Capture with Vdub and edit with Studio 8 question

[Scar]

Hi

When i've captured a movie from my VHS in AVI (Huffyuv) with Virtualdub in 352x288, i wan't to edit the movie with Studio 8 and then convert to SVCD with TMPGenc.

The question is : after editing with Studio 8 i need to render the movie (to Avi)
What codec should i use for rendering ??

I don't wanna loose any quality from the original capture.


thx....

Scar

[ajrecs]

Use Studio 8 to save it as a DV AVI file (720 x 480). It's a big file, but you can you back and reedit it if you need to. TMPGenc will accept this file and render your SVCD without problem. I get beautiful results doing it just this way. Then I use Nero for the final burn.

Good luck!

[donpedro]

I am not sure... but I think that DV AVI is good only if you capture in DV AVI (firewire digital capture). And I would assume that if you save to same format that you captured it should avoid any conversion (=loose of quality) but I might be wrong (works with DV AVI->DV AVI scenario, it renders only transition and title sections).

[Scar]

Hi

thx for the responce.
I believe that DV is no option cuzz i'm working with analogue video here, but i'm not sure so i'll try it.

I tried to do Huffyuv again after editing, like the original capturing, funny thing is that it indeed only renders the transitions, the video footage is gone, just snow left......

I've tried the IYUV instead and that seems to work (also gives large files and takes lot's of time), dunno if this one is lossless, but it seems it is.

Scar

[ajrecs]

Understand... it's worth a try, although you can also encode with other codecs in the Make AVI section of Studio 8.

[DJRumpy]

Consider DivX, Xvid, or MPEG-4. They are all variants of one another. With proper settings, they exceed the quality of MPEG-2 DVD. They are not lossless however, meaning any future edits would take a hit on quality if you re-encode. You can easily fit 90 minutes of high resolution video into around 700 MB.

[Scar]

I've bin playing around with Divx for quite some time, good quality but not playable on the standalone.......(not mine anyways.. ...)

[DJRumpy]

Sorry scar, I didn't know you wanted to play these on a standalone. Asking which codec to use led me to believe you were open to other options besides standlone compatable format's like MPEG-1 and MPEG-2, and not asking a conversion type question.

With that in mind, considering you want to retain all of your quality during the conversion process, the best option is the Huffman codec. It's lossless (meaning no loss in quality), and it's fast. The compression ratio tends to run around 2.1 to 1, or as high as 2.4 to 1. Of course, you can also go uncompress, but with Huffy, there's no need. If you do use huffy, then I would suggest you use the CONVERT TO YUY2 option. The documentation says this conversion is slightly lossy, but I have yet to notice any difference. If there is a loss there, I can't see it. If your having problems with Huffy, make sure you select the OPTIONS for the codec. There are troubleshooting options that will allow for different outputs which may resolve your problem. I always use 'Predict Left' for the YUY2 compression method, and 'Convert to YUY2' for the RGB compression method. These seem to play well with my other software. You can also enable 'Always suggest RGB format for output' if you have a specific app that doesn't seem to like the codec.

Besides Huffman, any Lossless codec will serve your needs. I suggest huffy, because you can't beat the price. It's free.

[Scar]

Sorry scar, I didn't know you wanted to play these on a standalone.

NP Rump, my fault i didn't stated it in the question.....

Like i said earlier in my posting, i always capture with huffyuv, setting "predict median" & "predict gradient" i don't have any problems with them, but i actually never tested the setting u suggest, so i'll give that a go as well....not nowing what they exactly do but...wtf....i'll try.

The intial problem i had is solved, after editing the captured AVI, i now use IYUV for rendering the movie, gives large files but it seems as if there is no quality loss.

But there is a question that is still nagging in my brain......

I capture from VHS, hardly any frameloss, resolution @ 352x288, and i suspect that that is to low for what i want, i convert (after editing with S8) with TMPGenc to SVCD ( header trick needed for the DVD player, works great)
I use just about all settings maxed out for getting the best quality in TMPGenc.........and i still don't like what i see, i mean it's ok but i'm sure it can be better........

Back to resolution, do need to go higher for better quality ??
All i tried.......and i tried alot (IE directly to SVCD resolution 480x576)... to capture higher then 352X288 gave an interlaced video, and it seems that either my DVD player doesn't like that or i'm doing summat wrong, the video is very stuttering and lot's of blockiness (in high movement scenes), i tried de-interlacing but that gave me just about the same result as the 352x288.
I also tried to re-arrange field order, and no improvement.

IMO it must be possible to convert to MPEG2 without de-interlacing the video and keep the interlaced video, on the PC it looks as if it's more "alive" then the de-interlaced footage, and when i play it on the DVD.....ohboy it looks terrible......

ohoh.......i devirted a bit from my initial question......

Scar

[DJRumpy]

If your going to SVCD, then I would capture at the closest resolution, which for you is 480x576. There is no reason that you should have to de-interlace if you don't want to, as your final product will be viewed on a television. The reasons for de-interlacing have to do with bitrate, and space and sometimes with quality if your material is telecined to 29.976 frames per second. If a your source material was telecined (you didn't say exactly what you were pulling off of VHS), then it is usually a good practice to inverse telecine it (IVTC) back to the original 23.976 frames per second. You then speed it up 1 frame per second (give or take), to change it to PAL, if you so desire. This saves you valuable bitate for the movie quality, rather than for the extra frames per second. Check out www.lukesvideo.com under the identifying Hi-Res video section to learn how to identify telecined material. If your source material is true interlace, then leave it as it is. You gain nothing by trying to de-interlace it.

A fast and dirty way to IVTC is via VirtualDub. Open the AVI (or frameserver file). Under the VIDEO menu, select FRAME RATE. For the Source Rate Adjustment, leave it on 'No Change'. For the Inverse Telecine section, set it to 'Reconstruct From Fields - Adaptive'. Save a small bit of the avi (you can cancel the process at any time..does this sound like a satellite dish offer or what? ). I usually let it run for a minute or two, and then cancel, and view the result to see how it looks. You should end up with a progressive (non-interlaced) 23.976 frames per second AVI.

One last thing..what settings are you using in TMPGenc for your SVCD's?

[Scar]

Hi

I'm capturing my old VHS tapes from the kids 'n stuff like that.

Pretty straight forward capturing in PAL.
So IMO i don't need to telecine.....(i think)

Bin to Luke's site, and one thing i read there was that interlaced images are harder to convert, that could offcourse be the source of the trubbles i'm having with interlaced video's, i also saw that resolution doesn't need to be that high, i'm thinking of capturing half sized resolution for SVCD just to try it out.

My settings in TMPGenc :

Source looks like this in TMPGenc wizard :
Type = non-interlace
Aspect ratio = 4:3 625 line (pal 704x576)

Output settings :

mpeg2 480x576
Dislpay 4:3
25 FPS
CBR@2520 (VBR gives sound troubles)
Noise settings default only high quality mode is tagged on.
Motion search : Highest quality

All others are just about default, these settings seem to work the "best"

I just did a 42 minutes movie from tha kids like this, took just over 15 hrs before it was done.

........ .....darn.....796 MB and it won't fit on a CD ?!......GGrrrrr...

Scar

[DJRumpy]

796 should fit on a 700 MB CD without an issue. Remember, that video can be stored at about 10 MB per minute, meaning you should be able to get about 830 megabytes on a 700MB CD if your CD supports overburn, or 800 without overburn.

[Scar]

I messed up the header trick, now it fit's.

Scar