Capture card for 700 hrs VHS

[IMpactHorse]

I was reached by a client that wants to burn 700 hrs of VHS on VCDs and on his hard disk. Now I'm putting together a system (hardware, software compilation -Virtual Dub, TMPEG, VCDEasy - plus procedures) to help him do just that.
One of the biggest challenges is to find the right hardware. I don't want to blow heaps of money on an expensive card to capture VHS, and DV is not an option. What would be the best compromise in terms of cost versus quality, considering, again, its VHS (the "crap in, crap out" theorema). Would I need a better CPU, more memory, a fast, video-dedicated HD? Can I fit 700 hrs of video in a HD?

If I score this, I'll make sure VCDHelp.com gets its fair share!

[pharries]

How much money do you have to spend?

[vcdforme]

Are the tapes decent quality?
you may want to upgrade to
SVCD or DVD. ('')

[hwoodwar]

As far as the client who also wants to keep the VCDs on his hard disk, if he were to keep them on his hard disk in MPEG-1 format (which VCDs use) then he would require a minimum of 525 gig of space for the MPEGs only at the moment the largest IDE hard drives I can find are 250gig. Allowing room for different filesizes than 800mb, formatting and other programs the minimum I would recommend is three 200gig or three 250gig drives. Three 200gig approx $720 cheapest, three 250gig approx $1155 cheapest US.

[twodogs]

I don't want to blow heaps of money on an expensive card to capture VHS, and DV is not an option.

Why is DV not an option?

Reason for asking:
An ADVC-100 is well rated and easy to use. Although it is DV capture it would provide sufficient quality for VCD, which is your target specified.

[BJ_M]

a 1.8 or above p4 is plenty horsepower ... not much is needed .

Highpoint RocketRAID 404 4-Channel ATA133 RAID Host Controller

5 x 120 gig drives - mounted as 1 volume or as raid ...

1 x ~40 gig system drive (or less)

425watt or better power supply (enermax or equal)


Darim MPEGator http://www.bernclare.com/mpgator.htm

or

Canopus MVR http://www.canopus.com/US/Products/index/products_mpeg1_2_capture.asp

tower case

basic graphics card w/ hardware mpeg decoding and tv out (for preview) .

total cost $2600 or less

[pharries]

There seems to be an obsession with PC speed etc.
I have a similar projectongoing.
I purchaced a used 450 Mhtz PC for $100 on ebay
To that addd a ADS Pyro card for $50 and a Canopus ACDV unit
To finish it up an ADS external Firewire IDE drive box ($99) - with whatever IDE drive is wanted mounted within it. (Probably a 250 GB)
Saved $1000 on the PC so I could spend it where needed.
I will be using Main Concept products for MPEG compression and Scenalyser for capture. (Total <$180)
total for project appx $680 + IDE Drive cost

[BJ_M]

There seems to be an obsession with PC speed etc.
I have a similar projectongoing.
I purchaced a used 450 Mhtz PC for $100 on ebay
To that addd a ADS Pyro card for $50 and a Canopus ACDV unit
To finish it up an ADS external Firewire IDE drive box ($99) - with whatever IDE drive is wanted mounted within it. (Probably a 250 GB)
Saved $1000 on the PC so I could spend it where needed.
I will be using Main Concept products for MPEG compression and Scenalyser for capture. (Total <$180)
total for project appx $680 + IDE Drive cost

yes -- true .. great speed is not needed but i suggested a hardware encoder for the simple fact that first capturing 700hours - then converting them is both time consuming and a lot of space ..

i suggested 2 of the best for the money mpeg1 capture cards available

but your certainly right about cpu speed -- i only suggested a 1.8 as it is cheap - but you can get a nice 1ghz system even cheaper ..

[ImaWeTodd]

pharries

I don't think firewire supports 250gig drives. I believe it's 120 max. USB2.0 may support them.

Also, I've had some problems writting > 2 gig files to a NTFS firewire drive. Not sure if it's my enclosure or a limitation.

Check it out before you buy. Just tryin to save you some money.

[BJ_M]

i have written 100+ gig files to a firewire drive -- should be a problem ..

i have 160 gig firewire drives -- so i know that size is supported at least ..

[BJ_M]

i still suggested though the internal highpoint 4 channel controller (supports 8 drives) - cheap and good and faster than firewire ..

[dbaker6165]

Depending on how much money you are goin to spend I would buy the hard drives you need, a (desktop) standalone dvd recorder with a bitrate adjuster and a (desktop) standalone vcd recorder. And dont forget the media for them all.

If you had those standalone recorders you could copy the files to the hard drive. These would make your life easier

[pharries]

The 2GB limit has more to do with the capture program than anything.
I would go with scenalyzer -best $33 youwill pend

I think that the person you are building this system does not know enough to place an order!
Ask them
1)List in order of priority the following
quality of end product, speed, ease of use, cost.
Sometimes the tal ends up wagging the dog!
2) How much do you expect to pay?
These 2pieces of information are what is really needed. Wanting hundereds of hours of video on a hard disk demonstrates a lack of insight. It is in my opinion your job to help this poor simple person to a good solutuion.
It may well be that a DVD recorder would be the best option for someone who has poor insight!
I think it is important when building something for someone else that we are not buildin something for ourselves!

[trillium]

good for you pharries!

I agree that Scenalyzer is a definate MUST have for capturing.
I'm running an AMD 750 with a $28 Computer show special aquired firewire card and the Canopus ADVC-100. Still in the process of finding all the software I want to use, but it works!....

For some users though, I would say cost becomes the primary point of concern, followed by speed, ease of use, then quality. I've seen to many times in different aspects of the industry the concept of "Instant Gratification" causing issues in the end. Many people want a solution yesterday spending the least and end up investing more in the long run.

Like pharries said I would recommend finding out the exact reason this individual wanting "hard drive" access to all that video and perhaps offering a new (more viable and perhaps more cost effective) solution!

[dbaker6165]

oh really...

then why would you go cheap with a 33 dollar "doo hickey"

Like I said if you have the money and dont want to waste time buy a standalone dvd recorder... its fast... it captures and encodes at the same time... and you can put it on your computer easily.

However if you like wasting your time...

[dbaker6165]

ok here another crazy idea if you have the money...

Buy one of those TIVO digital video recorders that records to a hard drive. I know some can record over 300 hours at a time.

how do you transfer that into your computer i dont know how.

I am not sure about the quality of the video either.

I like things easy and if I could try this out I would if i had the money to do this!

[trillium]

Well, there is the stand alone option. For some it may be the "way to go" for others (who like me) absolutely adore having control over every single aspect of the tape -> digital process, I'll stick with my trusty computer.

As for the $33 "doo-hickey"..... all I am saying is Windows! .... When I couldn't capture in any demo version (or commercial version) of editing software I had on my machine, and here is this $33 "doo hickey" that allowed not only capturing for video but also scene detection... yeah I spent the $33, and am damn happy I did.

When I first hooked up the Canopus NOTHING would capture, even reboot after reboot.... Oh I could preview the video feed just fine!!! Could see my BetaMax copy of Doc Savage in all of its campy glory, but for the life of me record would render a 0 length avi...

$33 or endless hours of frustration trying to figure out how to get good quality avi captures...


I'll opt for the $33 thank you muchly....

[SHS]

BJ_M the Darim MPEGator is waste of money when the Provideo PV231 (3DeMON) for $1000 less dose better.
IMpactHorse you need ask your client what kind of quality he really want DVD or SVCD or VCD you as need to point the good the bad and the ugly.
Also keep in mind SVCD and VCD do have some dissappointment on various accounts like time and quality limited vs DVD quality.

[BJ_M]

BJ_M the Darim MPEGator is waste of money when the Provideo PV231 (3DeMON) for $1000 less dose better.
IMpactHorse you need ask your client what kind of quality he really want DVD or SVCD or VCD you as need to point the good the bad and the ugly.
Also keep in mind SVCD and VCD do have some dissappointment on various accounts like time and quality limited vs DVD quality.

ok -- i hadnt used that one -- i did try out a darim though before as well as a Vitec MPEGProfiler .. i can get all of them including the canopus for well under a $1000 now (ive seen for $600) .. though they were all around $1500-$1600 a year ago ..

i looked at the specs on the Provideo PV231 and they are not to close to either of the cardsi mentioned -- for one .. it is limited in frame size and only mpeg1 -- i thought having the mpeg2 option of the other cards may give more flexability .. plus i suggested professional cards vs. a consumeer type card ...

though the cheap card may work fine ... i just dont use them .. but it is certainly an option ..

[thxkid]

DVD recorder $599
or one
with hard drive $999

DVD-R Blanks for 2 hours DVD or 4 hours VCD quality - 86 cents each

plus has editing features, timer, saves HUGE amount of time.

and no crashing(windows), no audio sync problems and will play in 95% of all DVD players and computers with DVD-Roms.

[Thorn]

Does your client understand that he'll have 500-1000 cdrs to keep track of? I'd suggest authoring the mpeg1 files onto DVD (you just need to have the audio at 48KHz). That way you might have something closer to 100-150 DVD-R discs, and the video doesn't take up more space on the hard drives.

Some others suggested going to DVD or SVCD, but that might mean adding more hard drives to store all of the larger files. A set-top DVD recorder also has that problem. It's all relative to what the customer wants, of course. If this is important video, then the quality improvement of DVD over VCD may be necessary. I wouldn't use SVCD because it's a stuck format (you can't put it on DVD-R later because the DVD spec doesn't support it on DVD media).

The downside to this is that you have to buy a DVD Burner (about $250) and burning software (varies in price), plus you have to spend a little time learning how to author.

[twodogs]

IMpactHorse, where are you?
You mention you don't want to blow lots of money and suggest some freeware/cheapware to run with.
There's plenty of suggestions above from cheap to expensive.

Perhaps you can provide some feedback before this thread continues much further??

[IMpactHorse]

Hey Twodogs,
Sorry to say, I'm in Rio, Brazil, where the local currency rate is 3.8 for a dollar. And for every computer item you buy, there's a 50% to 30% plus, compared to US prices.
The client's main concern is to keep the system operation simple and not to degrade the videos too much, with the conversion. I must say the VHS tapes he has look quite good. He's willing to spend something like 1,500 dollars.