forty-two, improvements and future.

[KaiCherry]

The original content of this post is really no longer applicable. People get it, things are going well and we are moving forward on/with/to 1.5



-K

[bilestyle]

i wholly agree with kai's sentiment.. its just absolutely appalling that one would need to 1) make crippleware, 2) make shareware or 3) make commercial software to get people to donate money towards a cause.

its just absolutely sickening, there is *QUITE* a good chance i feel we will totally abandon forty-two if things dont change within the next few days.

[akpslp]

PEOPLE!, what is the problem? what is $5 BUCS? goto paypal and pull out your credit card, ask your mom if you don't have one....chip in $5 or $10 bucs. If everyone did that, they would have the funds to continue this and you just might get help with all your complaints.

This is a great app, and worth the $

Kai and B, (and any others that worked on this) excuse my tone, but F*&K em if you don't start seeing donations....I know you don't want to, but make this a shareware, charge $50 bucs for it, or something like that, it is well worth it and you guys "SHOULD" get paid for this.

I think part of the problem here is that a lot of Mac users are use to getting great apps for free. I spend time on the Apple forums and you should see all the people bitching about the new iMovie. I just want to scream sometimes....they are bitching about FREE software.....

Anyway, I could probably go on and on here, but bottom line is that you guys should get paid for this app and if people are not going chip in to make worth your while, then you should start charging for it.....

keep in mind though, once you start charging for it, people will bitch even that much more.....kinda a double edge sword....

I guess since I am writing, I could also ask you guys a silly ? What do I do once I am done with the DvD --> DvD Encoding? with the files that are there?

Great works guys, I hope people come around, if not, charge em....I know I'll pay for 42

My one and half cents (I could have ranted some more, but figured I would hold back)

[KaiCherry]

PEOPLE!, what is the problem? what is $5 BUCS? goto paypal and pull out your credit card, ask your mom if you don't have one....chip in $5 or $10 bucs. If everyone did that, they would have the funds to continue this and you just might get help with all your complaints.

This is a great app, and worth the $

I don't think is the people here. They have been super, super supportive and helpful. Its them. "They".

Kai and B, (and any others that worked on this) excuse my tone, but F*&K em if you don't start seeing donations....I know you don't want to, but make this a shareware, charge $50 bucs for it, or something like that, it is well worth it and you guys "SHOULD" get paid for this.

I don't think we can. Think about it. Bad move. it has to be the way it is...people, helping us personally. Gifts.

I think part of the problem here is that a lot of Mac users are use to getting great apps for free. I spend time on the Apple forums and you should see all the people bitching about the new iMovie. I just want to scream sometimes....they are bitching about FREE software.....

iMovie is "trickware" you pay for it with your mac, and apple pays a bit too. Its not free.

Anyway, I could probably go on and on here, but bottom line is that you guys should get paid for this app and if people are not going chip in to make worth your while, then you should start charging for it.....

keep in mind though, once you start charging for it, people will bitch even that much more.....kinda a double edge sword....

I guess since I am writing, I could also ask you guys a silly ? What do I do once I am done with the DvD --> DvD Encoding? with the files that are there?

I want to fix stuff like that...make it even easier. its just really really hard right now. I will look into tho.

Great works guys, I hope people come around, if not, charge em....I know I'll pay for 42

My one and half cents (I could have ranted some more, but figured I would hold back)

could you send some of those cents our way if you haven't already?

I mean we can't rent dvds and I'll never get this pal stuff figuredd out...

-K

[Eug]

This thread seems a little odd to me. It's been out, what one weekend?

Hell, I haven't even had a chance to install 42 1.0 yet.

By the way, if you don't want to do shareware or crippleware, then perhaps nagware might be in order.

[bilestyle]

1.0 has only been out for a weekend, but 0.6 was out for quite some time.

[SCB]

Dude, this is capitalism. If you want money for something then charge for it. It seems backwards to me to offer an app for free and then expect donations. You should have just charged for it initially. It's like the whole .mac thing. Apple offers it for free and then figures out it can't afford it so it starts to charge for it. So what happens? People get pissed because they are now being charged for something that was previously free. Yet had people been charged from the beginning, those complaints wouldn't be there. Same with iDVD.

Really; you want money, then charge for it. If you want to make any sort of profit then this is definitely a situation where you should be cynical. Don't expect people to pay out of the "goodness of their hearts". Everybody is always looking for a free lunch.

[CJ of FL]

Right now, to me it's worthless. I was one of the few who sent you some cash, specifically to support the development of a good dvd>dvd-r program, but I've tried 3 movies with 42v1 as well as some with the old version and none work. I'd even be willing to pay more money, but only if dvd>dvd-r works. I don't use Divx or any of the other stuff. It ejects Spiderman right after the preview and Resident Evil and The Big Hit result in a 30 minute mpeg. Yes, I know The Big Hit doesn't need downsampling, but I'm trying to get anything to work.

[qshartle]

No offense kai and bile, you have a Kickass program, but i would say its worth is about 10 bucks. if you added a few more features(i kno how u h8 that srry )
I would say a bitrate calc for divx and dvd-->vcd,svcd,dvd. And maybe a choice to what codec you use for divx.

I kno how kai doesnt like it when someone mentions ffmpegx(srry again )

But if you could have more or equal options then I would say you could fetch 20-30$$. Thats my opinion. I hope it helps.


Q

[KaiCherry]

Dude, this is capitalism. If you want money for something then charge for it.

We can't.

It seems backwards to me to offer an app for free and then expect donations.

Same with iDVD.

See above about the iApps

Really; you want money, then charge for it.

-K

[KaiCherry]

[quote="CJ of FL"]Right now, to me it's worthless. I was one of the few who sent you some cash, specifically to support the development of a good dvd>dvd-r program, but I've tried 3 movies with 42v1 as well as some with the old version and none work.
[quote]

And we appreciate it. try some more. it doesn't work will all dvds and i have none of the ones you do.

three, out of all the dvds in the world isn't a fair test.

I'd even be willing to pay more money, but only if dvd>dvd-r works. I don't use Divx or any of the other stuff. It ejects Spiderman right after the preview and Resident Evil and The Big Hit result in a 30 minute mpeg. Yes, I know The Big Hit doesn't need downsampling, but I'm trying to get anything to work.

Ok...fair enough

Please post any movies you have done a sucessful dvd-dvd conversion with forty-two here.

-K

[rockinsage]

It ejects Spiderman right after the preview and Resident Evil and The Big Hit result in a 30 minute mpeg.

This was happening to me on another DVD (Frequency), it would eject immediately after the preview played. Never figured it out.

CJ, tell me exactly what settings you're using on Spiderman (Quality, Rate, Title, Subs, etc.) and I'll attempt it myself soon.

[CaseyComb]

I haven't used this program it sounds great. I would donate money to this gladly, but I can't even figure out how to get ffmpegx to work properly. If this is a standalone program (i.e. no unix command prompts to intstall other stuff "mpeg2enc") then you can name your price. Don't tell me how easy it is to install the mpeg2enc command line, I've tried, I'm not a computer whiz. Can I load up the program and run it without doing anyhting else? Is it a straight forward GUI or do I have to type in more unix terminal crap to get it to work? If it is I will gladly cough up a donation, pay outright, go out and collect money from people on the street (I'm serious). If not well my interest is lost. Best of Luck Kai seriously, I hope it works out. This is my only gripe for OSX encoding software.

[suspended]

My thoughts:

This is a greatly desired app. Your time and effort is valuable.

People will pay for it if it is forced upon them. It woud be nice if people would pay SOMETHING for it, but based on results, they won't.

My suggestion is to charge a minimal amount and work out a crippleware, time limited or some other way that people can see how well it works and be forced to pay for it. Sorry, but there ain't no other way.

Use a strong method, like rbrowser does, to keep people from passing around passwords.

I hate to say it, but it looks like these people that are enjoying your efforts won't donate unless forced to. Force them.

People will pay, there is no equal app.

[Microman]

Installed 42 V1 without deleting old version. So now I deleted all I could remember of 42, and installed V1 as per instrucitons:

Only get this:

aukdio strea; 0 akudio format: ac3 (stereo Language: en aid :128
number of audio channels on disk : 1.
number of subtitles on disk: 0
There are 2 titles on this DVD
There are 41 chapters in this DVD title
There are 1 angles in this DVD title.
number of audio channels on disk 1

and then it just hangs there. WELL, when I installed I did follow instructions. But only instructions #1, and #2, after going back and continuting with instructions #3, and #4, it worked. Well its doing its thing now, will see what results look, like.

[squeed]

Someone asked a few weeks ago if a PO box could be used. Kai and Bile, I think you may get more donations if you had a PO box vs paypal.

#1. Paypal show the real identity of people. Many feel uncomfortable with this.

#2. Many of us are students and don't have credit cards and Moms who won't let us use theirs on the web for fear of technology. (we do have lunch money though)

#3. It is just easier to throw a $5 or a $10 and send it in to a PO box.

Why not try it. I think they are like $20 for the year at the post office.

-Squeed

[WiseWeasel]

Yes, I think there are several obstacles to you guys making money from this:
1) Lack of payment options; most people don't have/want PayPal, and would probably send in money or use a cc if available.
2) It's being advertized as freeware on versiontracker, with a download link straight to the file. If you directed vt to your site and presented the payment options along with the downloads, ppl might associate the two. Another option would be to change to nagware, with a screen that comes up directing to a payment website to help keep Forty-Two development going each time the app launches, or the process is launched.
3) Patience, it's only been a few days since widespread distribution. It sometimes takes me weeks or months to decide that some piece of shareware is worth paying for, while I am reassured that the app performs as advertised, and is being developed further, to address any issues that might come up.

[WiseWeasel]

Oh, and:
4) Put a link to your donation site on the dmg, or make a Forty-Two app folder (in the applications) containing the app, documentation, and donation link.

[quasor]

You should focus on how you'll improve v2 from v1. If you want to charge $20 for v2 there'd better be $20 worth of value in v2 otherwise I'll say f-it, i'll pull a copy of v1. Sorry but the cat's out of the bag, v1 is free.

I paid for v1, it works great, I'm really happy. Would I pay for v2? Most definately because you've proved you guys can produce quality stuff. If you can make the same jump in features / functionality to v2 then I think you're ready to charge people.

I'm sure you guys are smart enough to come up with a good business strategy to make this work.

[KaiCherry]

actually... I know longer really care

We will do what we can do, when we can how we can.

I hope folks enjoy it. I'm looking into other ways to spend my time for awhile. Too much stress.


-K

[occitan]

Kai, Bile, congrats on what you've acheived with 42 so far, it's a great concept, and it's not far off being what you aimed at. Please don't take offense at what I am about to say, I just think there is a need for a reality check....

However, this thread seems way off the mark. First, few people will pay for a beta version of a tool. Your first non-beta version v1 still seems to have a number of issues, and has only been out a couple of *days* !!

For shareware, downloads does not equal users. If the tool doesn't have full functionality, or has some issues making it not work properly, your downloaders, or window shoppers will go elsewhere. If you're lucky they might download the next version to try it again. I'm in that case myself, without support for PAL discs, I'm hanging on for a new version if it comes. Meanwhile ffmpegX does the job.

Stick with it, address the bugs, clean up the interface quirks (e.g selecting audio and subtitle tracks) and open it to a much wider market - i.e add PAL support, and you may start to get some income off it.

Make a new release every couple of months, and after six months you might be able to tell if your approach is working.

Making conclusions two days after a feature incomplete release with a few problems is rash to say the least.

Don't get disheartened fellas, you've started something brilliant, stick at it and you won't regret it.

Again, congratulations and thanks for your hard work.

[KaiCherry]

For shareware, downloads does not equal users. If the tool doesn't have full functionality, or has some issues making it not work properly, your downloaders, or window shoppers will go elsewhere. If you're lucky they might download the next version to try it again. I'm in that case myself, without support for PAL discs, I'm hanging on for a new version if it comes. Meanwhile ffmpegX does the job.

As we are not a company, and forty-two's primary goal is to make in-sync transcodes how would it be to users if we just plopped a PAL switch in there that didn't work?

I have BEGGED people to at *LEAST* send me some PAL DVDs to try to at LEAST look at them and run it against our logic, put all I've gotten instead is a bunch of discouraging "until it supports PAL your software is worthless (to me)" posts and emails...sometimes without the "to me" part no less!

So really, while I want to do this, and have been setting aside any funds we get from European SUPPORTERS to buy PAL stuff, I'm frankly about to get "Ugly American" on folks because I'm sick to death of the attitude of these "poor put-upon Europeans."

Soo, as the funds trickle in, I will get a PAL playing standalone DVD player since I verfied this morning that my TV *should* work with PAL DVDs if i used the component input.

Baby steps people; perhaps some fine European reader out there will give us a grant so that we can help their bretheren.

And I want to REITERATE that we are NOT making money off this by ANY stretch of the imagination.

It will get done, if it gets done, when there are funds and time to support the feature.

-K

[nequilar]

For shareware, downloads does not equal users. If the tool doesn't have full functionality, or has some issues making it not work properly, your downloaders, or window shoppers will go elsewhere. If you're lucky they might download the next version to try it again.

And I want to REITERATE that we are NOT making money off this by ANY stretch of the imagination.

It will get done, if it gets done, when there are funds and time to support the feature.

-K

Kai, Bile, others:

I've never written any software, so I won't even attempt to make statements/complaints about what doesn't work, besides I haven't even TRIED 42v1.0.1 yet -

And that actually brings me to my full focus:

First, many people (I'm one) will download stuff off VT or MU thinking, "yeah, that sounds cool - I should check it out". After download it sits and sits and sits... you get the idea (maybe you even do that...). Eventually they check it out, or trash it.

Second, because of the way (rightly) you designed 42, some people won't get a usable or valid experience because they didn't read the instructions. They may already think it's crippled or crap because they're not patient (intelligent?) enough to read and follow your simple instructions. No reflection on you guys or the quality of your software - just on them.

Will I pay for 42? You bet, if it does what I need it to do (within the liimitations you have already stated currently exist in V1)... but I need time to evaluate it. How long is that? For me at least 2 weeks. Why? Priorities. Right now, converting DVDs to another format is a "that would be cool" item versus a "I NEED to do that" item.

Personally, I hope 42 has a future. More importantly, I hope you all get rewarded/compensated for all the time and effort you put into it. If you don't, wash your hands of it and move on to something that WILL get you to where (and what) you need. But keep the code so you can show it off at a job interview!

This was probably all a lot more than you wanted to read. My wife says I talk to much, I guess I type to much too....

My 0.02.

Take it easy and thaks for your time and feedback.

[CJ of FL]

I, for one, am desperate for a good Mac DVD>DVD-r program. Considering how useful it would be to me, I think it's worth a lot... as long as it works.

We will do what we can do, when we can how we can. I'm looking into other ways to spend my time for awhile.

Well, that attitude won't get you any donations! Maybe, you could "sell" it with paypal. Someone sends you some bucks, you email them the app. I'm sure it would end up being shared, but that has to be better tban the way it is now.

Rockinsage, for Spiderman I set the bitrate using Bitbudget based on the movie length (5.something, I think). I didn't change anything else. At this point, I'm more interest in what movies have worked. I'd want to try a movie that has worked DVD>DVD-r and try it myself to see if I get the same results.

[elreeko]

Great app guys!! Thanks for all the hard work and long hours (and lots of stress I'm sure) you guys put in.

I will definitely be sending a donation in the near future (I'm self-employed so funds sort of come in in chunks at odd times )

Take some time to rest. You've all definitely earned it. I know people are eager to get all of their bugs fixed, but hey, a little bit longer wait isn't gonna hurt anyone.

People, give these guys a break. They have worked their asses off to give us mac users a free product that produces in synch movies. Sure there are some bugs. You can't expect a program to be absolutely perfect right off the bat. Don't just yell "your program sux and its useless to me". Try being nice about it, it will get you a lot farther.

Good job guys and for chrissake GET SOME SLEEP!!!

[KaiCherry]

I, for one, am desperate for a good Mac DVD>DVD-r program. Considering how useful it would be to me, I think it's worth a lot... as long as it works. [edited]

Posts like this will kill it looooong before anything else.

Look people, if you are using forty-two for anything untoward, first of all its a bad idea, secondly its wrong and (whether you believe it or not) we Do NOT use it for stealing movies NOR CONDONE IT.

So we *know* you're gonna *steal* from us...another reason why its User supported. I don't need the frustration.

This is not a ::wink wink:: BS post either. I do NOT want to see ANYTHING like this posted publically, and I believe it is a violation of the terms here, to boot!

I use forty-two to get these damned dvds of mine ready for xbmp. chris, the same, Bile converts all his stuff to svcd and puts the originals away.

And I do my kids DVDs...they destroy them like you would not believe.

And people wonder WHY we REFUSE to support VOBS.

Right here, people...right here. Never gonna happen.

Bad, bad CJ of FL.

-K

[ssevenup]

Having just forked over $20.00 for 42 in the hope that it will one day produce a usable end product, I am disheartened to hear that the developers are threatening to abandon it. I agree with the other comments about Versiontracker listing it as freeware keeping a lot of people from contributing. Also, if they do in fact abandon it, I wonder if they plan to offer to refund those who have paid. I share your disgust with so many people refusing to pay, but once you go down the road of asking for donations, your sort of obligated. Maybe you could offer direct support only to those who pay, and refuse to answer anyone directly that does not. My only real problem with 42 right now is that the QT friendly format could (or should) result in a larger higher quality file that QT can effectively play. Since the high quality DivX is too big for a CD I would probably opt to burn it onto a DVD-R, so it may as well be bigger. The playback problems I'm having are probably related to the codec, or maybe the choice of codecs, and may be solved as the codec is improved. The auto cropping seemed to work much better for me in V1. Here is a message I posted in another thread...

I tried my first DivX in the QT friendly format last night. As was the case with the old version of 42 the AVI is very difficult to deal with. QT6 will play it after "validating" but as before any attempt to jump to another scene results in an extended wait with the spinning ball. VLC will also play it, but any attempt to jump scenes locks it up. Mplayer has all sorts of dostortion and tearing issues. Mplayer is the only one that has video quality issues. The 3ivx codec (that this encode didn't use) was the one that had the least playback issues across multiple players in the old version. Maybe this stuff will improve as the DivX codec improves? The new version is certainly an accomplishment in terms of ease of use. By the way the preview AVI has the same terrible distortion and tearing issues when the preview runs, I assume because it uses Mplayer.

I would like to voice my gratitude for the work done so far, and I hope it can continue to develop.

--MM

[bilestyle]

I, for one, am desperate for a good Mac DVD>DVD-r program. Considering how useful it would be to me, I think it's worth a lot... as long as it works. [edited]

i think you are missing the point of forty-two. This isn't a program that is made to steal copyrighted material, it is made so that users have the flexibility of backing up their DVD's that they legally own to other mediums. I.e. burning an s/x/v/cd for a plane ride where all one has is a laptop with a cd-rom drive rather than a dvd-rom, or for playing in xbmp or something of the sort. Whenever i fly i always backup movies I like to SVCD for viewing on my laptop, prime example. We do NOT condone the use of our software for ANY illegal activities.

[mcaswell]

[quote="CJ of FL"]I, for one, am desperate for a good Mac DVD>DVD-r program. Considering how useful it would be to me, I think it's worth a lot... as long as it works.

I downloaded the trial version of dvd2one for PC's and ran it on my wifes HP 667 Celeron. I had been trying for over a week to make a backup copy of my original "Funny Girl" dvd using every program I could find. I spent hours every day and had nothing to show for it. I see the promise in 42, but have yet to successfully do anything with it. Transcoding for over 24 hours? Well, I now have a backup of "funny girl" and several of my other dvds. I used dvd2one on my wifes PC and networked in to my G4 drive to the folder where I had used DVD backup to rip it.

GUESS WHAT! Even over the network, I had a working 4.36GB DVD-R ready backup that maintained the AC-3 and 16x9. All I have is the movie itself (thats all dvd2one does). After the 30min of video test, I paid $44.00 to get a serial number and download the full version. The program is 96k.. yes thats right.. only 96k and it works like a champ. If you have a PC and want DVD to DVD-R backups of your "Leagally Owned and purchased DVD's" then I suggest "dvd2one". You can get more info at dvd2one.com. This pgrm rocks! can it do all that 42 promises to do? NO.. but what it does, it does beautifully!

I still have hopes for 42, but I'm not going to pay a cent until I actually get it to do something that I need. I don't do SVCD or VCD.. so maybe I'm not a 42 customer. If thats the case, then it won't get run on my computer. But if it can approach the DVD to DVD-R speed and success that a 96kb PC program can do, then I'd pay $44.00 for it!

42 does show promise and the constant whining about features is something like this.. "I give you my lawnmower to cut your grass and then you complain because my lawnmower won't edge your sidewalks". Hey, just be glad I gave you my lawnmower and shut up! If it won't do what you want it to do, find another way to do what you need using another program or procedure. Thats why I paid for dvd2one. I have full faith that the 42crew could write something like dvd2one for the mac, and have it be better and faster, if they only wanted to do on the fly transcoding and recode a complete DVD in about 20-40 minutes. I prefer to be "ALL MAC, ALL THE TIME" but sometimes you gotta go where the program is!

thanks for stopping by to read this!
have a great day!
MacDaddy

[CJ of FL]

Oooops!