Here's a real challenging DVD to copy, need help please!

[rhuala2]

Hi,

My wife wants me to back up a bunch of work out DVD's she just bought(Cathe) and they are a pain! I have backed up over 70 DVD's by now using stripping, transcoding, splitting ...etc.

The DVD is dual layer and about 7.5 GB, so it won't fit on one DVD-R, obviously. The real problem is that the chapter structure is real complex. There are 3 distinct workouts on the DVD, I'll call them A,B, and C. Then there are mix and match combo workouts also. So she can choose a workout called, say "Pyramid" This work out will take chapter 3 from Workout B, Chapter 7 From Workout A, Chapter 13 from Work out C...etc Get the idea? Each DVD probably has about 30 of these 'combo' workouts.

So my first thought was to just split the DVD into 2 DVD-R's but then if she chose workout "Pyramid" she would have to swap disks back and forth during her workout, well that won't work. Option 2 was to transcode each workout A, B, C and get 3 separate .m2v and .ac3 files. The problem here, is how the heck do I re-construct the chapters back with DVD Maestro?? I mean it's near impossible and would be hugely time consuming and not practical.

Anyways at the bottom I've copied out the DVD structure so you can see how it's made up (VTS_01_*, VTS_02_*, VTS_03_*, are workouts A, B and C). Any... and I mean ANY advice or suggestions would be appreciate with as much detail as possible. Thanks in advance


rhuala

Directory of C:\CATHE

01/29/2003 05:29 PM 16,384 VIDEO_TS.BUP
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 16,384 VIDEO_TS.IFO
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 116,736 VIDEO_TS.VOB
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 83,968 VTS_01_0.BUP
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 83,968 VTS_01_0.IFO
01/29/2003 05:30 PM 61,333,504 VTS_01_0.VOB
01/29/2003 05:43 PM 1,073,565,696 VTS_01_1.VOB
01/29/2003 05:50 PM 1,073,565,696 VTS_01_2.VOB
01/29/2003 05:51 PM 230,537,216 VTS_01_3.VOB
01/29/2003 05:51 PM 81,920 VTS_02_0.BUP
01/29/2003 05:51 PM 81,920 VTS_02_0.IFO
01/29/2003 05:51 PM 116,736 VTS_02_0.VOB
01/29/2003 05:59 PM 1,073,565,696 VTS_02_1.VOB
01/29/2003 06:05 PM 1,073,565,696 VTS_02_2.VOB
01/29/2003 06:09 PM 553,818,112 VTS_02_3.VOB
01/29/2003 06:09 PM 49,152 VTS_03_0.BUP
01/29/2003 06:09 PM 49,152 VTS_03_0.IFO
01/29/2003 06:09 PM 116,736 VTS_03_0.VOB
01/29/2003 06:15 PM 1,073,565,696 VTS_03_1.VOB
01/29/2003 06:22 PM 1,073,565,696 VTS_03_2.VOB
01/29/2003 06:23 PM 257,492,992 VTS_03_3.VOB
22 File(s) 7,545,389,056 bytes

[SLK001]

This is done with command sequences. When you select a program, a GPRM is set to a value unique to that program. Every chapter has an ending action that returns it to a menu structure (nothing will display), where a test is done on your GPRM value, and the next chapter is loaded accordingly.

For instance: When the button for an exercise program is selected, the first thing that happens is:
SET GRPM=1 (for program 1)
or
SET GPRM=2 (for program 2)
or
SET GPRM=3 (for program 3). Then, the DVD jumps to the first chapter of that program.

When completed, the DVD returns to a hidden menu page where it encounters a structure similar to this:
IF GPRM=1 THEN JUMP CHAPTER 2
IF GPRM=2 THEN JUMP CHAPTER 3
IF GPRM=3 THEN JUMP CHAPTER 4

Every chapter will have its own unique hidden menu like this, with all the possible options mapped out like this.

I haven't done anything like this before (but I know that it can be done), and I am sketchy on the exact command syntax, so you are going to have to do some research on your own. For instance, you may have to make the jump to VOB and CELL IDs (I don't remember if chapters can be mapped like this).

Look at the structure of the VIDEO_TS.IFO and the VTS_0X_X.IFOs to see how the manufacturer did it (use IFOEDIT).

[joepic]

The DVD is dual layer and about 7.5 GB, so it won't fit on one DVD-R, obviously. The real problem is that the chapter structure is real complex. There are 3 distinct workouts on the DVD, I'll call them A,B, and C. Then there are mix and match combo workouts also. So she can choose a workout called, say "Pyramid" This work out will take chapter 3 from Workout B, Chapter 7 From Workout A, Chapter 13 from Work out C...etc Get the idea? Each DVD probably has about 30 of these 'combo' workouts.

I'll take the first shot at a "solution". There are many ways to do this & I am sure someone will suggest the best way for you .

The tools I recommend are: DVD2DVR-R, CCE 2.5, Chapter Xtractor, BitRate Viewer and Scenarist. I know you have used Maestro as have I but I have never been able to get the PLAYLIST function to work across multiple movies to select Chapters from any movie and put it together as one "Pyramid" workout!

First a little background on my limited qualifications in DVD-R making! I recently did the 5 DVD set of Band of Brothers which has two PGC's approximatley 55 -115 minutes each on a DVD. I reduced each PGC to approximatley 2100MB to fit two of them on a DVD-R. There was a lot of night shots with plenty of action. I had to use VBR 3 passes to remove any pixel blocks. I captured the menu from each DVD and the theme music. The results, EXCELLENT 8)

1. To accomplish what you want for all of the WORKOUT options, you need to keep ALL three parts A, B & C on one DVD. This means you will need to encode down. The best encode is CCE. I have done very little using CCE in a stand alone mode. I always invoke it automatically from DVD2DVD-R. For our example lets assume each movie is equal size. If a DVD can hold 4,350 MB (approxiamtely) and each movie size is reduced to 1350 (times 3 = 4050) this leave 300mb for menu and theme music.

With DVD2DVD-R you can set the MB RESERVED option to 3000 and your movie will be reduced to approximately 1350. Setting the MB RESERVED will automatically set the MIN, AVG & MAX bitrates. You can try a VBR at 1 PASS but may need to go to 3 PASSES because of the action to keep the pixelation down. I suggest that you try one workout (A, B or C) at this size to see the quality.

2. Use Chapter Xtractor on each movie. This will give you the chapters in each movie but not give you the "mix and match" options. You maybe able to look at the movie with IfoEdit to determine which Chapters are used from movie A,B or C for each workout option or you may have to manually play each one to figure out what chapters are invoked.

3. Capture the 720 x 480 menu and theme music.

4. Use Scenarist to put it all together. I have not used this software but it seems like the only option to the multiple chapter workout problem.

Scenarist NT guides:
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/scenarist.htm
http://myweb.cableone.net/trilight/dvdguides/multipgc/default.htm

5. Burn DVD.

You have to ask yourself is it really worth all of this effort? As a learning experience for 1 workout DVD probably but I am not sure you want to do lots of them

[rhuala2]

joepic and SLK001, Thanks for your input.

SLK001, I don't quite follow your method, I need to do a bunch more research to follow what you are saying. joepic, you've outlined a pretty similar approach to what I was thinking but using totally different programs. I use DVD Maestro and TMPGEnc, CCE at $2000 is out of my hobby budget. But I think I follow your general train of thought. but this:

This will give you the chapters in each movie but not give you the "mix and match" options. You maybe able to look at the movie with IfoEdit to determine which Chapters are used from movie A,B or C for each workout option or you may have to manually play each one to figure out what chapters are invoked.

Is exactly what I wanted to avoid! Since each DVD has some 30 mix and max options that means I would have to go through each one and write down each sequence then reconstruct it again without error ..whew *wipe sweat from brow*

One thing I was thinking and maybe someone can chime in as to whether this would work. I'm at work right now so I'll have to try tonight, it will be very time consuming too, so if anyone can offer assitance I would be greatfuly. Anyways here it goes:

1. Rip the entire DVD to a directory, I'll call c:\workout
2. Transcode each SEPERATE vob movie block using TMPGEnc via DVD2AVI to shrink each movie set down using bitrate of about 2100
3. Extract the chapters
4. re-author each .m2v and .ac3 file sets and imported chapters INDIVDUALLY using Mastro.
5. Compile each one to seperate TS_VIDEO folders.
6. Rename each main block of .vobs in these new TS_VIDEO folders to match those of the original .vobs (Ignoring each folders VIDEO_TS files)
7. Copy those main block vobs back to original c:\workout folder

Would this work? In theory each compressed set of vobs will have the same chapter layout. I just wonder if maybe they have unique id#'s that will get lost on the process. In theory does this sound plausible? Thanks

rhuala

[damnim]

I agree with SLK001.

If you do some studying of the Maestro manual it will tell you how to use the command sequences that you can create in Maestro.

I will tell you there is no easy way to do it but the right way. SLK001 said it the best and it really is the only way to do it.

The side benefit of it is if you get really good at it give up your day job and go to hollywood and get a better paying job making DVD's.

8)

[lusid]

rempeg it, and remux with ifo edit. that should preserve the discs structure and sill let you keep it on 1 dvd-r. Maybe not the best quality, but this is just a workout video.

[rhuala2]

lusid,

Could u please elaborate with some more detail. Thanks.

rhuala

[lusid]

In IFO edit, if you load one of the title set's ifos, you'll get the option to create rempeg2 cffl on the tools menu. Then you open the cffl file in rempeg2, and it will scan the gop structure of the video stream in the titleset's vobs. then you can use the slider to set the new bitrate as a percentage of the original, and it will create a new m2v stream, which you can remux into the original vobs using ifo edit's VOB Extras. The new m2v stream will have an identical gop structure to the original, it'll just have a lower bitrate. The new vob will function just like the original, but take less space. Do this to all your title sets, reducing the files just enough to fit on a dvdr, and the disc should function just like the original.

Not exactly step by step, but there are more detailed guides and examples over at doom9.org.

[rhuala2]

Hey that's awesome I'm gonna give that a try when I get home tonight, that sounds like it may work perfectly. Dam, sometimes this site kicks ass, I don't think I would have figured that out on my own! Thanks lusid, this is something I really want to get working and I really like learning a new trick.

rhuala

[rhuala2]

As per the ReMPEG2 manual:

If you experience jerkiness of some frames at a fixed interval you can try to adjust the "bit allocation adjustment" sliders. These allow you to raise the amount of bits reserved for every type of picture (I, P and B). By default the I slider is set to 110% (P and B to 100%), meaning that more space will be reserved for the I pictures since scaling all picture types down by a fixed factor will most likely result in jerky I frames. These settings do NOT affect the resulting average bitrate. Once these settings are applied, everything is adjusted to meet the average bitrate again...

Anyone have any suggestions on what % to set the I, P and B for a fast motion movie (work out video)? Thanks.

rhuala

[lusid]

Leave it at the defaults unless you have problems.

Usually, when I have had problems, it's been because of a non-movie vobID preceding the feature in the title set. WB titles are known for this, and I've seen it on some MGM titles as well.

[jarvis1781]

hey rhuala...

by any chance could you tell me the title of this specific workout video?

I think I have done exactly what you want...the structure seems identical to one that i have done

[rhuala2]

Hi jarvis1781,

The DVD's are the new Intesity Series. I am working on the method described by lusid right now so I can't say if it will work or not yet. I started encoding the first set last night and will continue onto the next 2 tonight and tomorrow as it takes about 4hours to encode one set.

I am curious how you did it, the more detail the better. Thanks.

rhuala

ps. My wife really likes these DVD's and doesn't ever want to use the originals. I think she's going to lock them up and hide them.

[rhuala2]

lusid or anyone else that may know,

I tried your (lusid) method and was semi-successful. The combo workouts (combining different chapters from different movie sets) didn't work properly. For example if I choose Squat workout it ran the Lunges Workout, or if I selected Lunges workout it ran the Arms workout ...etc. Maybe you could scrutenize my process and see if I did something wrong. I have read a the guides from Doom9 and VCDHelp about Rempeg2 so here's what I settle in with.

1. Used IFOEdit/Rempeg2 to create 3 new .m2v files, Ill call A.m2v, B.m2v and C.m2v compressed to 54%.

2. Created 4 new directtories, c:\A, c:\B, c:\C and c:\NEWBUILD

3. REMUXED (in IFOedit) each new .m2v file with the corresponding .vob set into each new directory A,B,C. i.e. REMUXED A.m2v with VTS_01 set and saved in c:\A

4. Each directory contained new:
VIDEO_TS.IFO
VIDEO_TS.VOB
VTS_01_0.IFO
VTS_01_0.VOB
VTS_01_1.VOB
VTS_01_2.VOB

Where c:\A hold VTS_01, c:\B is VTS_02, and c:\C holds VTS_03

Note: one less .vob file per each set and combined file size way smaller, as expected...

4. Here's where I adlib a bit. Copied these original files (from Original rip directory) to c:\NEWBUILD,
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 16,384 VIDEO_TS.BUP
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 16,384 VIDEO_TS.IFO
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 116,736 VIDEO_TS.VOB
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 83,968 VTS_01_0.BUP
01/29/2003 05:29 PM 83,968 VTS_01_0.IFO
01/29/2003 05:30 PM 61,333,504 VTS_01_0.VOB

5. Then grabbed only the main big fileset .vob's from each directory. So from c:\A, added the following files to c:\NEWBUILD,

VTS_01_1.VOB
VTS_01_2.VOB

from c:\B added,
VTS_02_1.VOB
VTS_02_2.VOB

from c:\B added,
VTS_03_1.VOB
VTS_04_2.VOB

6. Burned c:\NEWBUILD

So there's my story, everything ran and looked good but the chapters and selected combo workouts were all messed up. I would appreciate any advice... helllllpp...

Thanks,

rhuala

[rhuala2]

Really trying to get this figured out

lusid, jarvis1781, anyone...