

Like I said...

The same people that would give their left nut for one of these $3K computers, would then sit behind said machine and dig at the lil' guys in the trenches *trying* to make these tools.

Because leave us face it, that's where something like that will come from: the little guys.

I'd be willing to bet if we did something *reaaaallllly* close, too, all we'd get was a bunch of pissing and moaning, with a few, "well, until it starts my car and takes out my landlady's garbage, it's not worth a penny.' with *mabye* a parenthetical "to me" thrown in.

Whats more, probably wouldn't sell more than 50 copies of it before some...citizen...tries to crack it or whatever.

Now tak the same sort of product on win32. scenario is probably the same, but they sell about 500 of them before the warez boyz have at it.

And thats it in a nutshell people. Technical problems aside, its *really hard to develop a tool that caters to unsavory types* on a platform thats 1/10 or less of the rest of the universe.

Its harder still to do this with a niche product. Its harder *still* to try to do this for a group that has inherent *distain* for you for *NOT* catering to their every whim and need.

Hey, I'm just trying to tell you people that the market for such a thing for *anyone* on this platform is tiny at best.

Also, I *still* find it amusing that as long as this thread has been running, and I *know* some beskilled folks have looked in on it, NOT ONE OF THEM has said anything near like "Hell, we'll give it a shot."

Now, show me how wrong I am. Seriously. 3 guys saying "I'd buy that" backed up by 4 guys saying "Hey man, I got the cracked version running on VPC on OSX" is *not* encouraging.

So from the pov of an a-hole, and a developer a-hole to boot, I'll say:

"As soon as a *real* market for such a product emerges, and that market won't be a pain in the ass to support, then developing a DVD2one clone is worthless, considering the alternatives."



-K

[KaiCherry]

You'll note Casey, that my tone is a LOT nicer these days simply because of one thing:

D+ has been doing the job, for enough people to make it matter. It pays for its development and folks tell use everyday that its "right in there."

While it would be nice to have, the reality is your gonna get what you get...and the givers in this space all pretty much congregate in a couple of places and all of them know "what the people want."

I get daily affirmation of this

But like they used ta' say..."knowing is half the battle."

The question is, is it *worth* doing? You can prattle on all ya want, but folks that do the do know the real deal.

I mean I've actually contacted folks that know mpeg streams back and front, said, look, here is how its done.

"Not interested."

Lotta those. Truth is, the methodology for doing the DVD2One thing has been known *for ages*...its been PUBLISHED for the love of God. Oldest ref I found was dated back in the 90's...

So why *Hasn't* anyone done this?

-K

Kai is frustrated, he wants acknowledgment on his accomplishments... even if it isn't what his target demographic wants. 42 and Disco are nice but...

"but..." being the eternal question

[rockinsage]

Now, show me how wrong I am. Seriously. 3 guys saying "I'd buy that" backed up by 4 guys saying "Hey man, I got the cracked version running on VPC on OSX" is *not* encouraging.

Now Kai, you know I pay for the software I use. I know this probably wasn't directed at me, but I must admit that I had to find out for myself what all the dvd2one hype was about, so I gave it a try. And I have to say, wow, I'm impressed. Now, will I be using dvd2one in the future? Well, I don't even have a dvd burner! But if I ever do get one, I would absolutely pay for a Mac app that is similar to dvd2one.

In the meantime, I'm still backing up my disks to SVCD with 42...

Peace...

[TugBoat]

Truth is, the methodology for doing the DVD2One thing has been known *for ages*...its been PUBLISHED for the love of God. Oldest ref I found was dated back in the 90's...

So why *Hasn't* anyone done this?

Hummmm...

Let's see;

I've got one of those '97 $6,000 LapTops laying around here somewhere... It doesn't have a DVD drive. Even if it did, it couldn't play a DVD with that monster 250MHz G3. All computers now-days come with a DVD player and can easily play DVDs.

How long ago was it that a DVD burner cost $1,000? Not long. Now you can get one for $150. Set Tops? Now less than a $100. Two months ago I didn't even have a DVD burner.

DVD-Rs went for $10 a piece just a short while ago, I just got a 50 pack for about .85 cents a piece. Commercial DVD movies were pretty expensive when they first came out, Blockbuster now sells the pre-viewed ones for $9.99. But they're a little worn, so you need to back them up quick.....

Maybe no ones done it before 'cause there wasn't a demand

DVDs are steamrolling over VCRs and now everyone's getting players and burners. A couple of years ago there wasn't a demand for an App like DVD2one. Things can change in a hurry in the tech field. And yes, us consumers want everything RIGHT NOW! Not 10 hrs from now

Don't worry about the hackers, most of them wouldn't buy the products anyway. Some will use the hacked copy for awhile then buy it anyway. A lot people will buy the product, then give you free advertising when a friend asks "what's that". The demand for something like this is just beginning to mount. I don't see how you can lose since you say you're already halfway there with a working App. One things for sure, it's up to you.

[KaiCherry]

we'll see.

what i have is core code that is running on os x that performs the key function.

we'll see.

-K

[expo]

Kai, I'm not trying to be sarcastic and disrespect you in anyway. I admire your commitment in this issue. Believe me, the code you're in posess of is a small goldmine of yours.

As TugBoat is saying, the demand for an app such as DVD2one have arised in the last months. DVD2one was released Jan 23rd 2003, it showed us what DVD to DVD-R processing could be like. This is one and a half months ago.

People will always nag about little things. I'm totally satisfied with the functions present in DVD2one v1.0. (running on my stinky Inspirion, that I don't wanna use). No menus, no crap, just the basics would make me open my wallet widely.

I sincerely hope that you go for it. Good luck ( and I mean it! )

Cheers,
Expo

[CaseyComb]

Can someone explain in simple terms what I am missing if I use dvd2one as opposed to say something like 42. I saw something about B frames or something in this topic. Yeah like I know what the hell those are. Anyway after viewing this topic for the past two days I decided to try this magical little program called dvd2one. I used my PC for the entire process except for burning. Why might you ask? because I don't have VPC and there is no DVD Burner on my PC. SOOOOO... I dumped 3 movies I had ripped and converted them using DVD2ONE. I then transfered them to my external HD and put them on my mac to burn in Toast.

What can I say... I'm impressed.

1st one was 171 min w/5.1 Dolby digital
2nd one was 112 min w/ Mono Dolby Digital
3rd one was 97 min w/ 5.1 Dolby and 5.1 DTS Digital

They all looked near identical to their originals on my 32 inch Sony Vega flatscreen played from my Sony, Apex, and Sampo DVD Players.

If I'm missing something I can't see what it is and really isn't that what counts? The only real noticable pixelation was in a night scene in the 171 minute movie.

So what am I missing. This process was fairly painless (shockingly so) and may continue to do it this way until I get a DVD-R for my PC

[gefsmith]

Kai,
To have DVD2one on mac is something I would be willing to borrow beg and steal to pay for. Heck I'll even throw in one of my only driven to church on Sunday testis if it means that I can reduce a dvd in something less then it takes for the dvt to form in my leg as I recompress "the old fashioned way"

G

[rmassung]

After comparing DVD2one on a pc and running Disco+, I have found that I like Disco + better.

All of these apps, use compression and lose frames and things to get it on 1 DVD. I would much rather have a fully uncompressed backup on 2 DVD's (Unfortunately I have a job and can afford .79/piece DVD-R's)

I was thinking about it and it is like taping on a VCR, either in SP, best quality, but LOTR won't fit, or getting it on in SLP and it will, worse quality but it fits.

So I am gonna stay with Disco+ and could care less if I have on DVD or 2, at least I have the best quality and 5.1 sound. And most of all it is leagal because it keeps the Macrovision and CSS in.

later,

Rob

[AntnyMD]

Disco+ must have a way of defeating CSS because there is no way a consumer burner can re-burn the CSS key in the proper spot. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think you can leave Macrovision in a DVD rip that is subsequently crunched with DVD2One. You just can't leave it CSS encrypted.

Also I don't think DVD2One actually drops *frames* ... it only deletes portions of the group of pictures that makes up a series of frames.

[Eug]

Yeah, I just tried DVD2one's trial version with Contact, and I must say, I was impressed. Judging by the PC DVDRHelp forums, there are some problems with DVD2One of course, but overall the response has been positive.

Regardless if it's cheating or not, the video looks fairly good and it's FAST.

If I want a perfect quality backup, I'd probably just buy a new DVD, since presumably we all own these discs already anyway. :P I see little point in a program that splits a DVD into 2 discs for example. But for throwaway DVD5 backups (like for your screaming 4 year-olds), it seems DVD2One would be perfectly fine (assuming the disc is one that DVD2one is compatible with).

Now, I already have the capability of doing this with my standalone DVD recorder, but DVD2one offers the ability to maintain the audio tracks etc. and is almost as easy.

Basically, what I'm saying is that while many other programs are excellent and better for certain situations, I am quite impressed with DVD2one (based on what I've seen with the trial version).

[KaiCherry]

Here, in a nutshell, is the problem I'm faced with, personally:

Is this worthing doing, if the bar that has to be met, or surpassed, is DVD2One?

I say this because I know what I can *probably* acheive will be *close*.

But not on parity. There is nothing I can do to make it as fast; my estimates are about the same speed as D+ at this point.

Right there, I can already see cries of "Well, until i can do a DVD in 45 mins..."

etc.

It looks like this is actually acheivable; I won't really know for maybe 2-4 days...because there are technical problems that are involved with something like this that are *really* tricky.

HOWEVER...

The best you're gonna get out of this is 1 ac3 track, *maybe* 1 sub track and the video.

If this isn't "ganna cut it", tell me NOW so i stop wasting time *and money* pursuing this, and save some goodwil.

-K

[AntnyMD]

On my 667 TiBook in VPC, DVD2One takes 60 minutes to crunch 2 hours of movie. If what you're doing matches that, I won't experience any loss of time.

Since DVD2One lets you pick which audio and subs to keep, a Mac program should be able to that at a minimum, in addition to keeping Angle 1 in the title. Making it consistently crunch to 4.4gb or less is also a requirement. The option to dictate final size, as in DVD2One v 1.0.2 is not really necessary, as I've found it to be inconsistent. I tried to get it to crunch a couple movies to 690mb (a miniDVD sized crunch) and it routinely kept final file sizes over 1 gig.

[KaiCherry]

Lol

I love the requirements...

Heres what wou will most likely get, take/leave:

2x DVD2one time...sorry, its in C not assembler.

Main feature, AC3 Audio, perhaps a subpicture track (iffy, but doable...def will slow the roll)

Disco+ style chaptering

1 DVD-r

Thats the target. *IF* we can get past "Scary Video Problem Number 1"

*IF*.

I'll post later a 1GB size/time run with the slow engine, in both the "safe" and "not-so-safe" ranges

And no...you really can't see a diff in quality of video.

-K

[schmeg]

Kai,

Here's a vote for staying awake a little longer some night to get that subpicture track added to your Top Secret Project's list of features. A great majority of my DVDs have subtitles. I either have to convince you to find a way to add a subpicture track...

...or teach myself Chinese, French, Farsi, German, and Arabic so I can do without.

: )

[AntnyMD]

In all honesty, chaptering was always very important to me, and even reauthoring in DVD Studio Pro started to irk me precisely because I had to re-chapter everything. It bit. I started re-authoring discs without chapters at all because of it.

I'll reserve a final decision to see what you feel comfortable with releasing, but I already fear I'm going to say I'd rather you stick with improving the great forty-two.

[chandon]

Kai,

Whatever you do you will be well supported with good imput from many of your users (you know which posts to ignore) as well as financially. If you can pull this off it will be a great success for all. Thanks for all your time and dedication. We all trully appreciate all you have done to bring this type of software to the mac community.

thank you

chandon

[KaiCherry]

but I already fear I'm going to say I'd rather you stick with improving the great forty-two.

Wow...

Well I guess "something" isn't better than "nothing" eh?

As for forty-two, it appears that the userbase is fine with it the way it is ,from our vantage point.

We are kicking around ideas to improve it, but it really isn't a high priority project anymore, at least not for me at this time.

-K

[Thargok]

We are kicking around ideas to improve it, but it really isn't a high priority project anymore, at least not for me at this time.

Now you wouldn't be $aying that becau$e it i$ the free program now, would you?

[KaiCherry]

We are kicking around ideas to improve it, but it really isn't a high priority project anymore, at least not for me at this time.

Now you wouldn't be $aying that becau$e it i$ the free program now, would you?

Ahh...you must have missed that whole thing.

We made the decision not to spend any more time and money on dev'ing forty-two for awhile, due to the diminishing returns, financial, emotional, mental.

I don't even like *talking* about that program. Virtually all forty-two email is automatically forward out of my mailbox elsewhere to someone who supports it.

forty-two works for the developers, for what the developers wanted it to do and be. In our attempts to make others happy, we broke it twice, took *waaaaayyyyyy* too much abuse, and support for it never really got off the ground.

So its not being worked on for more than a few hours a week by me, or anyone else at this point. Thats all I can personally invest in forty-two anymore without becoming...unhappy about its very existance

It was a good idea to make an "iApp" for video conversion. It was a bad, bad idea to do it for free.

It may have been an even worse idea to do it on the Macintosh platform.

-K

[AntnyMD]

Wow...

Well I guess "something" isn't better than "nothing" eh?

Only in the sense that the "softened" PC program works quite well in VirtualPC already.

[KaiCherry]

Only in the sense that the "softened" PC program works quite well in VirtualPC already.

No biggie, cus unless we have a *major* breakthru in the next coupla days, it ain't gonna happen anyway...

-K

[zennman]

We are kicking around ideas to improve it, but it really isn't a high priority project anymore, at least not for me at this time.

Now you wouldn't be $aying that becau$e it i$ the free program now, would you? :wink:

I believe this comment proves Kai's point exactly. Well done!!! I believe Kai and company should move their focus away from this forum. Spread the word about their products, but stop giving support over this forum.

Let's let these guys produce a solid product. And stop spinning them out with all these types of post. They're working very hard for very little return.

My forty-two cents.

[gefsmith]

Kai,
Just so you know I am on the edge of my stool, praying for your breakthrough. You need a coffee, cash, backrub to help you develope this baby, let me know and I'm on the plane from Australia.

G

[TugBoat]

Ditto on the edge of the stool. I'm free for at least another week. If you need someone to test something, my dual 1.25 and TiBook are standing by.

[expo]

What's the status in project "We'll see"?

[toisanji]

I would be interested in maybe looking into it and helping with some of the programming. Can you contact me with more info?

Guess What?

I have code, in c, that this code is the basis/groundwork for something like DVD2One, that would do what DVD2One does.

[cut]

Its funny...damn near a month ago, I posted on this very forum, "Hey programmer guys, if any among ye' wanna do this DVD2One thing contact me."

No one has.

-K

[BernieR]

Ditto on the edge of the stool..

Well, you guys are lucky to be on the "edge" rather than in your stool!

Bernie

[expo]

But you see, you ignore all important point C) It has problems.

Like I said, no competent developers that I know are really interested in touching this; there are issues far and great involved with such a thing that Joe User doesn't understand, or want to understand.

"We just want DVD2One on OSX and we want it NOW!"

I think this whole excercise will be eductional to this "scene" as their pleas for help and support from PC evs fall on deaf ears.

I *know* PC Developers...I know what they think and how they feel about the Macintosh platform.

"Its not worth it *to us* to expend the same amount of resources for 3% of the computing world as we spend for the other 97% only to have a 5% return."

We're (us mac devs) are all you got, people and its about time someone had the ball-balls to stand up on their hind legs and tell y'all the truth.

Go to a WWDC, if you can...talk to some devs...the story is the same, over and over...

"Love the platform, Apple, when not screwing us, are great. The *users* otoh..."

:lowly I turn::

Again...if there is a competent programmer out there that wants in on this, we can talk. Since I've been shopping this around to the fellas, I can tell ya that its not really a priority among anyone to *do*...they just wanna know how it works, say "Yeah, thats what I thought too" then go back to what they are working on...

-K

You mac devs are all we got? Nobody will pay for it?
We just asked the PC devs kindly, and within a couple of weeks they had the core running on OS X. THAT is devs in good contact with it's audience. And BTW DVD2oneX is selling like hell.