Pinnacle 7 (v. 7.15) v. Tmpgenc rendering

[Hojobey]

I have been using Pinnacle 7 and I have created several DVD's with it. I have heard great things about Tmpgenc but I have not tried it yet. The negative to using it is that it creates an extra step in the process - i.e., you have to render the AVI to another AVI in the make movie section after it has been edited. Now, I simply render it to an MPEG from the AVI project. My question is: Is it worth it, in terms of noticeable quality difference, between using Pinnacle's own rendering and Tmpgenc. Thank you.

[rkr1958]

I own Pinnacle 7 and TMPGEnc Plus. My personal opinion is that MPEG-2 (DVD-Quality) encoding in TMPGEnc Plus is superior to Pinnacle 7. Also, MPEG-2 (SVCD-Quality) and MPEG-1 (VCD and XVCD-Quality) are far superior to Pinnacle 7. I use Pinnacle 7 for capturing and for editing. I usually save my edited movies in Pinnacle 7 to AVI in segments of 5 to 10-minutes which I then encode in TMPGEnc Plus. These segments make nice breakpoints for Chapters. In my opinion these extra steps are worth it in both time and money (TMPGEnc Plus runs around $48) for the additional quality and capability that I get.

[q1aqza]

The Pinnacle 7 encoder produces the worst quality I have ever experienced - I don't know if has been imprioved in 7.15. I used to find it much more worthwhile to take the extra step and render to AVI and then use TMPG.

I can't see any benefit for rendering into smaller clips as suggested by rkr1958 unless you have FAT32 file system, then you would be forced to limit the size.

[Hojobey]

rkr1958 & q1aqza:
Thanks for your helpful responses. I noticed that Tmpgenc has a dvd template. Do you do this or do you make modifications to increase the quality in the Tmpgenc program. Thanks. ( I am going to get the program!)

[q1aqza]

I use the DVD Template and then unlock it with the unlock.mcf file found in the other folder (can't remember the name as I am at work) - I actually moved it into the same folder as the templates. I then adjust things to my personal preferences.

I usually use the CQ option for my home DV footage. There are lots of posts on this site where people describe their own optimal settings, so it's best to do your own tests. I usually create a one minute DV clip and then encode it with various settings and then put all the resulting mpegs into one DVD-RW and then use the prev / next buttons on my remote so I can make quick comparisons between all the files.

Another option to consider is instead of buying TMPG you could for similar cost buy Ulead VideoStudio 6 which has Ulead's MPEG.Now built in encoder which is actually based on the excellent Mainconcept encoder. This will allow you to render to good quality mpeg2 straight from the timeline without the intermediate step of creating another DV AVI. There is a free trial available from the Ulead website.

[rkr1958]

rkr1958 & q1aqza:
I noticed that Tmpgenc has a dvd template. Do you do this or do you make modifications to increase the quality in the Tmpgenc program.

For making DVD-quality movies I stick to the template. I've been very happy with the home movies of my wife and son that I've created. I got a Sony DRU-500a DVD+/-RW writer two weeks ago and I use MyDVD, which came bundled with the writer, to author and burn to DVD-R. These movies play very well in my Toshiba DVD player.

I can't see any benefit for rendering into smaller clips as suggested by rkr1958 unless you have FAT32 file system, then you would be forced to limit the size.

For me, rendering to smaller clips makes it more manageable to getting from raw DV footage to my final rendered home movie. Also, when I pull these clips into MyDVD they "automatically" become chapters. Also, before I had a DVD writer I use to create XVCDs and, again, multiple clips broke up nicely in chapters when authoring using VCD-easy. I also backup all my projects to DVD. A 10-minute clip saved in AVI from Pinnacle (before rendering) is over 2-GB so you can save 2 10-minute clips or 4 5-minute clips per DVD-R.

[Luis Neves]

RKR, be aware that myDVD is a very nice program but with one problem: it does not compress audio and this way it limits considerably the size of film you can put on one disk. You can easily put an extra hour of film (same quality) if you produce the mpg-2 files with an encoder like TMPGEnc and burn with something like Nero or RecordNow.

[Feuerwehr]

I also have both S7.15, and TMPGEnc, and would have to agree that TMPGEnc does a better job of encoding. However, if your goal is to make a DVD I will have to admit at the higher bitrates (7000-8000kb/s) you will be hard pressed to tell a difference. I have a 61" Sony, and most of the time I cannot tell any difference at all. With VCD's, SCVD's, and low bitrate DVD-R's the difference is obvious. The S7.15 mpeg2 encoder is much much better than the original S7 encoder.

[CubDukat]

I have used both Studio 7.15.1c (the last current version of Studio 7) and the MPEG-2 encoding on the free version of the latest TMPGEnc, and I'll say this with complete conviction:

TMPGEnc kicks Pinnacle's ass, hands down. But, then again, that's not a very hard task.

BTW, I use a DC10plus as my capture card, and I have never had to transcode to another format in order to get TMPGEnc to accept the AVI files. bbMPEG and everyone else, however, that's a different story...

That factor alone should be plenty reason enough for you to dump S7 entirely, and avoid Studio 8, as it uses the same encoding engine. And that's not even taking into account Pinnacle's shitty customer service record (think "We're OK, you're fucked up," and you have their general attitude towards their customers), buggy software and serious audio sync problems that they refuse to acknowledge are their doing. Oh, and did I mention that it's also non-XP certified? The fact that it works on XP is more of a dumb-luck miracle than a conscious effort for compliance on Pinnacle's part. In fact, only the Studio DV (the card, not the entire package) is certified to be compatible by Microsoft.

About the only redeeming facet of Studio is that it allows you to do split edits and cut things on the beat, which is great for music videos. Unfortunately, the sync problems are so bad that it's rendered moot.

In short, if you haven't already dumped S7, do so immedately. There are better choices than a program from a company that has such a bad attitude.

All I can say is that all of these reviewers giving Pinnacle Studio all these accolades are totally snowed, 'cause it's a serious POS.

[Bstansbury]

__Q1aqza__ Your post above mentions the MPEG encoder used in Ulead VideoStudio 6.0. I have that version and while it seems to be fine, my DVD encoding of still images does not impress anyone. One of (many)problems in VS 6.0 is that there is no ability to set anything about the MPEG encoding. This is the same for VCD', SVCD's, or DVD's. They are all fixed, no changes. How do you know what engine they use for encoding? What bit rate do they use. Is it VBR or CBR. Do they use 1 pass or 2 pass? Where is a site that can provide this information. I don't see any of it at the Ulead site. By the way, Ulead just came out with a new "free" plugin "Server" that allows you to use any of 9 other encoder software engines along with VS 6.0. They must be doing this because of complaints or request from there customers.

Anyone else have additional information. I know there is comparison information on Doom9, but I don't think they have included anything about Ulead software.

[rkr1958]

RKR, be aware that myDVD is a very nice program but with one problem: it does not compress audio and this way it limits considerably the size of film you can put on one disk. You can easily put an extra hour of film (same quality) if you produce the mpg-2 files with an encoder like TMPGEnc and burn with something like Nero or RecordNow.

What I'm doing is encoding the MPEG-2 Files using TMPGEnc and authoring and burning using MyDVD. I shouldn't have the audio compression problem you refer to, should I?

[donpedro]

It looks like I will have to test it. I use Pinnacle's Studio 8 and I like what I see as result. Let's see if it can look better with TMPGEnc.

[caulnguyen]

To change the parameters in VS6, do the following. Click on "settting and command" (where you see the hammer and the wrench). Click "Make movie Manager". Select the format you want, then click edit. From there you can change the variable (bitrate ...).

Cau


One of (many)problems in VS 6.0 is that there is no ability to set anything about the MPEG encoding. This is the same for VCD', SVCD's, or DVD's. They are all fixed, no changes. How do you know what engine they use for encoding? What bit rate do they use. Is it VBR or CBR. Do they use 1 pass or 2 pass? Where is a site that can provide this information. I don't see any of it at the Ulead site. By the way, Ulead just came out with a new "free" plugin "Server" that allows you to use any of 9 other encoder software engines along with VS 6.0. They must be doing this because of complaints or request from there customers.

Anyone else have additional information. I know there is comparison information on Doom9, but I don't think they have included anything about Ulead software.[/quote]

[Bstansbury]

"caulnguyen"

Thanks very much for the information. I now see that both the Templates manager and the Movie manager have the ability to change all the key elements of the process. I guess there is just soo much new to learn about this program, I will need lots of time with it.

I have been reading other post that imply that the MPEG encoder used in VideoStudio is not that good. It is very critical to those of us who want to use these video tools to create good results. It takes a lot of time to edit and create a movie using video and digital stills, plus titles, chapters, etc., and when you select DVD output you want it to be good. What I ended up with looked more like standard grade VHS. All my source was high quality digital images and those should look like. Each digital image was over 1.3 MB. I'll try a small video and stills again and see what the difference looks like using another MPG encoder.

[Luis Neves]

RKR, yes, you have! MyDVD uncompresses the audio that comes from TMPGEnc. Its easy to see: check the size of the video+audio file(s) produced with TMPGEnc and then insert in MyDVD (you will see a message of audio transcoding wich takes some time to proceed); see in the left lower panel the amount of disk remaining in MyDVD and compare with the size of your original file(s). Of course this is not a big problem if you can live with less film in one DVD, but if you are keen to put as much as possible...

[kitty]

I tried myDVD with my TMPGenc encoded former divx and hated the result - my 4GB file bloated to 5+gb and I couldn't burn it. I reencoded using VBR to 3.2GB and used Ulead DVD MovieFactory and the file stayed at 3+GB.

When I was using S7 prior to 7.15 I would render to high quality AVI and transcode with TMPGenc as the quality was much better. Did they change the encoder in 7.15? I won't touch 8.xx until I hear it is stable.

[p_l]

The concensus seems to be that 7.15 improves DVD MPEG2 over 7 quite a bit, SVCD MPEG2 somewhat, and VCD MPEG1 remains poor. Since I'm still doing VCDs and SVCDs, I'm sticking with TMPGEnc. And I totally agree about holding off on Studio 8 until there's a concensus it's more stable. Besides, 7.15 uses 8's encoding. Oh, and everyone over on their boards is familiar with the unwritten FAQ: ignore Mike_T. :P

[donpedro]

When I was using S7 prior to 7.15 I would render to high quality AVI and transcode with TMPGenc as the quality was much better. Did they change the encoder in 7.15? I won't touch 8.xx until I hear it is stable.

I believe they did. As far as I know Studio 8 and latest 7 uses same encoder. I installed dual boot (WinXP) just for Studio 8 and it is working fine for me. But I will have to try create AVI's from Studio, encode them with TMPGEnc and author it with... I don't know with what yet. Maybe SrpuceUP. After that I will compare my results. This might take some time so don't expect results soon. It took me 2 full days to edit and finish my 77min project (source had 4 hours). It's always hard to get rid of scenes in home video .

[kitty]

This might take some time so don't expect results soon. It took me 2 full days to edit and finish my 77min project (source had 4 hours). It's always hard to get rid of scenes in home video .

I know firsthand!

[rkr1958]

RKR, yes, you have! MyDVD uncompresses the audio that comes from TMPGEnc. ...

I tried myDVD with my TMPGenc encoded former divx and hated the result - my 4GB file bloated to 5+gb and I couldn't burn it.

O.K., O.K., I give ... I just purchased Ulead DVD Movie Factory for $13.95 ($22 Total w/Shipping & Ins.) off of ebay. Since the "Tools" Section to the left has this listed as one of the DVD Authoring Tools, and not MyDVD, I took this as a VCDEasy Site recommendation for Ulead DVD Movie Factory over MyDVD. Was I wrong? What are your opinions of this package?