Capturing Video from my DV camcorder

[DaveKlassix]

I'm new to this, so bear with me. Ive been trying to capture video off my DV camcorder (Canon ZR45), and I've been using Ulead Videostudio 6 to this, simply because it captures in mpeg2 format ready to burn to a DVD. The problem is, when playing back video thats been captured, if there isn't much/any camera movement, the video appears fine. However, when the camera moves around in the scene, the video becomes extremely blocky (kinda like playing avideo game on the Atari 2600). Obviously, I must have some capture setting screwed up somewhere, but I don't know where. ANy suggestions? Or better yet, any better apps for capturing to DVD-Ready MPEGS? Ssceanyler and M$ movie maker only seem to capture to AVI.

kthx

[vhelp]

daveklassix,

depending on the scene's complexities (moviements/items) you will have more
or less blocks or artifacts during camera panning. The one main caues of
such issues is Interlace. It's true that MPEG-2 has support for Interlace,
but it does not mean that it will "remove" the blocks or artifacts. It will
not. Depending on the level of bitrate used, you will see have these issues.

The ONLY and TRUE'ly way of reducing these blocks to near ZERO, IS to
de-Interlace the source during MPEG-2 encoding. If you do not, then, as I
said above, depending on the level of bitrate you use in your encode, you
will see blocks/artifacts, and the level of these will also depend on the,
again, your scene's complexities (movements/items) in your project.

Just remember, that when you are SHOOTING footage through your camera's lens,
that your final source will be Interlaced - period!
About the only problem w/ performing a de-Interlace on your footage, weather
for PC viewing or not, is:
* How you performs it (best method)
* what route are you willing to take for your "final" end product.

About the only suggestion I can make for you, is to practice NOT moving
your camera as much or as fast, and use a tripod, and don't make any sudden
jerks etc, and do use plenty of light (if inside)

Oh, and by the way, I have the Canon ZR-10 model.
Good luck.
-vhelp

[Tommyknocker]

Or, you can go ahead and capture at the highest quality your system can support, then use TMPGEnc's Inverse Telecine function to remove/correct your interlacing.

[sandipdas]

Hi,

Can anyone please help to How to de-Interlace step by step. I have the same problem as DaveKlassix.

I have tried with TMPGEnc's Inverse Telecine function, could not help me. Actually there are so many options when I righclick I got confused. What to do there?

Why this is happening? Is it that I don't have the right codec installed in my machine or what? Anyway I have SONY TRV50.

Thanks

Sandip

[pijetro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just in case deinterlacing doesn't work (by removing a field, you've basically cut the resolution in half), why don't you capture in .AVI, and let an outside encoder (Tmpgeng or CCE) fix this problem for you, by doing a proper job. If it takes four hours to convert to .MPG correctly, what makes you think that using Ulead will do a quality on-the-fly conversion??

If you're still of the opinion that capturing straight to .MPG is the easiest way, then try to capture at 352x240. Interlace won't be an issue.

Good luck.....

[sandipdas]

No No No, I am capturing it in a .AVI file through Firewire. Then I tried to convert it in a mpeg format by Tmpgeng but I got the same result.

Do I have to set some specific setting in the Tmpgeng? I capture it in a Type 1, 720x480, should be some Microsoft OpenDML codec. Actually I am in my office now so unless I go home I can not give you the actual setting of AVI.

Let me know.

Thanks

Sandip

[fingernailX]

1. REVERSE TELECINING IS NOT INTERLACING
2. IF YOU HAVE A PROGRESSIVE OR 24P MODE DV CAMCORDER WHAT YOU SHOOT THROUGH THE LENS IS NOT INTERLACED.

read http://www.100fps.com to learn more than you need to know about interlacing.

Video displayed on a 'normal' NTSC tv will be interlaced even if you are playing a dvd from a progressive scan player. The display is incapable of displaying a non-interlaced signal. A 'normal' computer monitor will display the telltale jagged lines of interlacing when displaying an interlaced source as a 'normal' dv.avi (WMP using the direct show filter playback of a dv.avi will attempt to deinterlace on the fly during playback) This is all very well demonstrated with still pics at the above site. Telecining is the process of replaying frames from a 24 fps source on a 29.97 NTSC or 25 PAL fps display (or more accurately preparing the source to be able to do so).

Unless you are going to be encoding to Divx or Xvid you can leave your source interlaced and playback your MPEG 1 or 2 on the computer with PowerDVD which deinterlaces on the fly and gives you choices of bob or weave. With Divx you can deinterlace with the codec at encode time or with virtualdub via a filter. IMHO it just compresses better than a non-interlaced source. If you watch output from your computer on a LCD/DLP projector then everything needs to be deinterlaced (again my opinion)

Here's another link to an old site about deinterlacing and some people's claims http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/interlace-test.htm

[sandipdas]

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I will goto the site you suggested. When I capture I usually used Microsoft DV AVI, Type 1, DV Encoder, 720x480, 29.97, NTFS format. Is there any solution to my problem if I used any other encoder.

I guess this problem is not only mine but all others who uses the above setting which comes with Ulead 6 SE. How they overcome the problem. Or is this problem only with me? And what will be solution.

Actually I want make the .AVI file to X(s)vcd and later Mpeg2 and want to watch in my Sony Standalone DVD Player to my Sony TV.

Anyway, now I am going to go to sites you suggested.

Thanks

Sandip

[yg1968]

I am a little perplexed. Am I to understand that the consensus is that you should not de-interlace DV if your goal is to play the video on a TV?

[sandipdas]

Hi yg1968,

I really don't understand you. If I don't then the picture is very bad from DVD to TV. Then what should I do.

Sandip

[sandipdas]

Hi fingernailX,

I had gone to sites you suggested and I will give it a try today If I found time. Now, I know what is happening to my recorded picture.

Thanks a lot.

Sandip

[yg1968]

I could be wrong but I am guessing that de-interlacing will create more problems than it solves.

I would suggest the following:

First, realtime encoding is not the answer.

Secondly, I would use a fairly high bitrate for home videos. The more movement that you have the higher bitrate that you need. Home videos require a high bitrate because of the high movement of the camcorder during filming. CBR of 8k may not be overkill in this situation. You can also try CQ at 75% with a bitrate varying from 5k to 8k.

Third, I would maintain the 720x480. I would not reduce it to 352x480. Resizing will likely reduce the quality (especially for interlaced video).

Fourth, I would try using TMPEnc instead of the Ulead mpeg encoder.

Fifth, select bottom field first in TMPGEnc.

Lastly, judge the results on your TV. Interlaced stuff never looks very good on a computer (even if you use a program like PowerDVD which de-interlaces the video upon playback on your computer; it still doesn't look as good as it will on your TV).

[sandipdas]

I have a different problem now. I can not open my .AVI file in Virtualdub. It comes with an error like this

"Could not decompressor for format 'dvsd' (unknown). Virtualdub require a video for windows (VFW) compatibale codec to decompressor video".

What I know Virtualdub does not accept type 1 video.

I can open the same AVI in TMPGEnc.

I have other AVI movies downloaded from the web. I can open those in Virtualdub without any problem.

How to solve this?

One more thing. When I try to capture as .AVI file from Ulead 6 SE Basic (came with the firewire card), in the project template I chose Microsoft AVI files with codec and whenever I chose AVI from the dropdown combobox in the Ulead, automatically it changes to DV. I have three options DV, AVI, MPEG. Mpeg works fine.

What ever setting I chose after the capture if I saw the properties of the AVI file I see like this.

Microsoft AVI Files -- OpenDML
29.970
3512.11 KBPS
DV Video Encoder - type 1
24Bits, 720x480
DV Audio - NTSC
32.000KHZ, 16Bit, Stereo.

Is my computer missing something?

Any idea will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Sandip

[yg1968]

Virtualdub will only accept type 2 DV avi files. You also need to install a DV codec. I would suggest the Panasonic DV codec. See the tools section.

DVIO or DVapp can capture in type 2 DV avi files. See the tools section. (Ulead VS only captures type 1 DV avi). You can also use the type 1 to type 2 converter (although it's quicker to capture directly in type 2).

I am not sure but I think that Ulead will keep your video in DV, if you select avi. I don't think that it allows you to convert from different codecs. At least, I haven't managed to do so. Anyways, you are probably better off staying with DV. Unless your goal is to keep the file in divx. Then I would suggest using Vdub.

Lastly, you should set your audio on your camcorder to 16 bit (48khz). Your audio on your camcorder is probably set to 12 bits (32 khz). Mpeg-2 for DVD uses 48 khz. So you are better off setting your audio to 16 bit (48 khz) on your camcorder. This is an option on my TRV-25 (I don't know about the TRV-50).

[sandipdas]

Hi yg1968,

When you have TRV25 then I should ask you, how do you capture and what format and do you convert it to mpeg to put into the vcd. Don't you have the interlace problem when you watch it in the TV. Then what do you do?

I am having the interlacing and that's my problem.

Anyway I have changed it to 16Bit audio in my camcorder.

Thanks

Sandip

[yg1968]

Sorry, I thought that you were transfering to DVD. For VCD, I guess that the answer would be different. You might be better off de-interlacing. I am not sure. I have never done DV to VCD conversion. But it shouldn't surprise you that the video is a lot worse for VCD than DV. DV gives you better quality than DVDR. So expect a drop in quality if you tranfer from DV to VCD. Perhaps you should try to create a high bitrate and high resolution mpeg file on your harddrive to see if you can isolate the problem. Or perhaps you should consider SVCD or CVD (if your DVD player will play it).

[sandipdas]

Actually I am doing it for SVCD or X(s)VCD whatever you call. My DVD player can handle upto 2500KBPS constant bitrate. Of course I have not tried further.

Sandip

[yg1968]

Here is a discussion on de-interlacing. It's a bit above my head. But the consensus seems to be that if you can avoid de-interlacing for SVCD or DVD, you should. Anyways, perhaps you should try both to see which one that you like better.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=3a3e840b0c04636ed516eaf3246c12ed&threadid=47898

[sandipdas]

Actually I did de-interlace with sepatefields and alternet fields and the AVI looks OK. Now whenever I tried to convert in to mpeg through TMPGEnc but what I get is digital blocks on the picture. I have used 2-pass vbr, M/A/L 8000,5000,3000 but not satisfied.

Now I am really frustated.

I would like to know onething, Is DV AVI file only be converted into DVD without any problem?

[yg1968]

Yes I don't get digital blocks when I convert DV avi to mpeg-2. It should be a hassle free process. It's a bit strange. I am at a loss. I don't know what else you can do. I get better quality with CQ than 2 pass VBR. But I don't know what else to suggest to you.