Record HDTV On Your home video recorder

[BJ_M]

January 10, 2003

CES 2003 - Record HDTV On Your PVR

DISH Network announced today that its new high definition DishPVR 921 satellite TV system was awarded top honors as the Best of Show in the Innovations Design and Engineering showcase in the Satellite Systems product category at the 2003 International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

The DishPVR 921 satellite TV receiver is a Personal Video Recording product with the ability to record both standard and high definition programming. DISH Network features five nationwide HDTV channels: CBS-HD, HBO-HD, SHOWTIME-HD, Discovery HD, DISH-On-Demand pay-per-view HD movies and a 24-hour HDTV demonstration channel. Using a massive 250 gigabyte hard drive, the DishPVR 921 is capable of recording up to 40 hours of high-definition programming, up to 250 hours standard definition programming, or any combination of the two. Other capabilities include the ability to record two programs at the same time while watching a third pre-recorded program, and picture-in-picture capabilities on any TV. More details including price and availability will be announced later this year.

Like all DISH Network satellite TV products, the DishPVR 921 is software upgradeable via satellite which provides consumers new capabilities instantly as they become available. Additional features include Caller ID, UHF/IR remote control for use between walls or cabinets, front panel jacks for future use with still or video cameras for capturing images to attach to e-mail, and additional USB connections for future interface with peripheral devices like printers, cameras, CD writers, etc. Standard functions include V-chip type technology for parental controls and an optical Dolby Digital output.

The DishPVR 921 will be on display at the Las Vegas Hilton at the Innovations 2003 booth no. 55083. Demonstrations are available at DISH Network's booth no. 25167 in the South Hall Jan. 9-12.

[Nelson37]

So far all of the HDTV recording products I have investigated are using some sort of proprietary encoding or encryption method such that the files created can ONLY be played back with the included software, which only functions if the device is present. No DVD standalone playback possible.

Any info on such a scheme being used in this device, or definite statements that it is NOT? Many companies do not make obvious.

[Thorn]

I think HDTV contracts require that nothing can decode HDTV and send it unencrypted to another device, so they all use some four-letter-word encryption. That's why if you buy a new TV the DVI should be capable of that (HDSC or something). So eventually devices should be able to communicate with each other, but any recording device will probably be so overly restricted as to not be useful.
Unless things change for the better, I don't see HDTV technology being open and useful. I think it will take a longer time to gather momentum because everyone is worried about copy protection more than usefulness.

[BJ_M]

i have no problems recording HD signal from a StarChoice HD reciever with the component output. Of course you need a card able to do this. But its not encrypted.

[BJ_M]

the samsung set top box will even convert HDTV output to s-video for you

http://www.1-877camcorder.com/sirt151.html

[The village idiot]

The MyHD and WinTV hdtv cards say that they will record to disk without encrypting the stream.

[BJ_M]

so will the HiPix DTV-200

[Thorn]

Sorry, I was meaning they can't output the original digital signal unencrypted (as far as I know) so the S-Video and component outputs would probably still be allowed (although some are calling for blocking analog outputs from future HDTV decoders), but I've heard that the signal wouldn't be 720p or 1080i. On the other hand, component output would probably be more than good enough for any personal use.

BTW I'm talking about the US, other countries may be more reasonable than what Hollywood and the cable companies want here. Also, sorry if I'm mixing up what is currently available and what they're planning for the near future: since I don't own this stuff myself yet I'm periodically doing research but I haven't read up in the last few days.

Anyway, if my parania is unfounded the DishPVR might be extremely cool.

[The village idiot]

Thanks BJ_M, I forgot the name of that one. Here is a link that might help some about ATSC HD cards http://www.inmatrix.com/articles/atsc3.shtml

As far as the DTV/DISH recorders go, I think they record the encypted stream, so you would still need your CAM to decrypt and watch the program.

At any rate, those recorders are nice.

[BJ_M]

yes - that is a great guide and should be reprinted here really if it is allowed ..

[n6nfg]

BJ_M
i have no problems recording HD signal from a StarChoice HD reciever with the component output. Of course you need a card able to do this. But its not encrypted.

Does anyone know where I can still buy a Digital VCR that permits
recording from a component source? I have a Mitsubishi HD DSS
receiver that I would love to be able to record from. Direct TV has
all of its HD content on East Coast feeds, and I would love to time
shift them for my West Coast viewing. A few years ago such VCR's
existed, but I believe that they were all pulled...

-n6nfg

[BJ_M]

BJ_M
i have no problems recording HD signal from a StarChoice HD reciever with the component output. Of course you need a card able to do this. But its not encrypted.

Does anyone know where I can still buy a Digital VCR that permits
recording from a component source? I have a Mitsubishi HD DSS
receiver that I would love to be able to record from. Direct TV has
all of its HD content on East Coast feeds, and I would love to time
shift them for my West Coast viewing. A few years ago such VCR's
existed, but I believe that they were all pulled... :(

-n6nfg

http://www.inmatrix.com/articles/atsc3.shtml thats what this is about

[n6nfg]

Thanks BJ_M

These cards would probably work, but I was really after the
standalone digital VCR product that uses a digital VHS tape,
not a computer assisted board.

My wife could never handle the computer aspect of recording
and playing back a program!

-n6nfg

[BJ_M]

Thanks BJ_M

These cards would probably work, but I was really after the
standalone digital VCR product that uses a digital VHS tape,
not a computer assisted board.

My wife could never handle the computer aspect of recording
and playing back a program!

-n6nfg

you can still buy them
http://www.epinions.com/JVC_HMDH30000U_HDTV_D_VHS_Recorder__VCR_HMDH30000U

not too expensive either .. $650

Its D-VHS HS (High Speed) mode operates on an incredible 28.2 Mbps data transfer rate, clearly surpassing even the 19.3 Mbps ATSC standard for HDTV broadcasts. And with its enormous 50 GigaByte capacity per cassette(a) which provides 4 hours of full HD recording on a single cassette(a), it will be possible to record an entire feature-length hi-def movie without having to change tapes midway. In addition, this model also features the D-VHS STD mode (14.1 Mbps transfer rate) for standard-definition digital recording in MPEG2 format, and the LS3 mode (4.7 Mbps transfer rate) which enables an incredible 24 hours of MPEG2 digital recording per cassette(a). Although D-VHS is a totally digital recording technology separate from analog VHS, JVC nevertheless made sure that people who buy the HM-DH30000U can continue enjoying their accumulated analog collections too. With the HM-DH30000U's multi-format recording/playback capability, users will be able record and view in analog VHS, Super VHS, and Super VHS ET, in addition to digital D-VHS.

[Ste]

The problem with that VCR is that it doesn't have its own decoder built in, so you need a seperate set-top box unless your TV has it built in. AND the set-top box must also have a FireWire connection, because it can only record through such a connection. This is the only way to record HDTV on that VCR, though you can still record analog broadcasts to VHS and S-VHS with the A/V inputs. The only box I know of that is currently available with a FireWire connection is the Samsung SIR-T165.

[BJ_M]

amaizing really that you can record just about film resolution this way for around $1000 .. and they are so worried about dvd copys?

capture and playback of 1080 material at full data rate makes dvd look weak.. that 50gig per 4 hours is a bit of a stretch though as that is likly for 480p , 1080 would give you about 35minutes per tape , but 720 would give you 2 hours ..

[n6nfg]

The 1394 aspect of these digital VCR's is exactly my problem!

I got my HD receiver and TV one year to early, before Mitsubishi
encorporated the 1394 interface. All I have is component video
between the two devices. For a period of less then a year, a few
VCR manufacturers offered a digital VCR that would record HD
from the component output of the HD receiver, and deliver it
in component form to the TV. There was little/no copyright
protection with such a device, and I suspect this is why they were
all pulled from the market.

I would love to find one of these guys for sale somewhere, but I
don't remember the manufacturers or model numbers. JVC seems
to ring a bell, but without more specifics it is difficult to do an EBAY
search. Anyone with one probably would never part with it anyway!

-n6nfg