DVD9 to DVD5 backup on Mac

[ozzie]

I am new to this but could someone provide me instructions or a guide on how to specifically accomplish this on the mac......it would be greatly appreciated...thanx

k

[Wizeman]

Assuming you use OS X (because I do), this is what you need... (for the easiest way I've found, anyway)

OSex
QuickTime w MPEG-2 export function
Any graphic/paint program
Mr BitBudget
DVD Studio Pro

1) Rip using OSex to Elementary Streams in chunks of roughly 40 min video each (I've heard lots of users having problems w QuickTime's MPEG-2 export feature for longer clips than that... I can go little over an hour, but then it gives me a white screen after that)

2) Use the graphic program to create and save a black .PICT in the proportion of your source material. For instance, a 16:9 video file means 720x404.

3) Use Mr BitBudget to calculate the maximum video bitrate in order for you to fit the entire contents of your DVD-9 on a DVD-5.

4) Open the PICT in QuickTime. Drag and drop the .m2v elementary stream you want to convert onto the black box in the QuickTime window. QuickTime will import it (takes a couple of minutes though) and consider the entire thing a great big PICT - enabling you to export to MPEG-2. Click Options, enter the correct aspect ratio and the bitrate you got from step 3.

5) Repeat step 4 until all your film files are done.

6) Head over to DVD Studio Pro to mux together the audio and video files and burn your DVD. I recommend using Toast for the burning though, I get better results that way than burning through DVDSP.

Merry X-mas

/Wizeman

[Ross]

This whole process is automated in MMT_EZ (see recent post).
No problem with large files, just rip by chapters to vobs. Chapter breaks will be retained during transcode.

[Wizeman]

I am looking forward to trying out MMT_EZ, however - automated usually implies that user input is very limited... quick-fix solutions aren't necessarily the best way to do something, even if it is an excellent entry for those without experience. Not to knock MMT_EZ or anything, quite the contrary - but I still believe that knowing how to do something manually (even if it's just small things like compromising bitrate on certain segments to boost others, or knowing which kind of audio tracks can go lower than 160 when making SVCDs etc etc) will benefit you in the long run. Just my 2 cents.

Merry X-mas everyone.

/Wizeman

[ozzie]

Who makes the MPEG encoder and exporter needed to use the automated program and where might I find them???? Thanx for all of the help

[DVdudeman]

Wizeman -- I tried your process on a backup of the matrix. It doesn't work. Terrible synch problems result.

While you can decrease the bit rate of the .m2v files using the QT cut & paste method that you describe, the resultant MPEG-2 files play at 29.97 FPS and this leads to inevitable synchronization problems with the original .ac3 audio streams. Not to mention the fact that chopping up the original .ac3 stream can be TRICKY at best.

I continue to see numerous posts on this very subject.

To ensure proper synchronization between audio & video, you must first remux the video stream to 23.98 FPS using mplex in MMT (or a similar application). This is a VERY important step -- and in my experience, is the best way to solve synchronization problems. Bilestyle has written up a procedure that works better than most (and there is a link to his web site with his recipe somewhere in this forum).

This same QT cut & paste process can be used post remux in MMT (I'm guessing that the new MMT_EZ application automates this process). After the video has been remuxed to 23.98 FPS, you can drop the pieces into a QT PICT file with the correct aspect ratio (either 3:4 or anamorphic). Only at this point will the audio synch properly with the video!

However, I must mention that I have experienced problems with the mplex routine in MMT. When I tried to backup the matrix, it produced under-runs (reported in the terminal application). I was unable to overcome this problem. Inspection of the remuxed files indicate proper synchronization throughout the first 4GB segment of the movie. The data is garbled at the very end, and this leads to a different type of synchronization problem (unrelated to frame rate).

Bottom line -- MMT solves the synchronization problem related to frame rate (a very important step forward). However, MMT does not seem to be able to properly segment the video stream into smaller MPEG-2 files. If this problem can be overcome, perhaps we will all have a viable tool for backing up DVD-9.

[Wizeman]

DVdudeman (and everyone else) - I am sorry to hear you've had so much problems using the method I outlined. Perhaps this is one more instance where PAL triumphs over NTSC - I'm in Sweden, and the DVDs I've degraded in this way (DVD-9 to DVD-5) have all been Region 2 PAL. Not a single one has been out of sync - the shortest bits being three minutes and the longest (consecutive) being almost three hours.

Never tried it with a Region 1 NTSC though, not yet anyway. I have quite a few of those discs, but I'm far too nervous to flash the firmware so I haven't started backing them up yet. I will keep you posted.

/Wizeman

P.S.
I've got 20+ backups thus far, so it's hardly a fluke. PAL source, and I stand by "my" method.

[bilestyle]

wizeman -

if your source is PAL you are going out of your way to make a good rip....

you can use any piece of software without ANY sync issues without the hassle of doing things in quicktime because PAL doesnt have the sync issues that we have for all NTSC sources.

plus you should NOT be dropping JUST the m2v file in quicktime because quicktime horribly chokes on files when its JUST video... (notice it takes about a half hour JUST for the video to appear??)

you would be better off ripping to elementary streams multiplexing and THEN dropping into quicktime, it will be much more effective. and if your vob files are over 4 gigs than im really surprised if you dont run into issues (do you preview your end files all the way through after encoding? ) quicktime has a nasty bug for vob/m2v files over 4 gigs where the encoding pauses on one particular frame and re-encodes the rest of the video to JUST that one frame (it wont appear that way in the preview window, but if you look at the end product after encoding it should prove to be a big problem.

but either way if your source material is PAL, why bother with quicktime?

[DVdudeman]

Hi Wize,

I suspected that you might be working with PAL rather than NTSC. In your case, you do not have to deal with the frame rate issues that us NTSC users here in the States are forced to contend with. Consider yourself fortunate because NTSC presents a rather significant challenge above and beyond PAL. I will not bother to reiterate what Bilestyle has already brought to everyone's attention earlier in the thread -- save to say that based upon my personal research, he is right on the mark.

Bilestyle -- I have tried both of the DVD-92DVD-5 downsampling methods highlighted on your web site. I offer the following feedback for you and others:

http://www.anycities.com/user/bilestyle/index.html

Bilestyle's first procedure "Process #3(1)" calls for transcoding the .m2v to a DV stream (no offense to Bile, but this is a real pain in the arse). In my experience (and I tried this with a backup of Scooby Doo) remuxing the video to the original .ac3 and transcoding to a DV stream does solve the synchronization problem -- PROVIDED THAT YOU DO NOT ENCOUNTER UNDER-RUNS DURING THE REMUX IN MMT. This did not present a problem for Scooby Doo -- but then again since the overall VIDEO_TS for Scooby is well under 4.7GB, it's a non issue.

Bile's second procedure "Process #3(2)" is basically the process described by Wize above -- save that it includes remuxing in MMT with segments less than 4GB.

When I backed up the Matrix, I had under-runs (btw, I followed the instructions to replace the mplex file in MMT with the newer one from ffmpegx).

What's the difference between Scooby Doo & The Matrix? Simple, Scooby Doo will easily fit on DVD-5 (absolutely no downsampling or segmenting required). The Matrix, on the other hand, will not. It runs about 02:16:15;01, and at a high bit rate is NOT a candidate for backing up to DVD-5 without lowering the "bit rate".

Therein lies the PROBLEM folks. When you truly need to downsample, the software that is currently available for OS X (10.1.5) chokes (I cannot speak for those applications designed for 10.2 "Jaguar").

MMT is indeed the right tool for the job -- if it were only reliable. MMT allows you to do something essential, it allows you to remux .m2v's produced by OSEx. However, I have found MMT's segmenting process to be unreliable. For example, when I remuxed the Matrix in MMT's mplex, I encountered under-run problems. This leads to synchronization problems down stream when you try to piece the movie segments back together in DVDSP or QT Pro.

NOTE -- the first segment is always PERFECT. Synch problems arise in segment 2 (and any others that follow). That is why this synchronization problem has an entirely different root cause than that experienced by people who fail to remux the frame rate to 23.98 fps.

Chicken or the egg dilemma: you must remux the stream to achieve 23.98 FPS and synchronization. However, the tools available for 10.1.5 fail to provide solid segmenting solutions!

Until this problem is resolved, 10.1.5 users have little chance of properly downsampling high bit rate .m2v for DVD-5 backup.


A word for the wise (and my 2 cents)...

I have wasted a great deal of time following half baked procedures for backing up DVD-9 to DVD-5 on this an several other web sites (for the Mac -- OS 10.1.5).

In my experience, there is yet to be seen a ROBUST procedure for completing the task at hand. I cannot speak for 10.2 tools such as Media Pipe (or MMT_EZ). Perhaps hope lies in this realm. In my humble opinion, DVD-9 to DVD-5 downsampling has a long way to go on the Mac (at least for users that have yet to jump to Jaguar).

[bilestyle]

i think you misunderstand, tools are not limited to 10.2, 10.2 cant do anything more in the downsampling and encoding department. its just that for a lot of the GUI programs written in applescript studio (anything by me, major or rnc is in applescript) and some things are coded differently for 10.1.5 and 10.2 (in theory) so thats the only reason people say these options are not supported on anything under 10.2 because they are programmed in 10.2.

either way i still advise the upload to 10.2, it is well worth it.

afropic has yet to fail for me in syncing vobs over 4.3 to a 4.3 gig dvd or converting to svcds, just because 10.1.5 and lower arent supported by my software, doesnt mean they wont work. MMT_EZ would probably work on earlier systems too -- maybe you just need to upgrade your developer tools... anyways upgrading to 10.2 is really the best advice i can give anyways on the whole.

[Zapfrank]

Wizeman-

1) Rip using OSex to Elementary Streams in chunks of roughly 40 min......

Am I right to select some chapters in OSex till I have nearly the 40 min you responded?


2) Use the graphic program......
3) Use Mr BitBudget ....
4) Open the PICT in QuickTime....
5) Repeat step 4 until all your film files are done....

So I have 2, 3 or 4 film files at the end of this procedure, right?

6) Head over to DVD Studio ....

How can I import the ac3 parts of the chunks into DVD Studio Pro? There is only the first Ac3 possible, all the following Ac3's (from part 2 and 3) are not able to be imported. The handicap is, that if you have 2 or 3 films, you must activate a seperatly track for each film (in DVDStPro).
I tried to acess an AC3-in-one-piece to the first track, but at the changeover to track 2 the tone goes on but no pictures.

Your method is realy fast and I hope there is a workaround to get files for DVDStPro

good luck for 2003

[zilber]

Here is the solution to your ac3 problem. I had the same thing happen to me. http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=128387