Why is DVD+R better than DVD-R? I dont understand?

[version20]

DRM applies only to the digital file itself. It has nothing to do with +R/RW.
That is, the only way your DVD is going to have DRM encryption or security is if you decide to add a secured/encrypted file to it.

It seems the person above is attempting to assert that the actual blank +R/RW itself will be purchased with some sort of encryption merely because Microsoft is on the + board.

The fact is, DRM (which happens to be an MS technology) and Microsoft being on the +R/RW board are two seperate issues. DRM can make its way onto -R/-RW just as easily as it could onto the + format (and again, either way, you would have to choose to burn the encrypted files onto it).

-v20

[version20]

I also bought three packs of the same 4x media or 15 discs. In my case all 15 were defective in that they had tiny voids or bubbles at the edge of the discs They worked only if the recorded files were less than 3.9GB anything after that and I got errors or the burn would just stop.

Chalk it up to bad luck. Mine can be burnt to capacity without a problem.
Verbatim makes excellent media. They also make -R media which I would also buy if it made sense price/speed wise. (Suggest as above - contacting Verbatim and having the discs replaced).

Whichever medium works for you +/- is the only factor that can be taken into consideration. All other information I have seen on here so far is 100% opinion. Neither one is clearly superior, neither one is likely to be going away.

I dont understand the defensive attitude so many people are adopting towards + OR - , if its working for you...go burn and enjoy it.

-v20

[vice86]

Thanks for all the informative info guys. I'm sure I'll be bugging you for some more help as I continue to experiment with the back up process.

Oh, since the start of this thread I ended up getting a Cendyne wrapped Pioneer A05...so far so good!

[Bob W]

Thanks for all the informative info guys. I'm sure I'll be bugging you for some more help as I continue to experiment with the back up process.

Oh, since the start of this thread I ended up getting a Cendyne wrapped Pioneer A05...so far so good!

Where does one buy the Cendyne in the states?

[vice86]

As far as local stores in my area, Staples and Office Max carry Cendynes that are actually Pioneer drives...but I read that Cendyne actually uses 3 other vendors drives also...you have to look at the model number on the back of the box to be sure.

I just recently purchased a Cendyne 52X CDRW which was actually a LiteOn drive like I wanted...actually the first time i bought it and didnt look at the model number on the back and it was a generic drive...brought it back to Office Max and found an LTR model and got that one.

[tjrueberg]

Just me talking out loud...... I bought a pioneer burner for $240 and packs of 50 DVD-R for $56. I know the drives and disks can be had for less. My point is this, I've been enjoying my DVD-R's with satellite movies, digital8 and VHS transfers for quite some time. If DVD+ wins so what? my DVD-R's will still play and if I want to get a DVD+ burner for $100 I will. It simply does not matter.

While there are Ford and Chevy (or Chevy and Ford) style arguments I will be watching the movies. VHS v.s. BETA was an actual quality argument (ok it was more but....). As far as I know my DVD is 720x480 on both formats.

[miamicanes]

Just a sidenote: While VHS 'won', from a specification standpoint, Beta was superior

In a way, Beta ultimately won by mutating into VHS.

Remember how awful VHS VCRs were back in the 80s, when hitting ff or rew caused them to go, "pause chucka chucka chucka screech schreech (ff or rew)"? They did it because patents held by Sony with Beta forced JVC to feed the tape in what was probably the worst, most rube goldberg-esque way possible (like a "M" or "W", depending on how you want to look at it).

Then, right around 1987, Sony threw in the towel on Beta as a consumer format, and licensed the "helical scan" patent (that allowed the tape to be threaded around the drum as a "U" rather than as a "M") to VHS manufacturers. Slowly, VHS acquired Beta-like convenience, and the format war was over. I remember it quite well, because I was still in high school and burned $800 on one of the first models available (by Canon). Yeah, I had *LOTS* of fun showing it off to my jealous friends, who couldn't believe a VHS VCR could actually have Beta-like tape handling.

Happily, it's one of the few exhorbitantly expensive purchases I made that I *didn't* end up regretting. It served me well until it finally died in '97 or '98. If I remember correctly, it wasn't until 89 or 90 that helical scan went from being an exotic, expensive feature to "just the way it's done" (kind of like HQ).

[Mythos2002]

You forget that beta was also very very expensive.

Actually both formats were selling for similar prices. It was purely the video equipment rental chains that won the arguement ... even though Betamax were the first to offer longer recording times, the first to go stereo and to offer the highest quality pictures (VHS HQ wasn't introduced until 1984 to try and compete with the already superior Beta pics.)

Beta was also very proprietary. As far as I know, there weren't any other brands of Beta machines besides Sony. Also, Sony only allowed a few manufacturers to make the tapes while many more companies made VHS tapes. I went with VHS back then because you could record 6 hours instead of 4. I was very young when I bought my first VCR and didn't care much about pristine quality.

I've never owned a Beta, but I liked what I saw. Someone said there was no quality difference, but I definitely saw that the picture was better on my friend's Beta machine than it was on my comparibly priced VHS machine from Sony (my third VCR).

Beta is not totally dead. Some news companies still use industrial Beta machines for their tapes. Although, I think most will switch to some kind of digital format soon.

As far as the +R -R issue. I really don't know much about it or what burner to buy. I finally have enough to buy the Sony DRU-500AX, but I have been waiting as I'm having trouble justifying $350.00+tax US compared to $140-$200 for a -R burner (CenDyne). My two DVD Players are the Toshiba SD-3108 and the Pioneer DV-525. I wouldn't be surprised if the Toshiba wouldn't play either since it never plays any VCD's I make, even though I think the manual says it will. My Pioneer plays them with no problem. I was trying to think for the future as I know at some point my DVD Players will die and need replaced.

Are their any real technical advantages of +R minus the 4x writing speed and compatibility? Does it allow for better menus or something? I'm just trying to find something more concrete.

Also, how foolish would it be to buy a -R burner now and buy a +R or dual one in a couple of years when the prices drop? That is what I have been debating. I hate to have to buy two burners as I don't upgrade that often. I used a 4x Yamaha SCSI CD Burner from 1999 until this past May. The only reason I bought a new 32x Burner was because I built a new computer (AMD 1.6Ghz as compared to a P166MMX which still works, but is only used for nostalgic purposes like playing DOS games or something craxy like that).

I definitely wouldn't waste my money on a sole +R burner as all the ones I have seen cost $300.00. Might as well buy the Sony +R/-R for $50.00 more. I do have one last question.

Does anyone know if the DRU-500AX will go down in price anytime soon or if Pioneer will make a dual format burner? I actually prefer Pioneer. I would ask which -R burner to get, but I can read the reviews from the link on the side. Are the CenDyne's as good as the Pioneer's? I ask because they seem to be related. Thanks.

Mythos

[monoxide77]

i own a DVD-R burner and I am very happy with it. The discs even play in my very picky Samsung player. I can't comment on DVD+R burners because I honestly have never used one. I am happy with the compatibility of my DVD-R and i have no urge to switch over.

[solarfox]

Are their any real technical advantages of +R minus the 4x writing speed and compatibility? Does it allow for better menus or something? I'm just trying to find something more concrete.

Actually, it's the -R format which has 4X write speed, not +R. Leaving that aside:

As far as "better menus" or whatever -- this is solely a function of your authoring software; neither +R nor -R can allow for anything that the standard DVD-Video specification doesn't support, and will allow anything that the spec does support. Whether or not the authoring software you're using will allow you to make full use of the specification is another matter entirely.

Also, how foolish would it be to buy a -R burner now and buy a +R or dual one in a couple of years when the prices drop? That is what I have been debating. I hate to have to buy two burners as I don't upgrade that often.

Why would you need to buy another burner at all? Despite the rather ludicrous assertions of some in the +R(W) camp, the -R(W) format is not -- I repeat, not going away anytime soon. If you can get a good price on the -R(W) unit, and can't afford the premium price of the dual-format models, then go ahead and get the -R(W) burner. Two years from now, it'll still work, and you'll still be able to get blank media for it, and the discs will still play in set-top DVD units.

Although depending on how many discs you burn in the next two years, it might need replacing anyway... Optical-disc burners (of any variety) aren't immortal; the semiconductor lasers are typically only good for so many hours of writing. (On the other hand, the MTTF figure is for something like 10,000 hours of writing, which ought to last you for a while!)

[LanEvo7]

I don't feel that DVD+R or DVD-R is superior to each other in anyway. Well except price. DVD-R less expensive than DVD+R in the drive itself and the media. You can get a rebadged A05 for about $200 and its the fastest drive out on the market(provided you use 4x media of course). Most DVD+R cost close to $300, and dual formats costs $350. Most people that buy the sony dual burn DVD-R anyways because there is inexpensive quality media for it. Just buy the DVD-R right now, if and when DVD+R win the war, get a DVD+R drive that burns at an even faster speed. Right now, it looks like both will be around for at least two years before it is totally faded out.

[miamicanes]

Does the fact that +R doesn't impose an artificial distinction between "consumer" and "authoring" discs have any practical relevance? Is there anything consumers might want to do with recordable discs that DVD-R burners will (could/are supposed to) prevent with "consumer" discs that DVD+R burners will freely permit?

Sometimes, it seems, forsaking an official stamp of approval might be a GOOD thing if obtaining it requires selling one's soul in the process. Does anyone think ATI capture cards and drivers would even NOTICE, let alone care, about Macrovision if the terms of their license agreement with the DVD forum didn't FORCE ATI to actively look for it and refuse to capture such content?

As far as I can tell, this isn't something that makes any practical difference today anyway. On the other hand, *IF* the DVD consortium had successfully imposed some DRM trojan horse upon DVD-R that DVD+R escaped, I think it's safe to say the computer hardware market would have abandoned DVD-R overnight.

[midwestarts]

The new Sony burners burn to both formats! Get one of those and you don't have to worry. Then buy whatever media is cheapest at the time. In stores + is usually cheaper and online - is usually cheaper (generic).

[Mythos2002]

Thanks for all of the info. I'm seriously planning on getting the CenDyne (Pioneer) DVR-105 once I can find a good deal on one. Unfortunately, I missed the awesome deal that OfficeMax had for $250.00 with a $50.00 rebate. They are $270.00 now. Staples has them, but they are $300.00 minus price matching. I actually looked at the CenDyne box and the product code matches the Pioneer product codes since they are in fact Pioneer players. That was something I didn't know until today.

I have one last question. This is all theoritical. If I make a -R DVD now, can that content be copied back to the hard drive in the future and be rerecorded on a +R DVD? I just want to make sure I'm covered if I find that I have to replace my -R burner with a +R one if none of my future DVD Players play -R. I believe you and don't think that would happen, but I also like to be safe. My bad experience with my Sony DVD-ROM Drive has made me more reluctant to plunk down $350.00 for another Sony optical drive. I believe Sony is a good company, but I think Pioneer beats Sony when it comes to certain areas and vice versa. Thanks.

Mythos

[LanEvo7]

Of course. DVD-Video is basically just data. It doesn't care what format its in. You would have to rip the vobs and reburn it onto dvd+r.

[energy80s]

Beta is not totally dead. Some news companies still use industrial Beta machines for their tapes. Although, I think most will switch to some kind of digital format soon.

Actually Beta in the professional arena has been digital since about 1994. I work for the BBC and we have just bought two new Digibeta 790 camcorders for a poxy 40 grand each, and use Beta SX exclusively for news gathering. Other media organisations use DVC Pro, although it isn't as robust as DigiBeta and isn't backwards compatible with Beta SP.

[ima2hd]

I bought the Sony Dru 500ax to solve that problem for $300 delivered. So I would not be unpset if one format failed. I hate dilemma's I'd suggest buying this drive yourself. Best Regards

[solarfox]

Does the fact that +R doesn't impose an artificial distinction between "consumer" and "authoring" discs have any practical relevance? Is there anything consumers might want to do with recordable discs that DVD-R burners will (could/are supposed to) prevent with "consumer" discs that DVD+R burners will freely permit?

None whatsoever. DVD+R is basically equivalent to DVD-R(General); it too lacks the ability to record CSS encryption keys and such, making a 1:1 copy of a commercial disc impossible without the rip-and-reencode process.

The reason DVD+R isn't split between General and Authoring is that the DVD+R format was developed solely for the consumer market, and was never intended to be used for authoring DVD masters for mass duplication.

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[-jsl-]

First you make complaints that the site "dvdplusrw.org" is full of "rubbish and lies" and the next moment you write this complete BS yourself. Well, at least you got a vivid imagination...
And please, explain how the fact that Microsoft has joined DVD+RW Alliance will stop users from backing up DVD movies to DVD+R/RW media?

Hi Jsl

Yep I talk complete rubbish don't I, and Microsoft's involvement with the +RW Alliance is just because Bill Gates has a free day a week!

Still I wasn't surprised to hear Microsoft meddling more in DVD, and an attempt at introducing its own format that plays on a PC only, that they can then tie people down with their Digital Rights Management all wrapped up in Windows Media Player. Of course very handy if they can also get low level access to recordable DVD formats in order to lock down copying!! So still a good thing for +RW having Microsoft on the board?

Enjoy the read.

http://webplus.dvd-recordable.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=39...rder=0&thold=0


Regards

Philip

If that's the best you could come up with in 2 months for answering my question then I can only laugh But yeah, M$ releasing a high resolution WM9 version of T2 will surely stop users from backing up DVD's to DVD+R/RW (sarcasm)...
BTW if you link to an article then link to the original source not some lame site that steals articles without telling the source.

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn