Say hello to Blue Ray and bye bye to your current DVD writer

[mecg]

I LOVE this site!!! Come on - face it - we're the hackers, the computer weenies, etc. We live for this stuff. As soon as we figure out how to make a flawless dvd backup with a single click - we'll be bored stiff. It's the hunt, the thrill of the chase, and most of all - the bragging rights. The ability to do what most of the people around either can't do or don't have the patience (notice - I didn't say intelligence ) to do. Bring on the blue ray - we'll compress it beyond recognition and fit it on a floppy if we have to (just to see if it can be done). Someone once said "No one will ever need more than 640K of ram ". Heck, we're only talking about gigabytes when most of us on this site are dreaming in terabytes. Sorry - didn't mean to make it look like a chat room - simply put - they can't release this stuff fast enough to keep us happy

[sobriez]

Just look how fast DVD-Audio is knocking CD's off the shelves

[fravel]

When blue reaches the average home, they will come out with the yellow. Then when the yellow becomes affordable, they'll come out with the green, and when the green... and so on. It's a never ending story.

[defense]

BJ_M said

sure you can back up a dvd to this ... no problem ... but does it make sense to? i mean backing up a 24$ dvd to a 30$ disk doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me ...

I was just reading the article from the above link and it looks like those $30 disks can hold up to 23 GB's of information...WHOA! Being that is the case, it wouldn't be backing up "A" $24 movie to a $30 disk, but backing up anywhere between 5-7 movies to a $30 disk saving plenty of $$$$$. Even at the $30 for one disk, if you think about the trilogy's or movies that have 4 or 5 sequels, and think about putting all of them on a single disk, then it is worth it. At least to some, not to me, because I can put five movies on a total of $4.00 or so of blank DVD disks. But some people will think of it as taking those 5 movies and multiplying by $24 which gives you $120, then subtracting the $30 for the blank disk, which gives you a "SAVINGS" of $90. And not only savings, but the convenience and SPACE saving of 5 movies on a single disk.

[defense]

When blue reaches the average home, they will come out with the yellow. Then when the yellow becomes affordable, they'll come out with the green, and when the green... and so on. It's a never ending story.

Unless you're Dracula, then you'll be long dead by the time that ever happens. So don't worry about it, live for today and enjoy the AMAZING technology and innovations that are introduced and don't take such a dull approach and demeanor. 8)

[int_53185]

greetings fellow burners! i've been reading your posts with much amusement! LOL ....The predecessor to blu ray is already in development...my two cents....i dont think blu ray burners will be backward compatible with dvd;s or cd's.....bummer....cd development took 6 years...dvd development took 10....theyre just building on whats already been developed...so new technology will come faster than ever before....goody for us! when u think about it...blu ray isnt really any new technology....just a smaller wavelength laser enabling smaller track width....would be nice to put 10 movies on a disk though! int

[BJ_M]

BJ_M said

sure you can back up a dvd to this ... no problem ... but does it make sense to? i mean backing up a 24$ dvd to a 30$ disk doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me ...

I was just reading the article from the above link and it looks like those $30 disks can hold up to 23 GB's of information...WHOA! Being that is the case, it wouldn't be backing up "A" $24 movie to a $30 disk, but backing up anywhere between 5-7 movies to a $30 disk saving plenty of $$$$$. Even at the $30 for one disk, if you think about the trilogy's or movies that have 4 or 5 sequels, and think about putting all of them on a single disk, then it is worth it. At least to some, not to me, because I can put five movies on a total of $4.00 or so of blank DVD disks. But some people will think of it as taking those 5 movies and multiplying by $24 which gives you $120, then subtracting the $30 for the blank disk, which gives you a "SAVINGS" of $90. And not only savings, but the convenience and SPACE saving of 5 movies on a single disk. :wink:

yes -- your right , it will hold more MAYBE , but from what i read , it has to meet ATSC specs .. which means min. of 720p @ 19meg/s data rate ... maybe 480p also ... but really the standard is 720p or 1080i right now ... so max 2 hours per disk give or take 30 minutes ...

we really need more info ...

[fravel]

defense wrote: "Unless you're Dracula, then you'll be long dead by the time that ever happens. So don't worry about it, live for today and enjoy the AMAZING technology and innovations that are introduced and don't take such a dull approach and demeanor."

No, I'm not taking a dull approach. It's a reality we live everyday. It's just my point of view, friend. As Dracula I have lived long enough to see how the world evolves (That makes me a senior citizen, no?). I hope you are right and blue stays for eons to come. By the way, what's your blood type? As I was getting accostumed to blood type B and O+, yesterday I received notice that blood G and H will be coming out soon.
Greetings.

[Cole]

Just look how fast DVD-Audio is knocking CD's off the shelves

Wot? That empty shelf in the corner of HMV that nobody goes near? In the meantime the real hi-fi buffs are sticking with vinyl.

Unless you're Dracula, then you'll be long dead by the time that ever happens. So don't worry about it, live for today and enjoy the AMAZING technology and innovations that are introduced and don't take such a dull approach and demeanor.

Live for today and enjoy the technology but only if one has got loads of dosh to spend. I agree with Fravel, as the situation is snowballing somewhat. Cassette tape and Vinyl dominated for years then CD has had a good run as did VHS; DVDs - if you take the title of this particular subject - seems to be over already and (in years) it didn't even get to double figures. <sigh> I just think that I have got to get a bigger cabinet to fit all of these different formats in and in about ten years time, buy a new house.

[defense]

No, I'm not taking a dull approach. It's a reality we live everyday. It's just my point of view, friend. As Dracula I have lived long enough to see how the world evolves (That makes me a senior citizen, no?). I hope you are right and blue stays for eons to come. By the way, what's your blood type? As I was getting accostumed to blood type B and O+, yesterday I received notice that blood G and H will be coming out soon.
Greetings.

lol...ok, fair enough, but I do understand that technology is continuously advancing at warp 5 speed. I think you have to look at "how" though. I mean DVD was a HUGE break through from VHS from not only the amount it could hold, but more importantly, the resolution and quality. The same with CD and Cassette. When you take a look at this technology, it doesn't have the SAME dramatic affect because the quality is still going to be the same as DVD now as far as I know.

The benefit is being able to store MUCH information on a single disk. But because of price I would think that people who don't just have the money to throw away would not even consider blu-ray right now. I know it said you can store high definition satellite of up to two hours and i'm not sure how that quality differs from DVD but I would think it's about the same.

Anyway, even with that, the difference between blu-ray and blu-ray's price and our current red-ray and red-ray's price, the difference between the two for what you get in my opintion is FAR from worth it. The difference between VHS and Casette to CD & DVD is like different planets.

Anyway, the bottom line is that yes, there will always be something else, but the idea is to enjoy what is here now as opposed just taking a lethargic approach and saying, well, there will be a playstation 3 so I won't play or buy the PlayStation 2 or any of its games and enjoy them now because i'm just gonna wait for the future. Enjoy the technology now and be thrilled of the rapid advancements and innovations in technology.

[energy80s]

I think that what most people here are missing is that VHS is still supreme as far as home entertainment is concerned. DVD recorders haven't started to make their way into people's homes - once they look at the price of the machine and the discs and how little they can store on the discs they are still sticking with VHS for most applications. Blue Ray has the potential to change all this ... but the marketing and the price will have to be just right, otherwise it will end up being another DAT format (only used in professional circles).

Although Sony are marketing this as a high definition recorder, the majority of the world doesn't have Hi-Def TV and won't have for at least 15 years! So that is a white elephant. Where this will take off will be with the release of BlueRay/RW discs - and that is probably another year away.

[MrSnake]

Based on the price, I'd say "Bye bye Blue Ray and see you in a couple of years".

It needs to cost $500 or less if they want it to become the standard.
As long as it can't be produced for the masses it'll never become standard.

MrSnake

[miketree]

I really hope that we are not heading for a "every year a new format" scenario. It just seems to me that new formats are being pumped out before the previous one has been established. History I think prooves the point as there are formats that lay waste for whatever reason: eight track cartridges, Betamax, Laserdisc, Minidisc etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dvd was released in 1995. It's now 2003 - That's nearer to a decade than a year.

[Earthbulb]

Most of your average punters on the street still see DVD's as the cutting edge, blu ray isnt going to make any real impact for at least 5 years, theres just too many people who have bought DVD players and recorders over the last 2 years to suddenly just dump it for something else.

Inevitably something will overtake DVD as it doesnt offer enough storage for the longer term, but im not sure blu ray is the format ? i see 27 gigs as already limiting when you start talking about high bitrate footage.

Later
Adam

[ember]

Will they be supporting VCD?

[Gazorgan]

HDVD

That's my vote for a name. You did note the 2+ hours of HDTV recording? So basically your going to get a HDTV version of a movie on a disk. Talk about CCE versus TMPG encoding times when the resolution is 2048x1024 progressive :P

[sammie]

I was wondering if anyone else had been thinking about that Gazorgan The idea of encoding 25 gigs of mpeg2 brings back a shiver of the bad old days of 3+ day encodes.

[Bc-Zero]

On an off topic, there is DVHS. Hollywood is trying to push that format the most as it can not be duplicated. Therefore, since I'm a cheap bastard I would never invest in it, but since they are trying top push it a DVHS machine retails for $1500 CAD. Movies going for $65 a pop, but it's got the best quality of video and audio out there right now, and videophiles will definately invest. The quality on it is amazing at 1080i (I think, standard) it will be able to give a better quality movie than blu-ray will (I assume, it would be nice to have more specs on it). Therefore I think any market that blu-ray would have would be edged out by DVHS and a simple dvd recorder.

Just my opinion.

[baker]

I think I said this a long time ago when blue ray was first annopunced but we are just been put back in our place

dvd=blue ray
SVCD=dvd
vcd=vhs

I don't know if that made any sense.... my minds a bit blown today

If you do a search for my name and the previouse blue-ray post you will see what I mean....

I think
Baker

[fravel]

I would like to lay my hands on one of those blue, too. What I meant was that things are changing too fast. Let's think how much money has been spent in DVD recorders and media in less than two years time. And, yes, we are going to spend a lot more in the forthcoming recorders and media.
Cheers!

[energy80s]

Let's think how much money has been spent in DVD recorders and media in less than two years time.

Probably not as much as you would think. I STILL don't know of anyone with a DVD burner or standalone DVD recorder. They are far from common place. I am planning on buying a DVD burner soon (though they are still too damned expensive - I can really only afford something in the $200 range and having just seen the AO5 go for $560 I think I'll have a long wait!!) and it looks as if I will be the first out of all my friends to buy one!

Likewise, did CD Audio Recorders ever take off in the States? They are still a novelty here.

[rhegedus]

Just what are these ~20Gb disks going to hold? All current films fit quite nicely onto a 9Gb disk except for the odd one or two which have an 'extras' dvd - let's face it, the film companies could probably squeeze both onto one if they really tried. Are we going to have half full blue-ray disks or will they just fill the rest up with even more 'watch once only' extras? I may be naive (go on......you know you want to!), but unless there is a radical move towards even higher film quality than dvd can already offer then blue-ray will be going nowhere fast. (but then I did think that the internet would go nowhere too! )

Regards,

Rob

[hothandiman]

The high capacity is for high definition content. These 20+ gig disks will hold 2+ hours of HDTV content. Alternately they could store 3 or 4 DVD quality movies.

[rhegedus]

OK, but wouldn't this mean people buying HDTVs in large quantities in the first place?

Regards,

Rob

[Thorn]

On the topic of if this will get a foothold: This is a NEW technology. It's at the cutting edge of commercial technology(won't even available in the US at first), so for those who aren't in the market for high-end equipment *of course* it seems way too expensive. How many of you bought CD burners when they cost $6k? Or DVD burners when they cost $18k? How many of you even knew they existed then? Both of these technologies have netted manufacurers billions in sales despite the fact that a huge segment of the population is oblivious to the fact that they're available. Then again there are people who don't own TV's at all, so you expect that many people don't adopt technology even within several decades if its invention.

You can measure success as making a product commercially successful, or in it's ability to usurp the current standard for home entertainment. Yes, the home entertainment market is huge, but then again it's big enough to support the VHS and DVD formats simultaneously (while VHS is being phased out... So it could probably support BRD discs once enough people own HDTVs and can take advantage of the superior resolution.

All this anecdotal "evidence" that BRD won't catch on just because the average joe doesn't understand or think they need it is simply irrelevant. We aren't looking at a one year transition period, we're looking at 5 years or more. First the technology has to be invented, then it has to seep into the market. By the time you see best buy advertising it you know that it has started to take on the mass market, and you can start your clock.

[mazinz]

i remember seeing a few years back a dvd recorder for the pc (pretty sure it was a pioneer drive) and then (1996 or 97) the add said NEW LOW PRICE $16,000 YIKES!!!!

Blue ray will still have a while to fully take off but lets face one thing, most of us are doing video archiving and dvd can match the video source at mostly 99% of the time. Even if blueray takes over with its extremely high end bitrate, video can only look so good.

[Da_Bears]

Blu Ray will take a loooong time before it catches on with Joe Consumer, because many people even as we speak are still (or have just) reluctantly making the switch to DVD. That Blu Ray offers more storage space will mean nothing to these people who are likely content that their new DVD player already plays discs that store an entire movie. What is the incentive to switch up? And remember, I am not talking about you or I who would kill for this storage.

The only benefit of blu ray will be for actual data storage for most people. There are not enough people interested in "backing up" or archiving home videos to even really propel the sale of current DVD burners. Those of us who read these forums are among a verrrrry tiny minority of consumers.
-v20

I am not so sure about it taking so long. Sony is thinking that the PS3 will be using the BluRay disc. That would be the start of recording and then it will only be a matter of time before someone starts putting movies onto them to play on the PS3. It could become quickly popular especially with the possilities of what you can do. Imagine multiple movies and games on one disc.

[solarfox]

When blue reaches the average home, they will come out with the yellow. Then when the yellow becomes affordable, they'll come out with the green, and when the green... and so on.

Actually... no, they won't. The next step after Blue-Ray would have to be Violet-Ray, or maybe Ultraviolet-Ray, since to increase the capacity of the disc you have to decrease the pit size and the wavelength of the laser used to read them. Yellow and green light has a longer wavelength than blue (though shorter than the red which DVD's use).

And after that, would come X-Ray (X-Ray-Ray?), Gamma-Ray, and Cosmic-Ray... assuming anyone can figure out how to make a semiconductor laser at those frequencies!

[Nitemare]

Hi gang!

Just thought I'd weigh in with my thoughts. Blu-ray sounds awesome but I have to wonder, (regarding movies...not data), what's the point? Look at DVDs, for instance. I love many of the "extra features" of DVDs but think that most of them are a waste of time. All that space available on the DVD and look at the crap they fill it with!

Other consumers I've spoken with largely agree, and many of the posters in these forums are perfectly happy to rip ONLY the movies off of a DVD.

I'm all for technology, but when it's done only for it's own sake without any REAL practical application, then it's a complete waste of time and money. Especially considering the end results of such technology.

For example... I've been told over and over how DVD will replace VHS. Has this happened? No. Will it happen? Probably not. Why? In my own opinion it is this... one scratch on a DVD and the disc is worthless. I can beat the crap out of a VHS tape and it just keeps on playing. Yeah, it's less quality, but it PLAYS. I'd never trust my home movies to anything else ... although DVD copies of my tapes are fine... I'd never pitch the tapes.

Now blu-ray is coming along. Smaller "scorches" on the same sized disc. Sounds great, although looking at the practical side of this, doesn't this just scream BAD IDEA to anyone else? Don't get me wrong, I love technology and my nipples stiffen at the thought of a 23-gig disc... but newer technology is not always better.

Consider this... average life span of stored data on a;
floppy disk---5 to 10 years
cd-rom---30 to 50 years
acid free paper---300-400 years!

2 hours of HDTV per blu-ray disc? ... don't get me started! Most people I know don't have time to watch TV. I still get pissed about paying for cable when I could have TV for FREE with an antennae ... but the kids just GOTTA have their Cartoon Network, you know? Digital cable and HDTV are a joke to working class people (i.e. consumers). Already our cable company is making the price of "regular cable" undesirable in order to push these new (and IMHO, worthless) formats they wasted millions developing. Conversely, satellite dish and TV antennae sales are on the rise... why? The markets really ARE consumer driven... despite the cable company's attempts to force their product.

So first CDs were going to replace vinyl... and they almost did but vinyl is currently making a huge comeback. E-books will replace regular books. Now DVDs are going to replace VHS ... HAH! Never happen (although I LOVE the DVD format anyway). Now blu-ray is going to bump DVD? No way. I believe they might peacefully co-exist... but blu-ray will never bump DVD. I doubt it can even bump VHS. VHS is like acid free paper... the Timex of all video formats!

Don't get me wrong... I'm ALL FOR technology! Microwave ovens are awesome. Electric heat is nice. Lights at the touch of a button are brilliant! I even love DVD quality movies... you know... before I rip them SVCDs.

Technology with purpose is a wonderful tool. Rapidly evolving bur poorly thought out technology have resulted in the 24hour/day-7day/week infomercial that USED to be the internet. (this site is a wonderful exception) I'm sorry... I just can't get excited about blu-ray technology. I ask again... What's the point? You've SEEN what's been done with DVDs ... what kind of crap will go on a blue-ray disc? Audio commentary by the director's 3rd grade teacher? So... like DVDs and cable... I'd get to pay extra for all of the stuff I plan to ignore or can't use. Got it.

I think Blu-ray technology is dead in the consumer market already. There's just no practical need for it. Of course I'd be happy to beta test one of those machine though.

[boss]

One interesting thought.. will anyone really be bothered about replacing their dvd's with Blu-ray discs?
one of the reasons cd's and dvd's took off was because everbody wanted their fav albums and films in pristine digital qaulity. but going from dvd to blu-ray is not as big a jump as vhs to dvd was. i won't be buying my favourite films on blu-ray if i already have the dvd. dvd qaulity is good enough for me. I don't think many other people will be rushing out to buy films on Blu-ray if they own the dvd's either, which will mean low sales...
And besides, only 2 hours of hi-def video.. so a 3 hour film would end up being a blu-ray flipper?