Pinnacle Studio 8/9 and DV home video editing

[donpedro]

I would realy sugest manual chapter adding. It is not that difficult once you understand how it works

[jjvb]

I tried to manually set some chapters. However, I have another problem. I go to Toolbox, Set Menu Links and as soon as my cursor goes over the Set Chapter link icon, PS8 quits to windows. It doesn't matter what I have loaded as far as a project. I have tried 5 or six times with the same result.

Maybe I will try to reinstall PS8. This is the first software that I have not been able to make work for me. Maybe I have just been lucky.

[donpedro]

Well... it can act funny sometimes... Sorry to hear that. Maybe you should just go back to old, more stable version for you or just quit diong things that makes it crash.

[Ronaldus]

I read this thread with interest because I'm using Pinnacle Studio 8.10.4.0 which came with my camcorder. Since I need variable bit rate encoding (PS only seems to support constant bit rate) and I want to encode audio to 2-channel AC3, I can only use PS for the capturing and editing steps. After I get this part down I will learn TMPGEnc.

I want to make sure I'm capturing and editing correctly with no loss in quality. First, PS's capture settings ("Capture Format") give me no options except the preset. When the "DV" preset is selected, PS says "capture at full DV quality", the video compression (Codec) says "DV Video Encoder", and audio says PCM 16-bit stereo 48-kHz.

Next I edit my captured AVI file and re-save as AVI. PS gives me 4 Codec choices for this: Cinepak by Radius, DV Video Encoder, Indeo video 5.10, and Intel Indeo video R3.2. Under the "Make AVI File" tab, if I select "List All Codecs" I get 8 more Codecs that are meaningless to me. Hopefully it's OK for me to ignore them.

I've been using the "DV Video Encoder" Codec for the AVI re-save because this thread says doing that does not re-render the AVI file and therefore does not lose any quality (and it's faster too). Since saving an edited 20 minute AVI took very little time (roughly 5-10 minutes) I guess that proves it's not re-rendering?

Is "DV Video Encoder" the best Codec for me to choose for the initial AVI capturing and for re-saving my AVI after making my edits so that I can take the final AVI and load it into TMPGEnc or whatever other encoding utility I choose?

[jjvb]

I found out what was going on with trying to set chapter links. It kicks me out to windows if I don't have a menu selected before I try to set the links. It would be nice if it gave you an error message saying select a menu before setting links. Anyway, I got the chapter links manually set.

I then did create disc and got the failed to compile disc error. I then deleted the entire auxillary directory and tried again. This time it created the disc. I am going to burn it this morning and see what it looks like.

[jjvb]

Ronaldus,

As long as your avi isn't getting re-coded, you shouldn't lose a lot of quality. As far a as AC3 audio, I have been using mp2 audio with no problems. The audio from my camcorder is average quality mono anyway, so quality is not a consideration. MP2 is readily available in most applications. So far, MP2 audio has played fine in my NTSC dvd player. From what I have read, MP2 seems to be compatible with most stand alone players.

You could capture avi with other programs. WinDV is a free one. VirtualDub will work as long as you aren't using firewire (I think). You can also use VirtualDub or TMPGenc to convert the audio and video to separate streams. Then convert the audio and use and authoring program to pull them back together.

Scenalyzer works well for capturing. I bought Scenalyzer as I was having a ton of dropped frames capturing with PS8. I am capturing vhs tapes converted to avi with a Conapus advc-100. One tape had over 2000 dropped frames in five minutes with PS8 and none using scenalyzer.

[jjvb]

Well I just viewed the dvd I made last night. It is completely screwed up. Some of the menu buttons do not go to the proper chapter. I have a 13 minute segment for one of my chapters and it plays for about 10 seconds then goes to the next segment. The audio and video are way out of sinc about halfway through.

I went back and viewed the source in PS8 and everything worked perfectly. Each menu button went to the proper starting poing. The chapters played through properly and there was no video/audio sinc problems.

I am finished with PS8. At this poing I think it is P**** of S*** 8. Anyway, I am glad some people are having luck with it. I am going to download the trial of TMPGenc DVD Author tonite. Hope it works better.

[donpedro]

Is "DV Video Encoder" the best Codec for me to choose for the initial AVI capturing and for re-saving my AVI after making my edits so that I can take the final AVI and load it into TMPGEnc or whatever other encoding utility I choose?

That is what I believe so. Based on time you can see that it is not re-encoding and for me "no re-encoding = best option".

[dawillie]

donpedro and will,

Remember the discussion about washed out projects a while back?

Seems I'm not totally crazy. I was sent this by a kind fellow. Check it out:

http://www.signvideo.com/dv-black-levels-dvd-authoring-mpeg-2-part-1.htm

Can't believe I was the only one complaining.

Dave

[dawillie]

jjvb, let us know how TMPGenc DVD Author works out.

[donpedro]

http://www.signvideo.com/dv-black-levels-dvd-authoring-mpeg-2-part-1.htm

Thanks for info. I didn't know that it MiniDV part of "black level" issue.

[jjvb]

I tried TMPGenc DVD Author (TDA) for the first time last night. Within an hour I had pulled in two 30 minute clips and put out a DVD. The editing portion is on the GOP level, so you really can't just delete one frame at a time. More like 15 or so. No big deal for me. It is very easy to pull in and organize clips. It is aso easy to set up chapters and menus. It may be a little limited in the menu area, but it has more than enough options for what i need to do. Ironically, I pulled in a bunch of the artwork from Pinnacle Studio 8 for more variety on the menu pages.

Another possible limitation is that you cannot import avi. It must be mpeg. I used TMPGenc to convert my captured avi to mpeg first.

TDA worked flawlessly. Not a single hang or glitch. The DVD played exactly as I had set it up. I really like it. I would definitely recommend trying it for the 30-day free period. After using it once, I plan to purchase it.

[donpedro]

Another possible limitation is that you cannot import avi. It must be mpeg.

Yep ! That is what programs that do only DVD Authoring require. Some even need separate audio and video.

[petsin]

Well, concerning the black level shift, it seems that I am not the only one at last, but I posted in the wrong forum perhaps: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=200997

Anyway, after reading this thread and the povided links, I am still in doubt on how to correct the washed out MPEG2 files. I have now tried PS8, TMPGenc Plus and CCE SP, and all of them produce about the same shifting up of the black level when converting DV AVI to mpeg2.

As of TMPGEnc, I have not figured out how to get it to produce the right interlacing. PS8 and CCE produce nice mpeg2 output with no interlace problems (CCE needs to have the Top Field first set) but TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 keep producing mpeg2 with the typical interlace problem of double vertical lines when the camera pans horizontally (no effect in this case when choosing Top or Bottom field first) Could it be a bug in this version?

Any clue on how to eliminate the black level shift?

[gumpec]

What's a difference in quality between HQ and SP by the same other conditions (like program etc.). Can you see it (and hear it) in normal conditions??? Is somebody already try to compare?

[jjvb]

petsin,

I am capturing avi after conversion from vhs by a canopus advc-100. I have used PS8, windv and scenalyzer to capture. Scenalyzer is the only one I haven't had serious frame drops with. I have converted to dvd compliant mpeg2 with both ps8 and TMPGenc. I have not had either washed out color problems or interlacing problems. Perhaps you have a problem with your source. Is it a digital camcorder? I don't have one so know nothing of what might be causing a problem.

I have done a lot of experimenting with the settings in TMPGenc. From what my eyes tell me, there is not a whole lot of quality difference over a wide range of settings. However, there can be a huge difference in encoding times. There are a couple of guides out there that go through all of the settings in TMPGenc.

[donpedro]

What's a difference in quality between HQ and SP by the same other conditions (like program etc.). Can you see it (and hear it) in normal conditions??? Is somebody already try to compare?

Quality is subjective to each person. You can get answer from "no difference at all" to "it is so bad that I don't even thik about it". You have to see by yourself.

BTW: Is there even HQ and SP option ? All I know is bittrate difference.

[sheryl]

I am very new to this so please forgive me if I sound confused about what I'm talking about but I'm trying to burn a DVD from 2 videos clips I captured using Pinnacle Studio 8. 10.4. Both videos are around 30 mins long and took me nearly 3 hours each to make the files I needed to burn to a DVD.
Since I wasn't sure what I was doing, I burned one video on a DVD-RW, just to test things out and found the quality was excellent. Now I'd like to combine both clips onto one DVD using Nero 6.0, but I didn't realize the files created for burning have the exact same names so I can do this. I thought I could add a 1 or something to the duplicate file names, but I see you can only use certain names when burning DVDs.
I was going to start over, combining both video clips into one and creating the file I'd need for burning but since I'd already used up almost my entire 40 GB hard drive, I figured I'd better delete some files before creating this large file only now I've seemed to run into another problem, my captured clips are no longer showing up as Studio 8 files. They've turned into Windows Media Files and are both close to 5 GBs in size.
I'm assuming I deleted something from my computer that I shouldn't have deleted.

I saved the 2 complete folders which created the VIDEO_TS files on a DVD-RW. Is there any way of combining these so I can burn them on 1 DVD-R? If not, it seems I'm going to have to start all over from the beginning.
Sheryl

[jjvb]

I am by no means an expert at this, but I don't believe you can do what you are trying to do. It has to do with the way a dvd is structured. I have been combining two thirty minute clips together then burning to dvd as one.

Do yourself a favor and add another hard drive. I just saw an 80-gig western digital hard drive for $19.99 after rebate. Hard drive space is cheap anymore.

[sheryl]

Thanks for trying to help me and thanks for the advice on another hard drive. I just had this computer built for me at a computer fair and never thought I'd need more then 40 GBs of hard drive space since my old computer had that much room and I only used about 15GBs of it. Of course, I wasn't burning DVDs on it so I didn't realize how much room I needed to complete these projects.
I know this is off topic and I'm not sure if it's ok to ask it here, but do you know if I have to put an operating system on a second hard drive? I'm running winxp.
Sheryl

[jjvb]

No need for an os on the other hard drive. I put my computer together last year with an 80 gig hd. I just added a 160 gig hd before I started messing with this video stuff. Just put it in and use it for storage of your video files. Remember to defrag occasionally to help keep the hd transfer speed up.

[sheryl]

Thanks again. I'm going to look into a second hard drive.

[donpedro]

sheryl, It would be best to open new post with your problem. You can send me than link to it and I promise that I would like to help you as much as I can.

Shortly. If you lost (deleted) original captured files, it is going to be harder, but there is a way how to "extract" files from you DVD's.

[gumpec]

Don Pedro wrote:
"Quality is subjective to each person. You can get answer from "no difference at all" to "it is so bad that I don't even thik about it". You have to see by yourself.

BTW: Is there even HQ and SP option ? All I know is bittrate difference..."

Yes, that's right! But when SP equals cca. 120 minutes of recording, thats only 31% of quality or cca. 3000 bittrate. If I understand correctly, for example, 77 minutes is something between HQ and SP (81% of quality) and difference it isn't significant...

[cindy3009]

I have been a lurker for over a year at this site and have done pretty good for a dummy thanks to alot of smart people here. Have done several photo video's for myself and family using Studio 8. I myself am thankful for studio 8 and have had few problems with it (except hanging up everyonce in awhile). Now I have captured & saved my 1st home video (as a avi) from my high 8 camcorder using ADVC-100. All went well, no lost frames. I edited it, added titles, menu, etc. It was 1 hour 19 minutes and wouldn't fit on disc when I tried to make disc. I was then just going to save it on my hard drive and shrink with DVDshrink but it wouldn't let me. I then let it automatically make it fit to disc which was 70%. Is this acceptable? Should I use other software and if so at what point? I do want to save as mpeg 2 and use as backup but at what point should I do this? Thanks for your help in advance.

[donpedro]

I then let it automatically make it fit to disc which was 70%. Is this acceptable?

I will always answer.... Try and see if it is acceptable for you. Nobody else can decide for you.

About other software for encoding.... I am going to refer to section in first post in this topic.

1. After editing save result in DV AVI
"Codec that I use to create AVI file to prepare for another MPEG coder"

2. Encode with for example TMPGEnc (look for help from someone that know a lot about it, I don't).

3. Now you need to author. You can try to use PS8 or another tool (f.e. TMPGEnc DVD Author). For use of PS8 read this
"How to author with MPEG files that were encoded by TMPGEnc without re-encoding"
From version 8.8 SmartRender works for mpeg2, so comments about "not modifying" file are not 100% true anymore.

[jjvb]

cindy3009,

So it reduced the bitrate to make it fit on one dvd?? An average bitrate of approximately 8000 will fill a dvd (one hour of video). So at 70% you would be at a bitrate of 5600. Am I understanding what was done? Is the quality good enough for you?

My process is converting vhs to avi using an advc-100. I store the avi on my hard drive with Scenalyzer. I had terrible frame drop rates with PS8. I use TMPGenc to encode to mpeg2 for dvd. I then use TMPGenc DVD Author (TDA) to create the dvd (menu, chapter stucture) and burn it to disc. The burner in TDA works quite well. I was using PS8 to pull in the avis and author and create the dvd. I was having too many problems with "Failed to compile disc" errors with PS8 so I tried TDA. It does what I need it to and hasn't had any problems yet.

[cindy3009]

Thank both of you for your suggestions. When I get home this afternoon I will look at my options. Also jjvb, yes the bitrate was reduced to 5600.
As far as the quaility it wasn't that great. Since this is my first try with video I don't really know how good it could be since it is analog. I know it took forever to render, compile, and burn. But I am not complaining. It is easy, I just need to expand my horizon I guess.

[jjvb]

cindy3009,

As far as quality, I took a one minute clip (due to the time involved) and did a lot of experimenting with it to figure out what it took to get the best output. Changed bitrates, encoding options in TMPGenc, etc. Get a couple of DVD RW discs so you can rewrite and watch them without wasting discs. The quality of the original is also a big factor. You cannot get a finished product that looked as good as the original, but you should be able to get close.

[cindy3009]

Ok, a couple more dumb questions. By encode, that means the render stage in S8 right? Also, should I not add chapters, titles, or menu's until I use the other software to encode. I guess I am just confused with the order of things. I have already added these but if I save as mpeg and then go to encode software then it won't work right?