Player - ...seaking recommendation for TV-OUT cards.

[vhelp]

Hello all.

As some of you know, I've ben dabling in the divX world. I've ben trying
to come up with the right ingrediant for TV-OUT quality. But, so far, I have
not figure it out as of yet. So..

What I'm looking for, is a recommended divX software player, that plays
good quality. I've played with BSPlayer, and although it's good quality,
it's TV-OUT quality tells another story. At best, it's good for PC viewing.
I notice that color quality and blocks are poor w/ this player, though it's
still a good layer.

I find, that for the ultimate quality, VDUB is the best!! But, it's not an actual
player, is it. So, what I'm looking for, is a good player wiith VDUB
quality. TV-OUT on VDUB is excellent. Colors are very we reproduced.

Anyone know of or can point out some good divX players for TV-OUT
viewing ??

Thanks for any responses.
-vhelp

[hoola_loop]

not sure if it will work but have you tried zoomplayer.
has tons of options, and i mean tons.

[vhelp]

hoola,
I'm pooped at the moment. I really am. I'm getting ready for bed shortly.
So, maybe tommorow, I'll continue my search.

The one thing I don't want, is any apps that has Ad-Ware nonsense.

Thanks so far though.
-vhelp

[Prospero424]

Yeah, I agree with Hoola Hoop. I've tried almost every single player out there, including PowerDVD, WinDVD, etc. The only players that work consistently well with my radeon 8500's TV-out are the ATi File Player and Zoom Player. It will play almost ANY type of file and, at least for me, looks great on the TV. I would suggest getting the latest release, which is Zoom Player 3 Beta 2. The interface has been completely redesigned and has been cleaned up alot. It's the only player I use more than the ATi software, especially since the playlist editor rocks and it even plays DVDs.

Good Luck,

Prospero

[Fozzee]

All my video software look good on my TV

PowerDVD
Cinematograph
DivX Player
etc etc

You sure its not your TV-Out card????

Which one is it??

I recently changed from a Geforce2 to a Geforce4 and the difference in Tv-Out is amazing.


Fozzee

[jeffyboy]

Zoomplayer is a winner on the software side.

For the Hardware side, the choices are limited. I'm traditionally an ATI believer for Capturing TV, but For TV-Out needs, I've been quite pleased with the Matrox 550 card. It's a Truely Dual Head -- 3rd Generation Dual Screen card. I believe ATI is still stuck on 1st Generation.

The main issue is ATI's lack of independant refresh rates. So when you activate TV-OUT, Your monitors Refresh rate is lowered & screws up your screen and icons.

Matrox also offers DVDMAX. Lets see, how I can explain this.... Any graphics using overlayed video appearing on your monitor, will be shown full screen at the video's file's full resolution, regardless of the size it's being displayed on your monitor. Of course this is easily changed in the advanced features of the Display settings.

Another benefit is that the Matrox does not rely on the Graphics Card for non-DVD decoding. This task is put on the CPU. This eliminates most of the problems with incompatible file types, outdated codec versions & non standard video sizing, that can cripple other TV-Out cards like the Realmagic XCard.

Realone player displayes video as Overlay (graphics acceleration should be set at highest level in the player's preferences.) ........ so that would mean you could finally.....Yep...and quite well.

jeff

[crahak]

Could be your card too. PowerDVD looks ok, also use radlight from times to times and it plays good (with my card at least). Radlight is really great at a few things, it plays audio properly all the time; dual audio streams, AC3, you name it, it plays it, and there's a menu that lets you switch easily when you right click. It also lets you change the aspect ratio (for those movies where we didn't want to waste bitrate on black bars and that powerdvd distorts so nicely...) Anyways, lots of em out there... Good luck

[vhelp]

Good morning peoples.

..and thank you for responding to my post here and then some
It's nice when your post is answered though, unlike other posts I've
made, and still no answere

Well, this IS my thread, so I'll post as long a thread as I want, he, he...

Anyways, I'm still using BSPlayer, as I think it's pretty good for my
use at the moment (playing various clips (divX for tests) and otherwise
mpeg clips (for tests as well))

The one thing I don't appreciate about BSP, is its sound. I find that
it muffles or lowers the sound quality. However, if I bring my divX
samples into vdub, the sound is perfect, afaik/hear.

I've tried (and still have instaled) zoomPlayer (ZP). But, I found that
BSP played video w/ less blocks or mostly artifacts. But, ZP does have
that nice "screen ratio" feature though, but I didn't care much for it
as I thought I would. I think that the key to a good quality divX, is
utuilizing the right resolution - something I've ben toying around with
for the past month now.

Well, my Website is back up and I'm constantly updating it, changing
things around (just so picky about where this goes or that goes, ..should I
say thing, or that, etc)

Anyways, I'm sure that most of you's outtheir have DSL or Cable, as you
guys (and then some) talk a lot about or relate to, divX stuff. Mind
you, I'm assuming you all have this. Unfortunately, at the moment, I
don't - stuck w/ my 56k till things are worked out there w/ DSL or Cable.
And, my Satalite (DirecTV) constanly teas me w/ "oh, we have DLS in your
area" STILL !! And, when I go and consult, they say "sorry old chap..,
service is not in your area..,he, he.." "..thank you for inquireing though"
Pisses me off. Anyways...

It would be appropriate of me to be able to D/L some divX clips that I
can test against mine and see how they or mine compare. But, I don't
use those addware D/L'ers - full of adware, and ruins my antisipation.

Oh, speaking of adware, that "radlite" player, I heard and read that it
is riddled w/ adware and spyware stuff. I wanted to give it a try, but
was informed of this nonsense. I'm surprised that some of you's are
actually using something w/ adware poping up like that though. Oh well.

I'll keep looking for that right player though. At the moment, nothing
seems to beat VDUB as a player, for divX, quality'wise. Weather I play
on my PC, or on my 13" TV, the quality IS better than any of the players
I've tried so far, though I'll continue to use BSP for the time being.

Also wanted to get this out (its my thread, gosh) anyways, that I did
a sample divX of a scene in the movie The Fifth Element and I
really liked how there were NO blocks, and even when played through my
TV-OUT too. I then took that same clip (as if I had D/L'ed from the
net - work with me here) and re-encoded it to a VCD. And, yes, you can
get decent quality from an re-encode, but ONLY IF the divX is encoded
very well. Only. So, I was surprised to actually see this. But, at
the moment, I've YET to see an actually GOOD divX, or as good as the
one thta I did in this test here. All those divX'es I've ever D/L'ed
WERE crap I still beleave in doing YOUR OWN WORK though.

I am looking into seeing if I can "create" my own player, using Delphi.
And I hope that I can match he video quality that is in vdub. If I can,
I'll be in Heaven - course, I'll post it at my Website (if it ever happens)
But, right now, it's just talk/hype/dream

Well, tank you all again, and please keep'em coming.
-vhelp

[crahak]

Hmmm. it is very easy to kill that spyware that comes with radlight by hand, it takes less than 2 minutes. Terminate the process, remove reg keys and files. Anyways, I understand why some people don't want to use it.

As far as "decent quality" goes, it's already questionnable as far as the divx you can download. You can make rips that look MUCH better yourself... So a VCD encode from those... It will be watchable at best.

[vhelp]

crahak,
>> You can make rips that look MUCH better yourself... So a VCD encode
>> from those... It will be watchable at best.
Yes, I agree w/ you here. ...will be watchable at best.

I was just testing this out for myself, to see why peoples go through it all
for nothing. And, the lower the resolution, the worse'r it is. I'm sure that
there is a "rule of thumb" when creating a divX, but most people's out
their that DO create them, don't take the "ROT" into consideration when
divX'ing. Anyways...

I so much more going on right here, and so little time with them all.
I do want to have a look at idea I had earlier, about creating my own
player. I did something (as an experiment) using BSP and what I did was
create a fullscreen BLACK window, and then placed BPS on it and played
a widescreen divX clip I did (ST-E) and without actually telling BSP to
fullscreen the clip (though it would have added the black bars) and I saw
that I got MUCH BETTER video quality, then if I had to STRETCH the clip.
So, this sparked my imagination some more, but now I don't want to
or need touse BSP or any other player, IF I can cme up w/ my own.

If I CAN come up with my own home-made player, then that will of course
answer my thread, for seaking the best player for TV-OUT cards, etc.

Well, I've got to look into this more
-vhelp

[hoola_loop]

humm your divx files should look very good. are you encoding yourself? when i view my files on my tv with my tview scan converter they look like dvd * no lie * i cap from tv at 640 x 480 or rip from dvd then use resize filter in vdub and bump it down to 512 x384 use quality based pass at 100% with b frames - psych enhancment <- setting depends onmovie and half frames and get awsome divX files. when capping from tv i may use the picfix filter. i do hope you find your golden player though. keep us posted on which one works out best for ya. if you make a player of your own pass it to me ill test if for ya. 8) peace

i too would like to find a player that does it all perfectly. but i dont mind switching from windvd - zoom or bsplayer. my 3 babies.

[vhelp]

hoola,

thanks for your response. I'm using v5.0.2 (but not the PRO)
I'll assume you are suing the same, but w/ the PRO indeed and you also
can go higher in bitrate too ??

>> use [b]quality based pass at 100% with b frames -
I'll try two test encode w/ and w/out this.

>> psych enhancment
Ok, can't say I've used this - though it was nothing. Guess I'll give this a
go too.

For fullscreen materials, so far, I've ben using 512x384 cause that's half
the screne (when doubled to 1024x768, which is my screen res)
I found that this is very good quality.

I have a sample still at my thread on this res. below.
-vhelp
VHELP's Sample...

[jaiman516]

i own a wintv-go tv tuner card and i was woondering how come i cant play stuff on my tv with it i have done everything and man is it pissing me off i really want to play some movies on my tv but i cant becuase it just wont play i have used every single program imangible and ihave bought almost $30 worth of wires becuase my tv is so ffar away so can somone help me!!!!!!!!!!!

[hoola_loop]

im not familiar with the wintv go. does it support tv out? if it does i would go to the products main website for info and recommendations on how to set it up. the manual usually states how to do these things though i could be very wrong.

[jaiman516]

i have been to thier website it does contain a manual actually it does contain much of anything the only thing it has is drivers i tried contacting thier service rep but u have to wait for like 2hours on the phone then they hang up and theyn ever reply to my emails either

[hoola_loop]

@vhelp

i use the $30 pro version with no ads and the only diff i can really see in the non pro is that in pro you get the mpeg4 tools in the codec ungreyed and usable b frames - gmc - q pixels which can give near 24% more compression but will make some systems bog down when decoding them theh only one i use is biderectional encoding = bframes. and maybe gmc in certain movies. the ability to crop and resize within the codec available too but i dont like the way it acts when i turn these features on so i dont use them i just turn on vdubs interal resize and be dont with it. but for a fact b-frames and gmc can reduce filesize and allow more bits to be injected. and if you used xcd tools and burn the divx in mode2 you can put and extra 100mb of data on a 700mb cdr and that can improve a divx movie dramaticly. but you have to have the riff cd/xa filters installed to decode them so do a tiny test clip before you do a whole movie to see ifyour cdrom can read them. also need the mode2 cd maker and the mode2 cd maker gui get them here. http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/xcd.htm read the help files carefully because from what i understand it used no error correction therefor a tiny scratch could render the disk useless. peace

[crahak]

I use b frames, but no GMC at it gave me problems several times and didn't really seem to help much when it worked anyways. I don't try methods to fix 800meg on a CD, I just split it on more CD's As far as quality goes, it's different from mpeg2. Bitrate alone means almsot nothing, higer resolutions will need higher bitrates, so I just stick to bits/(pixel*frame) instead (also< keeping or removing the black borders do change resolution. It helps a lot, as long as your player supports choosing the aspect ratio) Anyways, around .35 bits/(pixel*frame) looks good for me, but sometimes it gets big, especially if you want to keep the AC3 5.1. My solution to this is using both my CDRW and DVD to play discs on a play list (either changing CD's midways thru the movie) or copying 2 to the HD (it doesn't take long with today's drives) while I make popcorn and get beer Anyways good luck

[hoola_loop]

yep that is what i do. i drag a few movies turn on tv. start up playlist and get drunk not worrying about having to get up and change disk. really nice on a lazy day to laod like 8 or so movies up and not move from the sofa. eheh except for the ocasional pee break. :P no pauses skips execpt durring playlist change.

[hardwork12]

Great thread. maybe there is still hope for me. I finally am able to get great quality Divx DVD back-ups and play very nicely on the PC. I gave my old leadtek geforce 2 GTS video out a try and absolutely horrible and useless.

I am now in the market for a PC card with Video out that can give very good TV viewing capability of my Divx cd's. Seems like I need a better player and will try a few but I definitely need a new card. seems like many of you have acceptagle results. What would you recommend for a PC card with video out? A plus would be one that has decent PVR capability as well rather not get a TIVO

My goal is to get at least s-vhs quality playback. Maybe not possible but I don't want worse than using my DVD player running a CVD. I really don't care about Games for this system. The following is what I pulled out of this thread so far:

Some ideas I picked up from above. Based on my goal will any of these do the trick.

From: Prospero424

The only players that work consistently well with my radeon 8500's TV-out are the ATi File Player and Zoom Player.

Is this a possibility?

From:Fozzee

I recently changed from a Geforce2 to a Geforce4 and the difference in Tv-Out is amazing.

Now I know not to waste my time with my current geforce 2!!! Would really like to know which geforce 4 card worked well for you.

From:jeffyboy

I've been quite pleased with the Matrox 550 card. It's a Truely Dual Head -- 3rd Generation Dual Screen card.

How good a choice is this one TVout and as a PVR ?

Any recommendations? Thanks

[hoola_loop]

i have to say when i watch a non animated divx movie on my 27"tv that the res i use is no less than 448 x 336 with bitrates around 1300 most of my stuff now are 512 x 384 res. i pop a movie i did a few months ago the res was 320x240 to watch on 15" monitor bitrate at around 850 and the output to tv was to say the least horrible. i just did a capture of shadowskill*animated* at res of 640 x 240 bitrates at 1150 and output to tv is awsome. if i cap some nicktoons for the kiddies i cap at 352 x 240 encode with bitrates around 700 and they look very nice on tv and excellent on pc.

§§§ HOOLA §§§

[thxkid]

I have seen alot of TV-Out cards and the TV out on Video cards they are all junk, go with realmagic X-card for far superior quality and it will handle, Divx, MPEG1, MPEG2, VOB, VCD 1.0 and 2.0, SVCD they are $99, well worth the price and your DVD's will look like great also.
Sigmadesign who makes the chip has the new one that will play..

DVR, PVR, DVD, Divx, WMA, MPEG1, MPEG2, VCD, SVCD

I would never trade my Hollywood plus DVD Full motion card for anything, let alone a lesser quality video card with TV-OUT.
By the way no TV-OUT card can do Progressive Scan like my Decoder can.

[hoola_loop]

the xcard looks nice but from what i read it does not support qpel or GMC in 5.x or 3.11 at all.support dor 3.11 doesnt bother me but i do use global motion compensation in some encodings. i am sure there will be around this though in the futiure if now already.
i myself am happy with my crappy tview products. i have a tview micro and a tview gold they both work very well except on very low res/bitrate divx files. not to mention games are tons bigger. i got to admite games take a bit of a hit in quality when output to tv but im not a big gamer anyway.

final note i will FOR SURE get an xcard when they support a few minor little details.

ps. are you able to play a divx file that has been encoded with gmc? thanks in advance.

[hardwork12]

realmagic X-card
tview micro

Can't quite figure out if these are used in addition to a standard video card or I still need one.

I am building a computer for the sole reason of using it for two things (no need for game playing capability.)

1)Playing DVD's, DIXV 4.12 and higher that I make, CVD, VCD, SVCD (will it run CVD it is MPEG-2?).

2) Scheduled TV recording so this becomes my PVR for TV recordings.

So what does my system look like as far as PC cards?

Sound card ( this along with the TV card gives me PVR recording capability)
TV card

Realmagic X-card or tview micro (gives me the video output needed no other video card needed? Also gives me the sound output connection to my CO-ax input to my receiver for DD5.1 playback and does not use the sound card at all for playback). Looks like these will allow me to use the component input on my TV is that correct and can be used in either 480I or 480P mode.

Is this correct or am I totally confused.

Also "global motion compensation" just learning divx is this something I can avoid so I don't have problems?

[Fozzee]

From:Fozzee

I recently changed from a Geforce2 to a Geforce4 and the difference in Tv-Out is amazing.

Now I know not to waste my time with my current geforce 2!!! Would really like to know which geforce 4 card worked well for you.

In answer to your question.........

It was the PNY Verto Geforce 4 TI4200 64MB

I bought this card for £99 in PC World UK.
Great card for gaming and has a good tv-out too.

Cheers

Fozzee

[vhelp]

just realised that my subject-line was a bit misleading.

Just wanted to clear things up a bit here on my subject..
* I was looking for a "software player" (not hardware player ie, dvd etc)
* and, the recommendation for tv-out cards, was ment for best "software player"
for playing through tv-out cards - I already the tv-out cards (see below)
But, please don't get me wrong, and continue as you all were, with you
great posts

So far, the following Software players have been tested on my ATIRFP
card, and IMO, quality goes with vdub (of all players) in order of best:
* vdub
* BSPlayer
* Zoomplayer
* PDVD 3.0
* WDVD 3.0


TV-OUT cards:
--------------
* ATIRFP (rage fur pro, agp) (composite out)
* Verto GeForce4 MX 440 64MB DDR RAM, agp by nVIDIA (s-video out)

At this time, I don't actually know how the Verto G4 card (above) tv-out
quality is like, since I have not ben able to test it yet on my 2nd PC.
I am hoping that it surpasses my ATIRFP cards' out, quality
Has anyone got this card ?? ...and can vouch for tv-out quality ??


My "software player" developing project, is going rather slowly, but I am
making some headway. My goal is to provide as good (or better) quality as
vdub's.
The Programming Language I'm using for this project is Delphi 6.
Things I'll most likely incorporate into this player (based on tipicle user
[myself] needs) will be:
* Widescreen: some form of, or variation of (or aspect ratio feature)
* WS: user adjustable for manual control
* IVTC: on-the-fly (if ever, but a few good thoughts have crossed my mind on this)
* Color: live brigtness control like WDVD's [-] ad [+] keys do
* Last Set: remember things like, window placement, size, color, template, etc.
* Sound: haven't thought much of this yet, but would like better than WAV
support, but I'm not up to this issue yet.
* Ideas: are jumping around like crazy, he, he...
* Other things to add to this list, but I can't think of everything all alone

For those who asked, if time, imagination, and what-not give's me the oportunity,
I'll leave some teaser screenshots at my website for you to..

So, basically, I haven't ben able to find that perfect "softare player" w/
good tv-out quality. And, as such, it looks like the old saying goes..
"..if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself" So, guess I'm
doing it myself

-vhelp

[crahak]

Ok, my rage fury pro works great for TV out (but it's real blurry as for captures). I also have a MSI GeForce4 Ti4200 VIVO, but the damn thing will not even detect my panasonic GAOO (using the s-video). I am extremely pissed at this card. It also slighly distorts the picture it captures (compared to the ATI), mind you, the picture is sharper. Have to get used to it still, crop, and resize to fix AR... Other cards by MSI might be better. Anyways, now I wish I went for a xcard... (I don't play games at all)

Oh. About GMC, I see it (myself) as better avoided.

As far as resolution and bitrates, it's like everything, it's a compromise, detail, blockiness, space and all the usual... People are so different and will like different settings...

[crahak]

Ok, figured I could also mention my radeon 7000 ve, works great. Have you tried anything else lately? So far, I'm mainly sticking to radlight still (there is a version without spyware btw...) And if you set the quality of the divx playback filter to high, it looks a lot like virtualdub's.

Anyways, I'm assuming you haven't called it quits with delphi yet. lol

Edit: I just looked into zoom player, and it very well might become my new player of choice...

[vhelp]

crahak,
I'm home today.
..having something installed in my PC today, he, he..., he, he...
can't wait.. finally, it's here, he, he.. hmmm, what could it be he, he...

Oh, right.. ah, no, i haven't tried any other sofplayer yet. At this
point, they ALL produce the same output quality on TV. You can def.
spot them artifacts. For some people, they can't see it, or ignore
it, but R NOT mentioning it when they say "quality is great" ..that IS
tipicle though.
Still, nothing compares to vdub's playback output quality. I've gone
as above the 720x mark, and love it even so. I think that MPEG1/2 have
different color space algorithems because when you stretch those for
TV viewing, you don't see color artifacts, but divX is a different
beast. Blocks are MORE noticable. You really have to be carefull
at your encoding settings, but also your source quaity too. Many
people here, w/ satalite especially, don't understand that their
source is running (what seems to becoming a standard now) through
a filter that deteriates the quality to some degree. It's
even bad when you watch it on your TV as is, but when you capture it,
its worse! And, add to that, when they have an already bad source
or pre-tainted source ie, StarTrek Enterprise, it makes them even
more worser (my word)
Satalite used to be the clearset and sharpest and color-rich when I
first got it +/- 4 years ago. Today, they taint it or filter'ise it.
I would fear to see what it would look like on a much larger screen,
say 27" or 32" or 60" or even those WS sets. Don't people see this
yet ?? Why haven't I heard anything about complaints and the likes ??
Well, anyways..

Delphi, no, I haven't called it quits on it. Never! I was working
w/ it lastnight. Its very difficult to creat those apps I trying
hard to create, because code snipplets are scarce, and everyone is
so tight-ass about sharing it. Anything ta do w/ Video and Sound, is
so tight-ass, you could crack a nut or too - know what I mean ?
But, lots more things are comming back to me w/ Delphi, the more I
work with it. TP 3.0 is what I started with, way back when. I would
NEVER go with C++ or any form of C. It's Delphi for me - the champ.

Zoomplayer, I did try this. i didn't like it. I also didn't like those
fake screen ratio's either. IMO, it didn't do much for my clips.
But, I only breafly tried it But, the quality was the same too,
as all the other players thus far.

No, I'm on ta something w/ vdub. I know I can develop a simple app
to just play AVI clips. Later, I could add things like Letterbox,
and IVTC and deal more w/ Sound and so on. But, for now, I just
need to figure out HOW to open an AVI and play it. No, don't bother
with the MediaPlayer control. That sucks big time, and it's VERY
slow. My divX clips choped like crazy. Didn't even have sound on
some. Way too much overhead in my opnion. I need something simpler
thant MediaPlayer control. So, I'm off on another wild ghoose chanse.

See you later.
-vhelp
----------------------------------------------
Happy HOLIDAY all.

[crahak]

Yeah, well, it's true that virtualdub plays nice, and I thought about it too. The source code is freely available, but then, you're more or less stuck using the same language, and being more of an A/V editing app than a player, well, it doesn't implement all the goodies we'd like to see in a player (directshow, audio stream switcher, right click menus, etc...) so it really would be quite limited as far as how much it would help. It is probably good enough to look at it and see how they manage to make it look so good (how they're resizing, displaying and such), but that's about it. But you'd still have to write a player, but any player with decent features (like zoom player) don't release their sources... So, since I just don't have time for this, it seems that I will have to stick to zoom player Either ways, it looks far better than VCD/SVCDs on my TV so (DVD's do look better, but I have no DVD-R yet, and I already have too many movies already burned into divx that I don't want to reencode and author and burn... No time for this, really.)

[vhelp]

crahak,
Yea, but the source code for vdub is C++ and I'm so not going their
w/ it.

>> well, it doesn't implement all the goodies we'd like to see in a >> player (directshow, audio stream switcher, right click menus, etc...)
I'm not sure what you ment by all this though.
If I could really spend the time, as a high scool student does
I could probably have come up with something already, but not in
school any mores - ages ago, and I have a job, and duties around the
house, and many other forms of entertainment and projects and so on.

Well, I'll keep at it some more.
-vhelp