NTSC - PAL format debate

[SingSing]

We can't have a debate over PAL and NTSC format. They are defined.

We rather work on facts. They are much more meaningful than debate.

[tearex]

You are working with analog signaling concepts. They don't apply here. The world has gone digital, and digital video and its technology already took off.

Huh? I was saying that the player works digitally inside and the color signal is created inside the player and not stored on the digital disk. You then reply that that doesn't apply because the player works digitally inside and the color signal is not stored on the digital disk. Plus some marketing department buzzwords like "the world has gone digital."

What am I missing here?

[SingSing]

The video information stays in the digital "format" all the way, Only at the end it get converted to Video "signal(s)" with Digital to Analog Converter.

There are quite a bit of information on the different between "Format" and "Signal" within this topics.

[Craig Tucker]

You are working with analog signaling concepts. They don't apply here. The world has gone digital, and digital video and its technology already took off.

Huh? I was saying that the player works digitally inside and the color signal is created inside the player and not stored on the digital disk. You then reply that that doesn't apply because the player works digitally inside and the color signal is not stored on the digital disk. Plus some marketing department buzzwords like "the world has gone digital."

What am I missing here?

Don't take it too personally, I dont think SingSings understanding of English is all that great, as is evident if you read the entire thread.

[SingSing]

The original reply to Linard post is to point out that it is important to pin point exactly when NTSC signal is generated in the DVD player. That connect to the important different between "format" and "signal".

Linard's reply about "work digitally inside" is a bit too global. Because on the whole, it is a Digital to Analog conversion. Both types of signals are generated and processed. "When" do things happened is important.

For example : I might insists the signal that all DVD players uses is analog. Because the laser pick-up is at fore-front of the signal chain, and it processes the optical signal ( analog ) with a sensor amplifier ( another Anlaog device ), before it get serperated into clock and serial data stream.

Detail can be boring. Working on concept level, is normal good enough for a consumer product that we intend to buy, and not built it ourselves.

[mats.hogberg]

Keep this thread going - it's hilarious!

/Mats

[SingSing]

We all come from different professions and background. It is not always possible to explain concepts to other.

Obviously, I can't debate. By my professional requirement, I am only expect to delivery result, with full independent verification.

We just want to watch movie, right ? Do we have to start a topics to debate this concept ?

[tearex]

For example : I might insists the signal that all DVD players uses is analog. Because the laser pick-up is at fore-front of the signal chain, and it processes the optical signal ( analog ) with a sensor amplifier ( another Anlaog device ), before it get serperated into clock and serial data stream.

Detail can be boring. Working on concept level, is normal good enough for a consumer product that we intend to buy, and not built it ourselves.

Well, fair enough. Of course nothing is digital on the physical level. "Digital" is one of a number of mental concepts to describe the "meaning" of things happening in the harware - talking about what it means, not what it physically "is".

I think we basically agree, you just went down to the nitty-gritty detail more than I did.

Maybe we need a philosophy forum on vcdhelp.com

Bye,

[SingSing]

You understand multi-system TV and VCR very well. Their electronics are close kin to how VCR work. VCR playbacks the video signal faithfully as it is recorded on the helical drum. The actual NTSC or PAL signal is actually generated, and thus all the conversion and post signal processing ( on the TV side too ). They are popular where you are because you need/want it.

US consumers nearly all use NTSC only systems. It can be attributed to Volume is everythings, we don't like/handle the complexity, Too many Holloywood movies already... .

DVD information is in mpeg and, they are not rigid, as broadcast signal. DVD players have nearly all digital circuits and they are not rigid, as VCR circuitry. These digital natures produced multi-format players with NTSC output, without additional cost.

This is (good) New(s) to us, and we would like to work with it.

I visited Asia, and many of their 27" or bigger TV are PAL only. There should be a few multi-format PAL output only players that can play NTSC/NTSC FLIM/PAL VCD and DVD out there.

[vitualis]

Let us get back to the point so that any beginner's undoubtedly confused can get back on track.

If you have NTSC only equipment, you will not be able to play back PAL discs.

To do so you need either:
(1) A DVD player that will do PAL --> NTSC conversion (i.e., will convert and output PAL material as an NTSC signal) OR
(2) A multisystems capable TV (i.e., a TV that can display both NTSC and PAL natively).

Regards.

[yg1968]

70 replies later, we are back at the same answer...

[vitualis]

Really, was there any other?

There is no debate. Fact is fact (and for the mind-boggling disbelievers, completely testable). SingSing as usually has gone into completely irrelevant trivialities.

The only PAL <--> NTSC conversion that COUNTS is:
(1) Format ONE is on the disc
(2) The analogue video signal that comes OUT of the player is in Format TWO (and gives a reasonable picture).

The only "mulitsystems-capable" TV that COUNTS is:
(1) NTSC video signal IN --> reasonable picture AND
(2) PAL video signal IN --> reasonable picture

Regards.

[yg1968]

You are right. Although I guess that SingSing's point is that there is no actual PAL to NTSC conversion going on. The DVD players reads the PAL DVD in a digital format (mpeg-2) and converts it directly into an NTSC analog one. So the DVD player doesn't bother converting to a PAL analog signal. It just outputs the DVD as if it were an NTSC one. But like I said before, only a handful of North American DVD players can do this. These DVD players are usually manufactured in China and have more in common with DVD-ROMs than video equipment (which probably explains their versatility).

Anyways, here is a link to an explanation on NTSC and on PAL vs NTSC DVDs:

http://www.seanet.com/Users/bradford/ntscvideo.html

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/PALvsNTSC/PALvsNTSC.asp