Possible to create a multilanuage VCD???

[zedriq]

Hey there,
i wanna know if its possible to create a multilanguage VCD? I know that this works with SVCD, but i don´t know if also with VCD. If this is possible, please tell me a link where i can find detailed instructions or a HowTo.

Thanks first...

Greets, zedriq

[pire]

hey, i can only think of one way of doing that: Having the left channel as one language and the right channel as the other and then moving the balance....jeje don't think there is any other way but...i might b wrong...

[zedriq]

Well then...i think i have to take the svcd option...

Does anyone know how to prepare a multilanguage vcd mpeg stream?

I can´t find it on www.vcdhelp.com

Maybe i am too blind to see...or better said: The one who can read has á real advantage...

[Baldrick]

Here you can read how to make multilanguage vcd (different audio in left and right channels, you should be able to select channel with your dvd player if it supports vcd)
http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/userguides/78196.php



To make a svcd with two audio tracks multiplex the other audio track with tmpgenc or bbmpeg.
www.vcdhelp.com/bbmpegedit
www.vcdhelp.com/faq#multiplex

[susie]

If it is possible to create a VCD with two different audios then is it possible to eliminate a audio from a VCD that has 2 audios when you want to make a backup copy of it ? And how ?

[vitualis]

If it is possible to create a VCD with two different audios then is it possible to eliminate a audio from a VCD that has 2 audios when you want to make a backup copy of it ? And how ?

Yes.

You will need to demux your audio and decompress it to WAV. Use an audio editing program like Cool Edit to just extract the L or R channel.

Recompress to the appropriate spec MP2 with the new audio.

Remux.

It has been written before in detail on the forums so do a search. You should be able to find it.

Regards.

[Knut_Norw]

There is another way to get two audios:

I you create half a disk of each audio in stereo, place each as an individual MPG file and in NERO choose to make a menu choosing what language you want. Make sure to set the pause after the first MPG to infinite, or else the disc wil continue to the next language.

This is of course not exactly bilingual, but it is a solution if it's a short film. I have sucsessfully done this with short home-made films with constant subtitles, and it should be the same with audio.

[susie]

vitualis,

I tried Cool Edit Pro 2.0 but I was not able to extract L or R channel audio so I used Goldwave instead. After I extracted the wanted audio file I encoded the .wav file with TMPG and after that I Mux the video(.m1v) and the audio file (.mpg which I rename to .mp2) with TMPG "simple multiplex" but I get an error message after mux them together.

Error is as follow :

38781s Packets cause buffer underflow.
The MPEG file might cause error when it player.

However if I use TMPG's "Multiplex" and not "simple multiplex" I get no error message after the MUXing is done but the file size becomes so big.


help please.


Thanks

[susie]

Knut_Norw,

Sorry I got you confused.

I wanted to get rid of 1 audio so that I have only 1 audio after I backup my movie.

[vitualis]

susie, can you provide exact details of what you did (e.g., what settings)...

Regards.

[DJRumpy]

Susie, if you want to get rid of one, then this should be much easier. Using TMPGenc, select FILE | MPEG TOOLS. Go to the DEMULTIPLEX tab (note: NOT the Simple Demultiplex).

Your video, and two audio streams should be listed here. Double click on the Video stream. You will be prompted to save the M1V file. After that completes, double click on the Audio stream you wish to keep. You will be prompted to save the MP2 (or MPA if your audio is not MP2). Next, go to the Multiplex tab. When add both the audio, and video files here (it may do it automatically, if you left their filenames at the default, and they are in the same directory). Give your new MPEG a different filename.

The tools will then multiplex only the Video, and Audio you extracted to a new MPEG.

[vitualis]

@ DJRumpy: actually, that won't work as a stereo mpeg stream (even if it is encoded as dual-channel I think) only shows up as ONE mpeg stream. You cannot demultiplex the individual channels.

Regards.

[DJRumpy]

If it is possible to create a VCD with two different audios then is it possible to eliminate a audio from a VCD that has 2 audios when you want to make a backup copy of it ? And how ?

I assumed she was working with two audio streams, not with simple audio channels. If this is the case, then ignore my post. Any decent audio editor will let you save only one channel.

Susue, the error you recieved in TMPGenc

38781s Packets cause buffer underflow.
The MPEG file might cause error when it player.

can usually be ignored. I've yet to experience a problem with it. I often receive these errors using TMPGenc's Multiplex tool.

[susie]

vitualis,

I used all default setting on TMPG and Goldwave

1) Demux the .DAT file from the VCD.
2) Drag the audio file with 2 audio channels into Goldwave
3) Select L (or R) channel only
4) Select "Copy to" and save it as a WAV file
5) Use TMPGenc to encode just the WAV file into mp2 file using the VCD template but doing just the audio file.
6) Mux the original video file and the mp2 audio file back together.

On step 5) I just encoded the .wav file as if I am encoding a mpg file to VCD but in this cause I just have the audio to encode and not video.
The output file had a .mpg extension so I renamed it to .mp2

On step 6) I used TMPG's "simple multiplex" to joing the video clip and audio into one piece but this the step where I get the error msg.

I repeated step 6) but this time I used TMPG's "Multiplex" and got no error but a big file size.

[susie]

I will give it a try.

Susie, if you want to get rid of one, then this should be much easier. Using TMPGenc, select FILE | MPEG TOOLS. Go to the DEMULTIPLEX tab (note: NOT the Simple Demultiplex).

Your video, and two audio streams should be listed here. Double click on the Video stream. You will be prompted to save the M1V file. After that completes, double click on the Audio stream you wish to keep. You will be prompted to save the MP2 (or MPA if your audio is not MP2). Next, go to the Multiplex tab. When add both the audio, and video files here (it may do it automatically, if you left their filenames at the default, and they are in the same directory). Give your new MPEG a different filename.

The tools will then multiplex only the Video, and Audio you extracted to a new MPEG.

[DJRumpy]

The error seems to hold no bearing on compatability. I've received it numerous times, without any playback problems.

Can you dupicate step 6 again, using Simple Multiplex, and get the same results?

[susie]

I tried the method of using "deMultiplex" instead of "simple multiplex" and all I see is :

Video_stream 0x00 MPEG-1 Video 352x240......
Audio_stream 0x00 MPEG-1 Audio layer2.......

I don't see 2 audios listed.

Oh I burned the MPG even though I told you guys that I received error message but it seems to play ok. Maybe I should watch the whole video clip then I can say for sure that there is no problem.

Yes when I repeat step 6) I get exactly the same error message.

The error seems to hold no bearing on compatability. I've received it numerous times, without any playback problems.

Can you dupicate step 6 again, using Simple Multiplex, and get the same results?

[DJRumpy]

I've wondered about this message. I found an interesting link with a pretty complex description that reads like lawyer spew .

From what this description looks like (I'm way out on a limb here), the buffer appears to be used much like the buffer on a CD-Burner. As the MPEG stream is fed through the decoder, this buffer fills, and feeds out the decoded stream at a minimal output level, preventing the decoder from dropping to no output. As the stream decode becomes more complex, or simple, the buffer empties, or fills up respectively. The DCT circuit appears to handle this by decreasing the precision of the decode or encode to fill the buffer again. If the stream became too complex to quickly, and the DCT ciruit could not compensate, AND the buffer emptied as a result, then the decoder would have no output. I'm guessing this doesn't happen often, or most players handle this without issue?

Here is the 'lite' reading I referenced above:

The DCT coefficient quantisation, run-length, and VLC coding processes produce a varying bitrate which depends upon the complexity of the picture information and the amount and type of motion in the picture. To produce the constant bitrate needed for transmission over a fixed bitrate system, a buffer is needed to smooth out the variations in bitrate. For preventing overflow or underflow of this buffer, its occupancy is monitored and feedback applied to coding processes to control the input to the buffer. The DCT quantisation process is often used to provide direct control of the buffers input. As the buffer becomes full, the quantiser is made coarser to reduce the number of bits used to code each DCT coefficient; and as the buffer empties, the DCT quantisation is made finer. Other means of controlling the buffer occupancy may be used as well as, or instead of, control of the DCT coefficient quantisation.

MPEG-2 defines the maximum decoder (and hence coder) buffer size, although the coder may choose to use only part of this. The delay through the coder and decoder buffer is equal to the buffer size divided by the channel bit rate. For example, an MPEG-2 coder operating at 6 Mbit/s with a buffer size of 1.8 Mbits would have a total delay through the coder and decoder buffers of around 300 ms. Reducing the buffer size will reduce the delay, but may affect picture quality if the buffer becomes too small to accommodate the variation in bit rate from the coder VLC.

[DJRumpy]

Found another tidbit, which can supposedly resolve the error (untested by me..so no flames please )

If you get an error message about "packet underflows" when the process is finished, this means the muxrate was off in a few spots and the movie might jerk slightly at those points, once for each underflow. If the movie jerking a few times is no big deal, just forget about it. If you want the movie to be as perfect as possible, re-load the remuxed part into MPEG Tools, Merge & Cut, and re-save it, making sure to select "MPEG-2 Super VideoCD (VBR)" as the type. Don't hit the Edit button, just do a load-and-save. That'll fix the underflows by "re-packetizing" the video by adding the proper MPEG-2 headers for each video packet. Then you're ready for burning.
If you're muxing three tracks, use the "Multiplex" tab, instead, and load the files one-by-one.

[susie]

select "MPEG-2 SuperVCD" ? But the movie is a VCD.
Wondering if it would make any difference if I use a different program to DeMux and Mux ? (Womble MPG2VCR)

I feel so bad for wasting so much of your time. I think to make life easier I should just burn the movie the way it is with 2 audio. When watching the movie all I have to do is unplug one audio cable.

If you want the movie to be as perfect as possible, re-load the remuxed part into MPEG Tools, Merge & Cut, and re-save it, making sure to select "MPEG-2 Super VideoCD (VBR)" as the type. Don't hit the Edit button, just do a load-and-save. That'll fix the underflows by "re-packetizing" the video by adding the proper MPEG-2 headers for each video packet. Then you're ready for burning.
If you're muxing three tracks, use the "Multiplex" tab, instead, and load the files one-by-one.

[DJRumpy]

Sorry about that. The info was SVCD specific, but it should still apply. Just select "MPEG-1 System (VBR)" in your case. I've tested this, and TMPGenc no longer reports the error. Unfortunately, I've never seen a symptom of this error in the first place

[susie]

DJRumpy,
I just finish watching Disc 1 of the VCD which I said had buffer underrun error and nothing was wrong at all. Maybe like you said that TMPG complains alot.

I am going to burn Disc 2 on a CDRW as well and hope like disc 1 there would be no error.

If there is problem then I will use your method of SVCD.

[vitualis]

I think that I understand what might be wrong...

You mentioned that you loaded the VCD template and the audio encoded had an .mpg extension.

If you just load the VCD template, TMPGEnc is going to create a VCD stream -- not just the audio. I'm not sure what it does, but it might create a null video stream as well.

This could explain why you are getting a "big file" when you mux your "audio" and original video together.

With TMPGEnc, don't load a template (File --> New Project). Then just load your audio (the setting should be ES -- Audio only). Click on settings and change the bitrate to 224 kbit/s.

Encode.

That should work!

Best of luck.

Regards.

[susie]

Vitualis,
I just encoded the extracted audio file with TMPG (new project) with only audio (ES) and after that I Multiplexed the audio(mp2) & video (m1v) I still get the exact same buffer underrun error.

[susie]

When I Multiplex and choose "MPEG-1 System (VBR)" I still get the same buffer underrun error but when I re-multiplex and this time choose "MPEG-2 SuperVideoCD (VBR)" I get no error but TMPG rewrites the svcd header.

I get NO ERROR only if I choose "MPEG-1 Video-CD".

Sorry about that. The info was SVCD specific, but it should still apply. Just select "MPEG-1 System (VBR)" in your case. I've tested this, and TMPGenc no longer reports the error. Unfortunately, I've never seen a symptom of this error in the first place

[DJRumpy]

You don't do this on the MULTIPLEX tabs. Use the EDIT/CUT tab. Your not actually going to edit or cut anything. Just ADD the MPEG that generated the error on that tab. Select the proper type ( MPEG-1 System (VBR) in your case), type in your new OUTPUT file name, and click Run.

[susie]

DJRumpy,
ok