authoring movies on dvd-r that are over 120 minutes

[JAke!]

Im trying to burn movies that are over 120 minutes on a 4.7 GB DVD-r disk. I’ve tried re-encoding the video to millions of different formats but for the life of me I can NOT get it to fit on a 4.7 GB DVD-r. I tried using Sonic DVD, DVD CopyPlus 4.2, Ulead DVD MovieFactory and all of them tell me it’s too 'big' (i assume thay are reffering to length, but i can't be sure).

I was at best buy and they had 120 minutes DVD-r disks and 4 hour dvdr's, BOTH were 4.7 GB. I didn't understand that so I asked some dude who was working there. He explained that they both have the same data capacity, but when I burned movies on the 4 hour disk the quality would be worse than the 120 minute disk. I didn’t really get that, because I would think that the burning program would be the one that changes the quality of the movie, not the media. I bought the 120 minute media because it was cheaper and I thought I could just re encode the video to a lower quality and fit it on a disk. this doesnt work though.

Basically, im freakin confused the movies are about 800mb and the authoring app tells me the movie cannot fit on a 4.7gb disk....UH??

ps: so i don't get flamed by people assuming im trying to burn dvd rips, they are NOT illegal. my friend video tapes a lot of skating videos, and he compiled a few videos, each video totaling from 800mb up to 1 gb. they are basically all over 120 minutes long...

[kitty]

You can encode as 1/2D1 which is 352x480 MPEG2 video and 48khz audio. It is alot like CVD but different audio sampling rate. It is a legal valid DVD format accepted by most authoring programs. You should get alot more video on a disc.

[furball6969]

For a 2 hour clip (7200 sec) you mave a maximum total combined bitrate of 5100 kbit/sec, if your program is converting to WAV audio that will acount for 1500 kbit/sec so you have 3600 kbit MAX left for video. Leaving some room for the authoring files and muxing overhead I would not go higher than 3500 kbit/sec or 3.4MBit/sec. If you are using a program that can encode to AC3 audio then, of course, you can change the bitrates accordingly.

[mikerios]

going over 2 hours is not a problem. I use TMPEGEnc and load up the KDVD template ( from www.kvcd.net ) and encode to mpeg2 file standard 720 x 480 and I lower the audio bitrate to about 192bit ( have yet to try just he m2v file and then mux with ac3 with Kwag's templates .) or set for 2 pass VBR and adjust my bitrate to 1000 min, 4200 max and 3600 average ( and adjust as neccesary ) for just video stream, later I mux with the ac3 file. This is good if the movie is slightly over 120 mins ( The Towering Inferno for example ) as picture quality still looks good ( except on really dark scenes then you see blocks on the blackest of areas but I accept the trade off.) The only thing I do is set my frames for 29.97 instead of 23.97 with pulldown, this is because DVD Workshop does not handle 23.97 fps encoded movies and the chapter stops are not in synch. I use DVD Workshop version 1.3 for the authoring process. I use Record Now Max v 4.5 for the actual burn of the vob files.

I have never seen 4 hours dvd-r's unless it a double sided dvd-r then it makes sesne, but since you say it only 4.7 Gb total ( 4.3 actual ) then to my knowledge there is no extended or LP mode for dvd-r ( for computer dvd-r units anyways). I know home DVD-R units ( Panasonic set top ) can record beyond 2 hours, but then it's probally encoding at lower bitrates to get the data to fit on a 2 hour disc. Hence you have to do it in the encoding stage.

I personally do like the authoring programs to do the encoding, but rather leave all my encoding duties to TMPEGEnc ( and some Ulead products now suppoirt external encoding programs via there new plug in ) and authoring for DVD Workshop.

[JAke!]

thanks for the replies, i'll give most of the suggesntions a try, and ill report back. thanks again!

edit: www.kcvd.net isnt working...do i need the template?

[JAke!]

mikerios: i re encoded my videos using TMPEGEnc and i used the 'convert to dvd format' mode. i had the bitrate set to 2500, res 720 x 480, audio i tried both CBR and 192kb, i tried 23.97FPS and 29.97FPS. TMPEGEnc even has a little predicted file size after conversion bar...i i adjusted everything well below of the 4.7gb limit...and yet Sonic DVD tells me that the movie is too large. im trying to get an evaluation copy of Record Now Max or DVD Workshop, and trying to see how those work out

[mikerios]

err my mistake it's www.kvcd.net

a bit of dyslexia perhaps


as for Sonic it can be a bit freaky if the file is not the way it expects the video to be ( 720x480 48khz, mpeg2 29fps.. though i have yet to deviate from these specs, for this reason I do not use the program ). Even Ulead DVD Movie Factory is a bit picky ( prefering the 29 fps ) but it's simple , you can iuse mpg2 files longer than 2 hours, though chapter stops after 2 hour mark get iffy, it will author them ( but chapter stops will get out of synch with the thumbnail as it progesses and you might get the dreaded audio synch issue that later patches v 1.2 and 1.3 fixed ), where as DVD Workshop will handle 2 plus hours ( at 29 fps ) no problem and do chatper stop correctly ( again once pathed to at least v 1.2 ) I usually set mine for 5 min intervals and get about 30 chapter stops on a 3 hour movie. Please be aware that demo version of DVD Workshop cannot be patched, I do not know if Ulead has renewed the demos and updated them as well, as version 1.0 of either DVD Movie Factory or DVD Workshop is buggy and can be tempermental ( espceially once you break the 2 hour mark ).

[mikerios]

btw since your setting you bitrate so low, you might to think of setting the format to 704 x 480 and you'll be better off as 2500 is fine for svcd, but a bit low for dvd at 720 x 480. Either that or drop it down to 352 x 480 ( half ) and that bitrate will be fine.

[Cornucopia]

This is a common problem with the "SIMPLE" authoring tools--they only burn uncompressed LPCM audio. No AC3, No mp2, no DTS. This severely hampers your ability to put long programs on a single-sided 4.7 DVD recordable. Usually only 1-2 hours max. Too much is being reserved for your audio.

There are workarounds--MUCH lower bitrate for the video, lower bitrate + 1/2 D1 (352x480) or MPG1 SIF (352x240) resolutions, and/or heavy use of VBR. They are bad compromises for a problem which can be remedied simply by moving up to a more powerful and robust app. One that can handle most or all of the audio formats and won't automatically re-encode for you.

Examples:
Sonic/Daikin Scenarist
Sonic ReelDVD
Sonic DVDProducer
Sonic DVD-It PE
Spruce Maestro/Conductor/Virtuoso
Pinnacle Impression DVD Pro
and others.

furball6969 was on the right track, and his figures are correct too.

Let's say you've got a video = 132 minutes.
=7920 sec
Put onto a DVD-R Single-sided = 4.37 GB
=35799.04 Mb
Bitrate to fit must be <= 4.52 Mbps or 4628.56 kbps AVG. Actually should be slightly less cuz of authored stream overhead.

If your audio is uncompressed stereo LPCM, that's 1378.125 kbps just for audio!
This leaves you with an allowed maximum AVERAGE BR of 3250.435 kbps. That's not much better than SVCD, especially when the bits are being spread out onto greater resolution screensize.

But if you use audio in AC3 stream format, using-say-192 kbps, you've still got 4436.56 kbps. Still not great, but much better than 3250.
How do the movie studios do it with longer movies?
Double-density discs, i.e. DVD-9.
And there won't be double-density DVD-recordables for a long time, if ever.
Since your videos have sports action going on, it might be better to bring the audio down even lower (slightly-to 160 or 128 kbps), and/or try 1/2 D1. And do make use of VBR!

HTH,

Scott

[mikerios]

DVD Workshop will handle a mpeg2 file with ac3 encoding, it just will not mux a m2v file and a ac3 file inside the authoring program, rather you'll get a message ( about a a3c encoded mpeg 2 file ) saying the audio is not DVD complaint and ask if you want to continue anyways, and it will also not re render the mpeg2 file.

[unclebud]

JaKe!
Just how large is the mpg file you are creating? Aim for just over 4gb, you cannot create a DVD Video with a file larger then 4.34gb,
Its a numbers thing having to do with 1 gb is 1024 kbytes. I've seen an explanation for it but I don't fully get it.
Also about 6 months ago the Ulead Movie Factory v1 ($50) had a bug in it that would not allow you to use a file larger then 4gb. Maybe they fixed it.

[Cornucopia]

unclebud--
full DVD recordables = 4.7 Billion bytes (counting 1000s) = 4.37 GB (counting 1024s)

The software is trying to hedge its bets cuz it knows that it should NOT accept a file that will be too big for the target disc. I don't think that they consider it a bug, so it wouldn't be fixed.

More powerful software that works with disc sizes other than DVD recordables (e.g. DVD-9, DVD-10, DVD-14, DVD-18 ) WILL accept larger files, but then the output would have to end up on a Mass-replicated disc. That's what separates the men from the boys, so to speak (talking from the perspective of an old boy/young man).

Still, 4.37 GB can be alot if you fiddle with the bitrates/resolutions/VBR, etc.

Good luck,

Scott

[JAke!]

thanks for your replies. i haven't had much time to fiddle around with it, but i'll give it another go tonight. First i'll try Cornucopia's suggestion of encoding the video to svcd specs. then see if i can author it. thanks again, i'll try and keep you updated

[Cornucopia]

Jake!--

I didn't say SVCD specs. SVCD resolution (480x480NTSC) is NOT supported by standard DVD spec. I said use 1/2 D1 resolution (352x480NTSC), which IS supported. This is also the resolution for CVD's. SVCD is otherwise called 2/3 D1.

Rest of what I said should be right.

Good luck,

Scott