Auto-padding in VCD Easy?

[MSlave]

What does that mean, and how can I prevent it from popping up (assuming that it is bad)?

[donalo]

What resolution is the mpeg file?

I think Vcdeasy asks this when there is an incorrect resolution.

[sterno]

Autopadding is most often required when the MPEG is improperly multiplexed.

[puertorican138]

VCDEasy usually gives padding errors if you don't pad the audio. When I don't check Pad VCD Audio in bbMPEG, I get padding errors in VCDEasy. If you're muxing with bbMPEG, don't forget to check "Pad VCD audio" or you will get padding errors with VCDEasy. Try re-muxing your file again.

[fravel]

I always ignore it with no problems at all because VCDImager autopads it on the fly. As I remember, that was placed as a request from a contributor to VCD Easy. Take a look at the "What's New" of their latest release.

[vitualis]

Autopadding (by VCDImager or Nero) is highly undesirable. It only works properly if your MPEG only needs minimal amounts of padding (e.g., at the end of the clip and where it won't matter).

If your MPEG is not correctly multiplexed, VCDImager (in this case as you are using VCDEasy) will try to force the MPEG stream into the chunks required for MODE2 Form2 type sectors and pad with null data where appropriate. This rarely works well and you can end up with a VCD that has A/V sync or skipping problems AND have the "bloating" MPEG file problem.

The easiest way to fix this is to simply use bbMPEG or TMPGEnc to remultiplex your MPEG file.

With TMPGEnc, load it up then:
File --> MPEG Tools --> Simple Multiplex

Select your MPEG file as the source and set an output name.

Then change the setting to "MPEG-1 Video-CD".

If you are making an XVCD, then you will have to set it to "MPEG-1 Video-CD (non-standard)".

Regards.

[fravel]

Michael Tam:
Thanks for letting us benefit from your expertise. Nevertheless, I've never encountered a problem with autopadding with VCDEasy/VCDImager. I capture mpeg directly from a PV231 MPEG-1 capture card, maybe that's the reason.
By the way, recently, after getting a new box with Windows XP, I'm having problems while capturing with the PV231 or any other mpeg capture software. The preview is all right until I begin capturing. Then, the screen becomes black and I can't see what I'm capturing, although the resulting mpeg is OK. I have the latest drivers. This didn't happen with WindowsME. Any idea?
Thanks in advance for any help.
fravel

[Q101]

I downloaded vcdeasy the other day to give it a try and get this error when trying to make a vcd out of an mpeg1 file.When I use nero to burn a vcd of the same file I get no error messages.So is nero auto correcting or not finding the problem that vcdeasy is.Anyone got any ideas?

[vitualis]

@ fravel:

Autopadding usually isn't an issue if your MPEG clip is "mostly" at VCD specs (i.e., apart from it's multiplexing and pack size). Even if VCDImager "autopads" the clip, it won't affect it. This may be what you are experiencing.

However, this may not necessarily be the case. For example, even if I make everything to VCD spec but mux the clip as "MPEG Auto" with TMPGEnc and let VCDImager autopad, the subsequent VCD will gradually drift out of sync on my stand-alone VCD player.

Thus, it may is probably a good idea to simply remux your MPEG to the correct pack size rather than let VCDImager auotpad the clip.

If you are making an "XVCD" (i.e., non standard VCD specs), this is even more pertinent. If you search the forums, will you encounter people who describe how their MPEG files "bloat" in size when trying to make their XVCDs. This is due to autopadding. Remuxing to the correct packsize first alleviates this issue.

@ Q101: Nero simply doesn't give any warnings when it autopads. Thus, you don't know whether it does or not. You can be pretty sure that if VCDImager wants to autopad a clip, Nero will be doing it too, however.

Regards.

[Jpesker]

KVCDs
---My Bitrate is 1150/400/70 kbps (CQ)
---My Audio is 128 kbps (Amped *2) not 224 kbps

I have seen videos on the net with almost crystal clear-clarity and around 700MB for a 2 hour mpg. I add these videos to VCDEasy and NO Padding occurs. This is a good thing, although I have no clue how they are doing this so well (the video quality I mean here). I have been doing KVCDs for about 2 months, and have yet to try making one straight from a DVD, but my assumption is that these crystal-clear mpg's are coming from DVDs and not AVIs but only a guess here.

Question on how to get such good quality because TMPGEnc does a " B- " job for me. CCE and Cucusoft look better in just about every way and take less than hour. They do not take 12 hours with all the options turned up (Noise and such) in TMPGEnc.

My problem is that in order to fit a 2 hour clip on a CD, I have to reduce or change bitrates, then adding audio and padding, try to come close to some of these perfect quality MPGs. I realize the way the rip was made affects alot, so that is why Im thinking the ones I was looking at came from DVD, and they knew a better way. I guess my questions lies in what DVD rip program produces the best video quality and then further changing it to VCD, is probably out of the scope of this section of Padding. Tmpgenc is really bad about blurring or not catching FAST motion, and tends to blur in this area. I have tried everything I know for months, and still only marginal improvements, at great cost to time. I try all the Settings for Noise, etc. and it takes like 10 hours for a 2 hour clip.
Is there something I am missing here, even though the original AVI, blurriness in fast motion is not even noticeable to the EYE?

I know what some would say about blurring in fast motion, it's due to the limitations of the LOW BITRATE for CD compared to DVD. Cucusoft does little or no blur whatsoever. I like how in Cucusoft I can have bitrate for min/max/avg all the same and I do not have to worry about coming up with an AVG bitrate. Just plug in the MPG, set them all the same bitrate and GO. I just wish CUCUsoft had some other settings for brightness, etc.

[Jpesker]

[quote="vitualis"]@ fravel:

Thus, it may is probably a good idea to simply remux your MPEG to the correct pack size rather than let VCDImager auotpad the clip.

quote]

What does this mean? Changing Pack-Sizes in TMPGEnc?

[mats.hogberg]

It's really very simple. If you're using TMPGEnc:
VCD mpg1 must be multiplexed as Video-CD mpg. Nothing else. End of story. The same goes for all encoders, and most mpeg1 encoders have a similar multiplexer setting.
If you have an mpg1 video that isn't multiplexed as Video CD mpeg1, it's easily cured with TMPGEnc ->MPEG Tools, simple multiplex, as Vitualis has pointed out.
Don't let VCDEasy (or other application) autopad.

/Mats

[Jpesker]

Edited

[mats.hogberg]

I've never had VCDEasy autopad a VCD mpg multiplexed as Video-CD or Video CD (Non Standard) with TMPGEnc. Never. If VCDEasy doesn't pad an mpg you've "found" on the web, it's already multiplexed as VCD mpg. In my book (and experience) it is that easy.

/Mats

[Jpesker]

So, depending on my Specs (bitrates) of my VCD, I have to choose the right one. But, still I am stumped because whether TMPGEnc pads or not, VCDEasy will EVERY TIME over 100 MBs. For example, Im looking at 8 MPGs right now, and plugging them into VCDEasy, at 720 MBs, VCDEasy says they are 850MB. Why?

[/b]Update:[/b] VCDEasy does not pad EVERY TIME if using the Standard or Non-Standard multiplex Type. If using the System Automatic multiplex Type, VCDEasy pads (And much less than using the other 2 Types which pad twice as much by TMPGEnc as VCDEasy does).

[Jpesker]

Could it be I am encoding using ES (Video Only) instead of System (Video Only)? If so, what is the difference?

[mats.hogberg]

Mats, what is meant by "Don't let VCDEasy (or other application) autopad."

Exactly that - If VCDEasy says it will autopad: Stop, go back and remultiplex your VCD mpg as Video CD or Video CD non standard. Then go back to VCDEasy.

Multiplexing the MP2 as both System Automatic Type

Expected. System stream has to be padded top be "authorable" as VCD.

and Standard VCD type. Both options pad under VCDEasy well over 100 MBs.

This latter is not to be expected. And I have never seen this anomaly.

Again, I stated that Multiplexing correctly with a MPEG-2 doe NOT pad, and this is ideal if I my DVD player liked MPEG-2?

What do you mean by this? All DVD players do mpeg2, as that's the video format of DVD. Maybe not raw mpeg-2, but surely as DVD and most likely as SVCD.

/Mats

[mats.hogberg]

A VCD specs ES mpg1 muxed as Video-CD with a VCD specs mp2 audio ES should author fine (without padding) in VCDEasy.

/Mats

[vitualis]

MPEG-1 will ALWAYS pad in VCDEasy, unlike MPEG-2, not only from my experience, but of what others have said. Mats, what is meant by "Don't let VCDEasy (or other application) autopad."

No.

Considering I was involved in the development of VCDImager which is the backbone to VCDEasy, I know this to be not true.

VCDEasy (VCDImager) will only pad an MPEG if it needs too... and basically, it WILL need to if it wasn't multiplexed correctly. As per my posts two years ago. If you encode a VCD compliant MPEG and for some reason, you didn't set the encoder to use the appropriate muxing settings for VCD (i.e., the correct pack size), then VCDImager will pad the the MPEG so that it fits the physical sector size of the disc. This often does not work well. I have made literally hundreds of VCDs (encoded with the Panasonic encoder which does not correctly mux the clips) and if you remux them using the aforementioned settings with TMPGEnc, VCDImager/VCDEasy will not autopad them.

And yes, you shouldn't be encoding your video and audio separately. For whatever reason, it often does not work correctly when you try to multiplex the streams together. In practice, encoding both the video and audio with a single encoder (any encoder) usually works just fine.

Regards.

[Jpesker]

Okay, I see how I was wrong about stating that both types, standard and non-standard will pad in VCDEasy, actually I meant it will pad in TMPGEnc. Thanks for the posts.

I'll keep looking for better software though. I'm still stuck on how some mpg's are done excellent (no blurry fast motion scenes produced by TMPGENC). I do not see how you can make a 500 M/B video part, with perfect quality, and yet I have seen some. Encoding using "some program here" from DVD to AVI? Any ideas?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks to me that it is better to allow VCDEasy to pad, because the file size will actually be smaller for a CD versus TMPGEnc. Both of TMPGEnc multiplex Types (standard and non-standard) will pad twice as much as the first Type, MPEG-1 System (Automatic).

All of what you said, makes sense. If it's not up to specs use non-standard, if it is, use standard VCD multiplex. I will be using NEITHER until I find a better video encoder. I guess I was thrown off track because of remarks that padding can be prevented by VCDEasy, and it can if you let TMPGEnc pad instead, which is like, TWICE as much.

For example, I just did a mpg 2 minutes ago. I have setup the encoder like this:

In order to do a XVCD (KVCD), the video bitrate is 900 (Cinema Craft only allows a Constant Bitrate for MPEG-1, not using TMPGEnc today, but usually will have 1150 kbps.) Result:

Video .mpv 601 MB

Audio mp2 - 81 MBs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
682 MBs (Ideally)

I wanted to do a System Multiplex (Automatic) first. Since I have a NON-spec mpg, TMGEnc will not pad, but VCDEasy will pad, but this seems to be the best method to me since file size is 100 M/Bs less this way, and it plays just fine in my DVD player.

System (Automatic) = 692 MBs (good, no padding)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Added MPG to VCDEasy v3.0.2 = 795 M/Bs

(no warning from VCDEasy about padding. I remember the earlier versions popping up a box saying it will have to pad, but the new version does not warn. All good so far, since I multiplexed wrong, this is expected, but still 100+ M/Bs (ok, im starting to accept this number, cuz it just gets worse).

Going back to Tmpgenc as instructed. Starting over.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multiplexing with MPEG-1 Video-CD (non-standard)

Size: 882 M/Bs (uggggghhh, TMPGEnc padded 200+ M/Bs). I will not use the non-standard TYPE because of this huge padding.

Correct Way, but padding is twice as much as 1st method. Starting Over just because I want to do the last one, VCD-standard.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multiplexing with MPEG-1 Video-CD (standard)

Size: 882 M/Bs (same)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion:

TMPGENC padded both the standard and non-standard VCD 200+ M/Bs. So, now that TMPGEnc did all the padding there is no further padding in VCDEasy. Size: 893 M/B (Correct, No Padding in VCDEasy)

(I see now what you mean, no padding from VCDEasy, but it is worse because I would rather choose System Automatic since it is 100+ M/Bs less.

Now that we come full circle, I understand now, that some downloaded MPGs did not pad in VCDEasy because they multiplexed the right way, and allowed TMPGEnc (or some other Tool) to do the padding instead of VCDEasy. This means that their bitrates are much lower than mine to make up for the extra 100 M/Bs necessary to pad using TMPGEnc which only leads to further confusion about video quality and DVDrip programs.

Ok, some of the Videos are just about perfect, how did they make a 2 hour movie into 500 M/Bs +100 M/B Audio + 200M/B Padding = 800 MBs. Probably, wasn't TMPGEnc doing the encoding or it was a very good DVDrip to AVI program. But which one, I want to know when I try to rip from DVD? Time to buy a DVD+R, it would be nice not to worry about low bitrates and jerky or blurry scenes from TMPGENC. I'll keep looking for better software though. Any ideas?

[Jpesker]

Thanks for your reply. The only reason I started encoding separately, audio and video, is because there is a problem with TMPGEnc with having NO SOUND for AVIs with VBR MP3 and AC3. Half the time TMPGEnc does the job, but the problem is that it can play just fine on your PC until you put the CD in your DVD player, and find that there is no sound.

Wish TMPGENC would fix this, other encoders I have used do not have this problem.* I also like reducing the bitrate of Audio to make it smaller, so I can focus on improving video quality as much as possible.

Again, thanks for all your great information.

*1 Vote for Cucusoft Encoder, plug in the AVI and GOOOOOOOOOOO.